What parts of mouse broadcasting are allowed

[Septimous]

We clearly now know broadcasting predefined x,y coordinates is not allowed. Theoretically, this would allow you to move the mouse to sections of the screen faster than a human hand could, which is definitely an exploit.

However, let's say the cloning only allowed relative movement based on screen size scaling and mouse clicks, would that be ok? For instance I have 5 WoW's (of varying resolutions), 5 Mages, one computer. All the mages have the same camera view. I hit my key bind for Blizzard, which initiates the area selection. Then I move the mouse to the correct location on my main's screen and hold down some special key(s) like ctrl and alt and then click the left click mouse button. The broadcasting program knows that when I do ctrl->alt->mouse click to broadcast that click to relative positions based on resolution to all the other instances.

I don't see this giving any advantages beyond what is normally humanly possible and happens to be similar to some of the hardware solutions for mouse movement.

Is this type of functionality within the ToS, if so, do any existing tools already do this?

[olipcs]

If it is within the ToS only Blizzard can answer, and they seem to be a little bit general in their answers (see: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....01104439&sid=1 )

My personal opinion on this is, that your scenario should be ok, but as I said this is only my opinion (and nothing worth therefor).
One question which could be discussed is if the moving + pressing a click is aganst/or in the "one action per user initiated action"-rule, or if it is seen as two different action and therefor should be done in two seperate actions (what also would be doable).

As your asking if there tools which actualy do the scenario you described:
-Yes there are (HKN, IS, Keyclone (although keyclone requires one click per client, i think) are the ones I know ).

-Are this tools 'official approved' for mouse-broadcasting? - I don't think so (or at least I don't know, maybe someone has some blue qoutes?)!
(I think HKN and IS will never get an general state of approval, because in both of them it all depends on the user and the features he is using if its ok or not. And keyclone did get a general 'ok', but i don't know which version explicit this regarded, and if the mouse-broadcasting where in them)

- Why aren't this tools also a 'discussion-no-go' because thei might be (partly) against the ToS ?
-Because non of their authores advertises them as 'safe' and 'blizzard-approved' in regards to mouse-broadcasting, and all of them say very clearly what functionality of their tools can be used in WoW and what not (the later part is more relevant for HKN and IS).

Would I like to get 'closure' from blizzard about mouse-broadcasting in general?
-Yes I would, and I tried to get an response (see: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....01104439&sid=1 ), but the response I got was not realy a 'Yes' or 'no', so maybe someone with more credibility may ask in the American forums again...

..just my 2 cents

[Freddie]

Septimous could you please explain what you meant by "I hit my key bind for Blizzard, which initiates the area selection." This is probably obvious to everyone but I don't play WoW.

[Freddie]

One question which could be discussed is if the moving + pressing a click is aganst/or in the "one action per user initiated action"-rule, or if it is seen as two different action and therefor should be done in two seperate actions (what also would be doable).

I think "one action" means one in-game action. It doesn't refer to your hand motions. It refers to things that happen in the game. And it's defined as "whatever game actions can be bound to a single keypress with the WoW client by itself." So actually "one action," depending on your key binds, can mean more than one in-game command because the WoW client allows you to bind more than one in-game command to a single key press or button click.

Basically I think Blizzard's rule is very simple. The idea is, if you can do something with the WoW client by itself in a single window with a single mouse input or single keypress, then you can use a third party program to do the same thing in multiple windows simultaneously with a single mouse input or single keypress.

[Tonuss]

I think that if you could clone mouse movement and button presses from one primary window onto one or more secondary window, this would be allowed. "One action per character, initiated by the player" is their stance. Especially since you'd need to do some prior setup (camera settings, for instance) and would still be subject to the limitations of doing this (pointer drift, the camera being affected by the environment, etc).

I think the reason that blue gave Mouseclone a thumbs-down in the second topic (which explained the program's functionality more clearly) is because the part where you would have to move the mouse and click the button was handled by an external program. I know that the CSF regulars were hung up on it being two movements instead of one (move mouse, click mouse) and they may have been right. But the blue response focused on the fact that you were giving an external program preset coordinates, and that the program was then "stepping in" when you pressed a specific keybind. Some CSF regulars were also calling this an issue "just like the G15 keyboard" but that does not seem to be the case. I don't think you can use Mouseclone without using the functionality that makes it a violation of the TOU.

