WoW Loot Generation

[Blokus]

This probably falls under the categories of Unknowable and Who Cares, but I think its interesting, even if just for speculation.

My question is ...

Is the loot dropped by a mob generated when it spawns or when its killed?

If its generated at the time the mob spawns, then its basically static. But if it is generated at the time of the kill, that would theoretically give the server the opportunity to base the drop on conditions at the time.

One such condition might be how many people are in the party when a mob is killed and would it tend to be more "generous" to a larger group. If that were so, then multiboxers have a bit of an advantage on loot drops because we are always grouped.

Whatever, just a random thought to kick around on a lazy Friday afternoon.

[amalgam]

This has been debated since release. I've never seen a definitive answer on the subject. I think it'd be easier server-side to decide loot at kill, but that's not saying much since I am not a dev.

[Boom]

While Blizzard has never given us the details on loot drops (as far as I know), they did however tell us that the loot on the bosses in instances like Molten Core are determined at spawn of the instance.

I would make an educated guess and tell you the mob's loot is determined when it spawns. It wouldn't make much sence to put in a separate process for mobs outside an instance, then in.

Everytime anyone has tried to put "rules" to the random loot system, eventually a Dev would come out and say "sorry, when we say it's random, it's random".

They pointed out that with so many people running the same game, a true random system (as they claim this is) will eventually give seemingly crazy results. One guild on our server ran MC for over a year, and NEVER saw the Might Pants.... EVER. That's random.

So I'd guess the loot is determined when the mob spawns, as a "random" system would have no need to determine it later.

Interesting thought though... Anyone have any information I don't?

Boom

[amalgam]

I would support this theroy. It seems that I'm getting way more green drops in my quad group than a did solo. However, is this beacuse:

a) The above theory is correct, and groups just tend to get more loot
b) I'm just killing way faster so it feels like more
c) There are much fewer people in Azeroth post-BC, so the competition for drops is much lower

Actually, I think they buffed the drop rate for items in 2.3 when they re-evaluated a lot of old green items. On my 54 Mage AoE grinding (alone) the pirates in Tanaris, I got two Wirt's Third Legs, two Assault Bands, a Witchblade (I think that's what it's called) and numerous (read: 45 or 50) greens. I killed approximately 650 of them. This is combined with all the cloth and money.

EDIT:

@Boom: I know that the reason they generate loot at spawn of an instance ties in to the RAIDID numbering system. When that system was first introduced, there were numerous people doing tests to determine if they could predict loot patterns based on the number. My guess would be that the system uses the RAIDID in a rand() fashion in categorized loot tables. I say categorized because of Badge and token drops: you want to guarantee at least one T4 token, but the TYPE of that token may be random.

However, no such RAIDID system exists visibly to players for mobs outside instance or even for normal 5-mans. I imagine that there is a simpler version instituted for instances, but this system is rather difficult to implement in outworld mobs.

On top of this, add in the fact that spawning mobs with loot would add a fair amount of overhead considering the raw number of mobs available to be killed at any moment across an entire realm. My guess would actually be a roll-based system that draws a distinction based on creature type (i.e.: Humanoids drop cloth, beasts do not) and generates loot from a table of drops. The table generates less overhead in the long run.

[Blokus]

Yeah, I can go with the idea ... and statement by Blizzard ... that it's all purely random and that the sheer volume of activity in the game and the percentages involved makes it work out fine. Kind of like the way casinos make money ... volume and percentages in their favor over the long run overcomes any short term lucky spikes by the players.

I've always wondered if there might be some quota on something like World Epic drops. But likely not as the random thing should work fine to control that.

[Zaelar]

Diablo 2 drops were determined on spawn. Not saying it's the same here.

Once the world is spawned, as far as how much it takes out of the server is concerned, it doesn't matter whether loot is determined at spawn or kill. Everything that is killed gets respawned, so it either determines the loot at the kill or the spawn. The only extra is what isn't killed. A problem with generating at kill is it needs to be generated right away. If it is at spawn, you can just delay the spawn without much problem.

[stompershock]

I used to farm sm library for a couple months for gold when almost a year and half ago. I tell you some things i found about the loot system.

elites carry more "spot" holders, or tumblers for higher loot table. if you ever farm elites your backpack files up way faster than regular mobs, this might be because its assumed you are in a group and need more loot, makes sense. at least 50% of elites carry a grey or higher, regular mobs maybe 1/10. by grey i mean like grey crappy weapon, not cloth.

these things happened like clockwork:

3 greens/hour
1 blue/8 hours

I kept emmaculate records because thats just what i do, to figure out g/hour and drops.

no epics in sm library so no time table on those.

obviously i was killing mobs at x/hour, that i did not keep track of, so you can assume that if you killed more your odds were going to increase.

on another note, rogue pickpocket, they can steal the gold from a mob, since gold is random, not a fixed amount per mob but rather in a range, you could assume that the loot is determined at spawn because otherwise the rogue couldn't pickpocket anything

[stompershock]

figured i would highlight something that might not have been obvious in the last post.

I believe that item value, ie, green/blue/purple is a fixed %, but they pull from a loot table that generates item, after value is determined, randomly.

does that make sense?

[kayb]

I believe loot is generated as you right click the object. It's the only way I can explain looting empty chests for instance. Also see it sometimes with mobs. You loot it, but then there's nothing there. Sometimes empty mobs get the loot sparkle and you can loot them, other times they dont get the sparkle, and you cant loot it because it's empty.

Anyway...this is guesswork.

[Wilbur]

Heh, there are several theorys as to how loot drops. Although there are somethings we do *know* For certain.

All monsters access the "global" loot table for their level range.
There are Zone or Instance specific loot tables.
There are loot tables for individual players (E.G how one item can be looted by several players)
There are mob specific loot tables.

I'd theorise that these loot tables are determind at diffrent times.

Global Loot table is most likely upon mob spawn.
Zone/Instance table is most likely the same.
Player Loot tables are determined upon looting.
Mob specific loot tables are upon mob spawn.

This is, of course, conjecture and some observation.