C++ and Microsoft Visual Studio 2008

[Moorea]

http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/s...sidered-stupid

What a long factless baseless rant. you wrote it ?

For a more useful, balanced discussion about singletons, check http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?SingletonPattern

[magwo]

No I did not write it.

Thing is, without a doubt.. stateful singletons cause severe coderot. I've witnessed this so many times.
They're not evil in themselves - it's the global access to a modifiable state that makes them break programs.

[samuraicow]

Morning all

Good news! My best friend wants to learn programing with me .

Only issue is that he never programed a day in his life, well not beyond HTML (and even that for only short term) so I think learning Common Lisp while not following any book is a bit to much for him, and well lets go with the questions:
Is C Programming Language (2nd Edition) byBrian W. Kernighan (Author), Dennis M. Ritchie (Author) good for first timer? I suspect that it isn't (due to reviews on amazon saying so) the best I was able to come up with is:

He will begin with:
1. C++ Without Fear
2. Practical C++ Programming
3. Programming Pearls
4. The C++ Programming Language: Special Edition (3rd Edition)


While I'll do:
1. Practical Common Lisp
2. C Programming Language (2nd Edition)
3. The C++ Programming Language: Special Edition (3rd Edition)


And then we will do:
1. Effective C++ : 55 Specific Ways to Improve Your Programs and Designs
2. More Effective C++: 35 New Ways to Improve Your Programs and Designs
3. Programming: Principles and Practice Using C++
4. Code Complete: A Practical Handbook of Software Construction
5. Debugging Applications for Microsoft® .NET and Microsoft Windows


Sounds about right, doesn't it ?

[Jafula]

Wow, if you two read all those books, I'll be impressed!

IMHO: You should have an idea of what you want to program as well. I've found learning programming much easier to learn when I have a specific project or task I want to complete.

Also, I think you can spend a lot of time worrying about the "right" way to write code; e.g. the posts discussing singletons above. Try and get your first project working and "finished" before you worry too much about the state of the code.

Good luck in your programming adventures; especially with (((Lisp))(which)(I)(never)(really liked))))...

[Freddie]

I agree with Jafula. The most important ingredient for learning to program is wanting to write some program or other. It has to be fun to write the next program. You can't map that out in advance, especially not for your friend who has never tried this stuff before and has no idea what will or won't be fun.

I would just pick a starting point, i.e., pick one book and one language. See how it goes. See what's fun. Be adaptable.

As long as there's some next program (however large or smalll) you're eager to start writing, you will probably become proficient programmers. But if that isn't true, you won't.

What if it's apparent by the second day that your friend just doesn't like Lisp? What if it's apparent that C is too hard for him to start with?

Maybe your friend will love Ruby or Python.

[samuraicow]

"Life is what happens while you make plans"
"Plans are the base for changes"
"I LIKE PIE" ermm ops wrong post, ANY HOW, you cant know how things will end up like, you can chose how you would like to see them go but life do there on thing.

I like battle plans, this is my battle plan, if something should happen that I didn't foresee, I will make a counter plan, don't wary

Scenario :
Friend hate the living crap of it: to bad > I borrow his books and forget to return them ^_^. (the beginner ones I didn't get for myself)
Friend falls in love with Java: > I show him the way here or some other board and tell him to go ask about how should he go about it, while he is already doing it =p
Enraged old god C'tun starts what is later to be know "The war of the shifting sand" > I QQ about AQ40 gear being so OP.

Shit happens =p


Plus: Its just nine books and I got a "year to kill", and its also not much by definition: it passes the 3 laws of "not to many books":
1) You cant count it on your fingers (9).
2) While placed together the books doesn't sustain one meter of pages.
3) You can lift them all together at simultaneously, alone, without the help of any external device or person, while not abusing terrain in your or against your favor.


=p


Hey look I am tired and talk funny! *gos to sleep* GN ya all

[magwo]

Good luck and have fun programming!

[samuraicow]

Well guys Here is an update ^________^




To bad that I didn't realize that had a IRL edition ._., ya well web edition will do =p


Thanks all

"Even the biggest journeys begins with one small step" - LOTR orsomthing >_<

[thinus]

C Programming Language (2nd Edition) by[/url]Brian W. Kernighan (Author), Dennis M. Ritchie (Author) good for first timer? I suspect that it isn't (due to reviews on amazon saying so) the best I was able to come up with is:

He will begin with:
1. C++ Without Fear
2. Practical C++ Programming
3. Programming Pearls
4. The C++ Programming Language: Special Edition (3rd Edition)


While I'll do:
1. Practical Common Lisp
2. C Programming Language (2nd Edition)
3. The C++ Programming Language: Special Edition (3rd Edition)


And then we will do:
1. Effective C++ : 55 Specific Ways to Improve Your Programs and Designs
2. More Effective C++: 35 New Ways to Improve Your Programs and Designs
3. Programming: Principles and Practice Using C++
4. Code Complete: A Practical Handbook of Software Construction
5. Debugging Applications for Microsoft® .NET and Microsoft Windows


Sounds about right, doesn't it ?

Uhm....

I find it very difficult to learn a programming language out of a book.

My suggestion:
- Decide on a project or a few projects that you would like to develop.
- Design some forms/windows/web pages in the visual designer to get a feel for how things should look.
- Think about the kind of data/objects you will need.

At this point you start coding for the first time. So lets say one of your projects is to have a little "My Dear Diary" application. You can click it, it pops up an editor, you type some text and hit save. It also needs a way to browse/view/edit old entries. So first of you will need a Diary Entry object that contains the text you entered. You also need a container for all your Diary Entry objects.

Now you go to the books and read up on how to create a class/object for your Diary Entry and how to add a text property. Next is how do we edit the text? When you get a basic Diary Entry class written then you need to do the container and your books should have chapters on containers and how they work. Once this is done you start to hook this up to a GUI.

Personally I wouldn't bother with C or LISP. If your end goal is C++ then start with classes/objects. A lot of the terms thrown around won't mean much to you but as you start coding it will make more sense over time. Any code monkey can go into a visual editor and throw together a crappy application. If you are seriously considering software development as a career then you need to learn how to take a bunch of requirements and transform it into a functional design. This is a crucial skill, some of it is raw talent, some of it can be learned and some of it just comes with experience. Once you learn how to create good functional designs the language you choose to implement it in just becomes semantics. Basing your design and thinking about things in terms of objects, classes and interfaces is something I would suggest you focus on.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Heh, nice brain stack there.

My only general suggestion after doing quite a bit of hobby code and watching the pros do it at my last job is this: COMMENT EVERYTHING. No, really. Just a quick "in layman's terms" comment that explains the gist of what this line is doing and more detailed comments in the headers/constructors/etc. will make you so happy later on when you're tired and can't remember what that one damn line was supposed to be doing. It's easy to get lazy but it costs you in the end. This is even more important when you're learning. If I'm writing something and come across an example on a website, I'll usually include the URL in the comments, too.

Best of luck with your journey!