Quote Originally Posted by Hippieman
Sunder can still be a better opener, seeing as it uses less rage, however you only use it once, from there it's devestate all the way (excpet for applying sunders on sheeped targets, that is).
Both are 12 rage. Both get reduced by the talent. I don't see any reason you would ever want to open without doing damage... besides, for threat gen Shield Slam is your opener, assuming you have rage from bloodrage, charge, or just from getting smacked... much better threat.

But I'll stop posting now as I dont want to derail.