Will Ulduar Be The End of Multibox Friendly Raiding?

[weeep]

Thaddius(25) is very easy with individual strafe keys for each char.

Sorry, I don't believe that you can do Thad25 without all other raid members seriously outgearing the encounter.

[Kaynin]

Thaddius(25) is very easy with individual strafe keys for each char.

Sorry, I don't believe that you can do Thad25 without all other raid members seriously outgearing the encounter.

Is thaddius an easy fight on 25 man? No. It requires 80k+ raid DPS.
Does multiboxing make it a much harder fight? No. It just requires setting up some macro's/movement keys and a addon that makes it easy to point out which of your chars have a charge change.

The average dps a dps'er needs to bring is about 4200 if I am not mistaken.
I can reach 5k+ dps pretty easily since 3.0.8.
Before 3.0.8 I was doing 3500ish, which, granted, wasn't enough and needed other raid members to compensate, however was that due to multiboxing? No, it was due to elemental dps being shit. :P

[puppychow]

My guild has Sarth 3 drakes (10 and 25) on farm now, I do think it'll be doable as a multiboxer but only as a DPSer -- no way you could control tanking, DPS, and healing it. The hardest parts of the fight are the tank/healers jobs, DPS just has to move out of void zones (strafe ftw), avoid lava walls (follow ftw), and DPS the right targets, and take portals at the right times (drake 3).

imo healing multibox is actually one of the hardest, unless you control 2-3 guys who are just spamming the MT, because target selection is a huge part of healing. Just spamming CoH/PoH/chain-heal-on-self is not a great healing strat and fails in many encounters. When I play my resto shaman I usually am #1 on heal meters and I use Grid/Clique, and probably make 10-15 "heal decisions" a minute, don't really see how you could effectively do that as a multiboxer. Of course boxing a healer who spams heals on the MT works great while your other guys DPS.

[Kaynin]

I think sartharion 3 drakes will be near impossible or at least very very hard for a boxer of more then 5 characters, simply because even if you have all dps and healers on follow, you would constantly get the void circles on top of your party. Maybe some day when we far outgear (or outlevel) the instance. :P

But then again, it's a fight most guilds won't be able to do. It's a prestige encounter.

But take 10-boxing with one drake up (shadron if you got a DK tank) will be doable imo. The problem I see arising with multiple drakes up is that you're running from the void zones too much to be able to deliver the dps required for anything more then one drake up. Only one drake up will allow you a lot more time though. Having druid and priests as healers would help too here. If you 10-box solely with holydins, you can probably forget it. Need instant healing and hots to heal-box sartharion with drakes up (due to the amount of movement required).

[puppychow]

Btw Thaddius25 has 30 million HP and a 6 minute (360 second) enrage timer, which means you need 83.3k raid DPS. if you take 6 healers and 2 tanks, that leaves 17 DPS, each of who needs to do 4900 dps to beat his enrage timer (if you have 7 healers and 3 tanks, you need 5555 dps from the 15 dpsers). The stacking buff increases your damage quite a bit (10 stack is +100% dmg, so if everyone stacked you'd only need 2450 "personal" dps pre-buff). Even in my guild, which has 10 man Undying achieve and 3drakes25, we still lose 4-5 people every Thaddius25 fight (lag, not paying attention, etc) so that makes it even tougher. Also the DPS numbers are a bit misleading, since every 30 seconds a ton of people are moving around due to polarity shift and doing no damage, which means there is 10 secs every minute of "dead time".

[Kaynin]

we still lose 4-5 people every Thaddius25 fight (lag, not paying attention, etc)

That's your guilds problem, not the encounters problem. :P

The point was that thaddius 25 man is easily multiboxable. Despite I've only ever pugged 25 mans (without much or any problems, most raid pugs are about 90-100k dps on thaddius on my server) I did say Thaddius itself is a pretty tough encounter. I just said multiboxing doesn't overcomplicate the encounter if you just take the time to set up properly for it. :P

[Bigfish]

I try not to argue what is theoretically impossible, just because someone may just turn around and do it.

I did a 10 man Archavon this week with my team and it was cake. All you really got to do is watch your team when he jumps to them. Make sure you stand with your backs to a wall so you don't fly too far away or have your chars turned alot. If your MT'ing just make sure if that happens you round them up again or turn them at least and bring boss back in range. Pretty easy but you just gotta watch.

See, thing is, I'm not running a tank, 4 shamans, and 5 other people. I'm controlling all 10. 1 of each class. Suffice it to say, its not a matter of me pulling my DPS weight and keeping an eye where I'm standing while everyone else handles the details. The details get you killed.

In short, I have to:

Keep my 6 ranged classes spread out but in range, and mobile in case of a cloud.
Keep my MTs back to a wall.
Hold Aggro with the off tank when MT gets picked up.
Keep the OT positioned correctly so the MT gets thrown at a wall and not across the room.
Switch back to the MT when aggro wipes from the throw.
Keep everyone healed, which can be really difficult with how quickly the boss switches targets.

10 boxing is an entirely different beast from 5 boxing.

[puppychow]

fwiw I've been in a raid on the PTR (solo on my mage) and I think its definitely a step up from naxx in terms of difficulty. I'm not going to ruin anything since its fun to experience new fights for the first time, but there are fights where mobility is huge (think KelThuzad supercrazy mode), one fight has you split up the raid similar to Gothik, etc. So far none of the bosses are anywhere near what I'd call tank'n'spank level of challenge. Which is great, it'll definitely be fun playing solo, lots of "rubber bands" to tweak the difficulty as your raid sees fit (the harder you make it, the better the loot). Don't wanna say either it'll be impossible to multibox, since I don't think it will, but you definitely will find it hard!

Mana/Totem springs still haven't been combined, hope they haven't forgotten that the lust nerf kind of hurts, since most boss fights are currently in the 6-10 minute range, you only get 1 lust now though per boss try (but it is available faster if you wipe!).

[Iceorbz]

Btw Thaddius25 has 30 million HP and a 6 minute (360 second) enrage timer, which means you need 83.3k raid DPS. if you take 6 healers and 2 tanks, that leaves 17 DPS, each of who needs to do 4900 dps to beat his enrage timer (if you have 7 healers and 3 tanks, you need 5555 dps from the 15 dpsers). The stacking buff increases your damage quite a bit (10 stack is +100% dmg, so if everyone stacked you'd only need 2450 "personal" dps pre-buff). Even in my guild, which has 10 man Undying achieve and 3drakes25, we still lose 4-5 people every Thaddius25 fight (lag, not paying attention, etc) so that makes it even tougher. Also the DPS numbers are a bit misleading, since every 30 seconds a ton of people are moving around due to polarity shift and doing no damage, which means there is 10 secs every minute of "dead time".

This is exactly why you *CAN* Do it multiboxed. Put 2 guys on the ledges before they jump @ corners to DPS. Then you can just work with 2 guys using charges, not to hard really . If its still to difficult move the 3rd out.. hes still putting out dps during changes and everything else so you really only lose a small portion.

And who does naxx with 6 healers ? we usualy run 5 max, 3 protection spec tanks, but we are getting away from that and doing 2 prot tanks and one dps spec / prot gear.