1 Pally + 4 Shamans - ready for WOTLK heros?

[Bigfish]

Totally agree. I tried incorporating a warlock for a few weeks, and I just couldn't get a macro I was happy with, or DPS I was happy with.

I don't think you're going to get good DPS out of an affliction lock on anything but bosses. Or if you can live with just 10% you can do Destro or Demo, but I think you just end up with the same problem. Kinda sucks if you're giving attention to an individual lock or if they are your only character, but I've found it to be enough of an incentive to include them in my 10 man without regret.

Won't work without using 3rd party software (keyclone round robin feature).

You can't target and enemy and yourself in the same macro.

You can do it using /click. I haven't tried to do it lately, but I would surmise a macro that clicked two buttons, one a staggered heal button, the other a DPS button, you could achieve the same affect. That's how I have my decurse macro set up, anyway, and it works fine.

[Bigfish]

Its built in. I've done it with no mods, because I hate updating the things every time a patch is released.

[BobGnarly]

I don't think it's as easy as comparing buffs. There are a lot less tangible things that can be just as important.

An example would be, with a paladin, you have a ton more mana regen on your shaman. This not only let's me exclude certain regen talents in favor of more dps oriented ones, but it can also affect my gear choices in the same way. This could mean that the shaman can DPS harder (before buffs) and for longer, which could equal the difference EP brings. I'm not saying it does or doesn't, just pointing out how it's not so clear cut, at least to me.

I also think crusader aura, and HoF and things that won't necessarily increase your DPS are definitely worth something. I find myself often choosing to favor things that other people discard because it doesn't impact the bottom line though, so I'm probably just weird that way.

[Hachoo]

[quote='BobGnarly',index.php?page=Thread&postID=175 689#post175689]I don't think it's as easy as comparing buffs. There are a lot less tangible things that can be just as important.

An example would be, with a paladin, you have a ton more mana regen on your shaman. This not only let's me exclude certain regen talents in favor of more dps oriented ones, but it can also affect my gear choices in the same way. This could mean that the shaman can DPS harder (before buffs) and for longer, which could equal the difference EP brings. I'm not saying it does or doesn't, just pointing out how it's not so clear cut, at least to me.

I also think crusader aura, and HoF and things that won't necessarily increase your DPS are definitely worth something. I find myself often choosing to favor things that other people discard because it doesn't impact the bottom line though, so I'm probably just weird that way. [/quote]All your points about damage/regen can be counteracted. Besides the fact that my 4 shamans will stay at 100% mana most of an instance, theres no way saving 3 talent points will give your shamans 13% extra damage each Paladins are definitely good, DKs are good, and I think the general train of thought right now is with 4 shaman teams, DKs are much much better. Pre-WotLK it might not have been the case because mana regen mattered, threat mattered, etc. In WotLK heroics are pretty easy anyway and the only thing that matters is pumping out as much damage as possible as quickly as possible.

Aside from that you'll find [b]many[/b] examples on this forum of people giving up their paladin tanks for DK tanks but I have yet to see someone give up a DK tank for a Paladin tank.

For me, having the DK is just a given and I have no desire to play a Paladin. Video proof of DKs being awesome tanks for 4 shamans:

[url]http://www.vonderbecke.net/files/wow/movies/Hachoo-HGundrak-Bosses.wmv[/url]

[url]http://www.vonderbecke.net/files/wow/movies/Hachoo-HDTK-Bosses.wmv[/url]

[url='http://www.vonderbecke.net/files/wow/movies/Hachoo-TimedCoS-music.avi']http://www.vonderbecke.net/files/wow/movies/Hachoo-TimedCoS-music.avi[/url]