I think the real question would be- is it legal to use a program that would auto-locate the mouse in order to have it track the primary mouse faithfully? I am thinking that it would not be, since you'd need an external program that would be doing almost the same thing as Mouseclone, only doing it on the fly.

[Owltoid]

ha

Septimous could you please explain what you meant by "I hit my key bind for Blizzard, which initiates the area selection." This is probably obvious to everyone but I don't play WoW.

Many of us have our area-of-effect spells (AOE) keybound to a button. If the user clicks "b" for blizzard, then the game brings up a green targeting system. Using that targeting system you move it around with your mouse to aim at a part of the ground (the target is usually a very large circle that represents the area the spell will cover). You then click on the mouse to select the area and the spell begins (many times it lasts for a few seconds and you must stay still to keep "channeling" the spell).

I use HKN and currently have my "Force of Nature" spell keybound to shift-t (FoN is the treant spell for druids). With Hotkeynet I have my shift-t set up as a toggle. The first time I push shift-t my FoN is cast (bringing up the AoE target). The second time I push shift-t, HKN broadcasts my current mouse position to the WoW windows and clicks the mouse button (identcial to hitting my left click buttons on the mouse). The third time I push shift-t it sends ctrl-8 (I think) to each WoW window which puts the treants in aggressive mode.

What really happens is that I initially place my mouse where I want the target to be (on my master). I try to set my camera view on my slaves so that when I click on the master it's approximately the correct place on my slaves. Then I start spamming shift-t. Due to delays they may not all cast at once, but since I have the toggle system it doesn't matter as long as I keep spamming it.

[Owltoid]

.......I think the real question would be- is it legal to use a program that would auto-locate the mouse in order to have it track the primary mouse faithfully? I am thinking that it would not be, since you'd need an external program that would be doing almost the same thing as Mouseclone, only doing it on the fly.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. My thought on multiboxing through software is that if it can be replicated with hardware (within reason) then it's allowed. I do understand others disagree with that view of software multiboxing. For instance, I have one main WoW window on my TV and split screen on my laptop. I use the relative positioning on my main TV and sends the mouse click to the relative position on the other two windows (which are much smaller). If I was instead a hardware boxer then I could just set up three monitors, have three computers, a wireless mouse with three receivers, and accomplish the same thing. Some prefer to do it that way, I prefer to multibox on one machine.

One of the "good" things to come out of MouseClone's request for blue approval is that he did mention "clicking" on a healing potion and having his slaves to the same thing. The blue didn't seem to object to that. What the blue did object to is the predetermined X,Y coordinates.

[Freddie]

is it legal to use a program that would auto-locate the mouse in order to have it track the primary mouse faithfully?

The user moves the mouse, guiding it by eye, and the cursor gets steered by that motion to its target and clicks. This is exactly how the mouse works normally with the WoW client by itself. The only difference is that it happens in multiple windows simultaneously. But Blizzard allows that difference, if it's the only one. So I think this is perfectly okay.

[Bigfish]

I think if you break it down to how the action is supposed to function, Ground targeted spells have a click to begin cast, an aiming mechanism, and a click to fire the spell. Ultimately, this is shortened to two clicks, one to begin and one to finish, if you want to predispose that the mouse pointer is where you want the spell to land before you cast. This can easily be achieved via hardware methods, and can even allowed a synched mouse to offer some form of aiming. Now, short of creating additional mousepointers on a computer, I'm not sure if this can easily be replicated via software. Using a set of predefined coordinates, you can create the effect of leaving an idle pointer over an area to "pre-target" it. You could even generate an option click on the proporionally identicle location on multiple windows. All this strikes me as falling safely under the ToS as to what we are allowed to do. Just my 2 copper.

[Freddie]

We clearly now know broadcasting predefined x,y coordinates is not allowed.

The way I would interpret this is that no method of software broadcasting on a single computer is legal. Period. Because you only get one mouse cursor per computer - everything past that would be emulated / predefined / etc.

I disagree. Predefined X Y breaks the rules because the user isn't steering the mouse in real time. With software broadcasting on a single PC, the user *is* steering the mouse in real time.