10-man Raid - Considering Alternative Specs

[nomenquis]

Don't give up on the ret pally idea too soon

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....73950732&sid=1

I'll most likely do that. Fights I've seen/done so far I really regret the dps I'm losing (My MT is the DK). He ots very little really and since he has very good tanking gear I really believe the raid will profit from it. Kings is also coming as default to all Paladins in 3.1. I'm really inclined to do so for next week raids. This week I'm trying to down some new bosses and confirm the others.

This thread on the wow forums is about ret as a second tank, not ret as a main tank. I assumed that the ret pala would be the mt for the poster. Imo ret should be able to ot most stuff fine, however I'd rather have the ret mt patch (hs tank gets hit a lot more) and perhaps kel adds might get interesting.

kind regards

[wowphreak]

Don't give up on the ret pally idea too soon

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....73950732&sid=1

I'll most likely do that. Fights I've seen/done so far I really regret the dps I'm losing (My MT is the DK). He ots very little really and since he has very good tanking gear I really believe the raid will profit from it. Kings is also coming as default to all Paladins in 3.1. I'm really inclined to do so for next week raids. This week I'm trying to down some new bosses and confirm the others.

This thread on the wow forums is about ret as a second tank, not ret as a main tank. I assumed that the ret pala would be the mt for the poster. Imo ret should be able to ot most stuff fine, however I'd rather have the ret mt patch (hs tank gets hit a lot more) and perhaps kel adds might get interesting.

kind regards

Link doesn't seem to work properly


Bigfish: The only way yer gonna be able to get away with going ret with the pali is if he's already overgeared or just off tanking.
There just to many nice abilities in the prot tree that helps with surviving.

Think yeh would be better off having 2 dedicated healers untill yeh have what ever yer running on farm.
Also think setting em up as offhealers that dps and they will go oom to fast.

[Bigfish]

Well, I've tried it out, and I must say, it works better than I expected. In Ret tanking, my tank becomes an aboslutely beastly DPS in addition to holding aggro like a champion. Granted, I only cleared some trash in Naxx to get a feel for incoming damage (which only applies to Trash), but with a full healer and 2 off healers, its mostly a matter of fine tuning their HPS.

My only real conflict came in the form of how my Druid is specced. His damage is, at best, minimal, but the 3% spell hit he brought was somewhat important. On the other hand, I'm missing the hit-it-and-forget-it group heal from Wild Growth, so I expect I'll spec him back in to tree form and stack a few more points of hit on the casters that need it. The only catch is I'm going to have to do some serious regearing of my Priest and Shaman.

[Bigfish]

So Basically, my set up has moved from having a Shadow Priest and a Resto Shaman to a Holy Priest and an Elemental Shaman. Elemental Shamans are like freaking candy. Can't get enough. I did lose Replenishment from the Shadow Priest, but gaining it from my Ret Speced Pally tank, has made up for it, as well as giving me 3% haste across the board. The holy priest still needs some work, but I'm sure he'll do much better group healing than the Shaman, who did Ok, but had issues when it came to the whole group taking damage. (He still healed through fine on melee AOEs)

As far as raid wide buffs go, I've gained 5% spell Crit, 3% haste (basically a Boomkin without the boomkin) at a loss of 3% spell hit, and the shaman is much better at maintaining his damage than the Shadow Priest who had to wind up and build DoTs, and I was clipping his Mind Flays as well. In their previous spec gear, I was still pulling 2k more damage raid wide as well. It will be interesting to see how much that can get upped with some proper gearing.

I did end up speccing my druid back to Resto. I just lost too much healing power to really justify some DoT damage and 3% spell hit. Granted, I REALLY miss that hit, but I missed the healing even more.

I fully expect Ret tanking to catch on once Dual Specs come out. Its just crazy how much extra damage it brings for a relatively minor drop in Survivability. That survivability may be key in some fights, and I need to explore that more, but right now, I'm still impressed.

[rulemaker]

well your idea of Ret tanking sounds really interesting!

how did you specced your "new" tank?

[Bigfish]

Check Brightforge on Shadow Council if you want to see the gear and spec.

A couple of things I've noticed over the course of the weekend: This is a far superior out-and-about spec. Where as me previous Prot spec would be sitting OOM most of the time (not that important when you have a posse following you, but still...), now if I open with a Judgement I generally stay near full mana, or at least operable.

As far as damage goes, I've come to realize this is a very particular spec that won't work for everyone. Why? Because you need all your melee raid buffs before this spec really starts spitting out damage. Given boxers tendency to go with caster heavy group compositions, prot will generally be the better way to go.

That said, until I've taken down Archavon and Noth tomorrow, the biggest thing I've killed is Thrym in Zul'drak. (600k HP, hits for 3-4k) I don't anticipate any problems, but we'll see.

Edit: Oddly enough, you can even use a near 969 rotation with this:

/castsequence reset=combat Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Consecration, Shield of Righteousness, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Shield of Righteousness, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Shield of Righteousness

[KvdM]

Check Brightforge on Shadow Council if you want to see the gear and spec.

With 21k health it might become a very rought ride vs some of the naxx bosses, but let us know how well it goes.

[puppychow]

Let us know how it works, my Pally tank is in 4/5 T7.5 and 31k hp unbuffed and i'd be interested in hearing the results. I'm guessing bosses are going to give you significant problems, since they hit a LOT harder than trash (patchwerk hits me in heroic mode for 15-20k swings). Also threat is an issue many times, I barely am able to outthreat geared DPS in the first 20 seconds of a fight (after that it is a lot easier), I suspect as ret you are going to notice that your DPS classes easily pull off you on longer fights.

[Bigfish]

HP is a bit low since I don't have the Stamina boost from the prot talents I previously did, but at the same time, I haven't had much time, (or incentive) to regear, and truthfully, its on the back burner until I finish regearing my priest and shaman, and at this point, its just a matter of swapping out a bit of avoidance for Stamina. (By my estimates, 28k after buffs is about where I SHOULD be, which has me still a bit low, but nothing I've fought has hit hard enough for me to think those last 2k are going to make a difference. This may change in the future)

How hard Heroic Patch hits doesn't affect me at all. since I have no intention of ever fighting him. My previous 10-man Patch attempts HP wasn't an issue either, its my healer endurance. If it comes up, it comes up, and that's all well and good. Its a quick Re-spec away. When 3.1 hits it will matter even less.

[Bigfish]

I was wrong. Way too much mitigation in Prot to trade off for the DPS in Ret.