Mousecloner is very likely against the rules

[Sam DeathWalker]

The issue is not clear one way or the other, the way he asked the question could be interpreted to include that he did say mouse move/click. It also could be intrepreted just as validly that the blue response did not understand that the mouse was moved to predetermined coodinates and then clicked.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

Some wow forumers feel it is legal, some feel it is not.

I think all these arguments in this thread are better made over there where blues might see them.

Evilseed is the prior owner of WOWHEAD and I use WOWHEAD every day (well like 5 times a day).

I didnt see Vyndree post before posting this.

Predetermined x,y coordinate clicking makes hardware 'boxers cry.

cept me. Because my resolutions are the same on my 5 computers and because I set the views the same, and because all the mouse speeds are exactly the same I can move my one mouse and the pointer will go to about the same coodenates on all 5 computers....... Thats why I do some quests now cause I can click on the guy 5 at a time.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well casue it tends to indicate he's not fly by night nor will you get a viruse from his download.

Ya well ambiguilty is getting to be a Blizzard trademark ...

[Freddie]

This is the blue post everyone is going ape shit? That is not a confirmation nor denial of this programs "legality". Thats a "use at your own risk" statement.

Yep, that's what it is. The reason this matters is because the first thing Mousecloner says on his website is this:

Yes we are legal to use! Blizzard has given the green light on the features that drives Mousecloner. Read all about it here.

So he's misrepresenting the blue post. But it's even worse than that. He also misrepresented the "features that drives Mousecloner" when he asked for that blue post. If he had described his program honestly when he asked Blizzard for a blue post, I think they might have told him, "No way, bud, your program violates our rules."

[Bigfish]

Predetermined x,y coordinate clicking makes hardware 'boxers cry.

Doesn't bother me any, because that's more or less what I do for AOE, except I manually move my mice in to position and leave them there, and if I move them I have to reset that mouse, but ground targeted AOE comes up so little it doesn't bother me at all.

[Vyndree]

I didnt see Vyndree post before posting this.

Predetermined x,y coordinate clicking makes hardware 'boxers cry.

cept me. Because my resolutions are the same on my 5 computers and because I set the views the same, and because all the mouse speeds are exactly the same I can move my one mouse and the pointer will go to about the same coodenates on all 5 computers....... Thats why I do some quests now cause I can click on the guy 5 at a time.

So can I.

What I can't do is instantly move my mouse from one location to x,y location. Mice still have latency -- that is, your hand has to push the little mouse where you want it to go.

What others here described -- "I can do that! I just leave my mouse in the position I want it and click the mouse when I want to cast!" -- well, then... you're NOT moving the mouse at all, are you? I'd be fine with a hardware solution that sent an "I click the mouse!" signal when a key is pressed -- the mouse is not moving on any axis. But that's not what happens -- the mouse moves from point A to point B instantly with toggle from the user -- I can't do that with hardware. I can't yell at my mouse "Go to position 42, 85!" and watch the cursor blink to that position. I have to take my hand and moosh the little cursor over to the place I want it to be -- constant, continuous instruction -- not a toggle.

Also, mice de-sync. Regardless of the fact that I'm using the same mouse to move the same distance on 5 same-resolution screens, after some movement I find that the mouse will gradually "drift" on one or more of my monitors. When this happens, I have to move my mouse to a corner of my screen (wasting more time) to reorient them all the same location again. This is "fine", but I'm just emphasizing it's not as instant as a keypress that can guarantee a click in an x,y location.

I'm not saying it's against the rules, I'm just saying... there is no way to emulate certain aspects of software in hardware -- which seems backwards, since most of the software is all just trying to emulate hardware. PiP swapping, seamless and reliable mouse movement... not gonna happen in a pure hardware version.

[Stormweasel]

Edit - ignore me, someone already has done it!

[Bigfish]

Ya well ambiguilty is getting to be a Blizzard trademark ...

Well, its not like there is a department of acceptable 3rd party programs at blizz you can submit something to and get a seal of approval or a ban hammer warning about.

Really, the only way this is going to get any definitive "signal of Ok" is to use the thing on a wide scale and see whether the ban hammer lands or not, and honestly, its bad mojo to tout the product as Blizzard Approved before it has become a certainty.

[Rin]

Just my 2 copper here...

For what it's worth, both Hotkeynet and Keyclone have public registrations available for people to look at. The contact information for each of the authors is readily available. Having worked with Keyclone, I have personally talked to the software author on the phone, several times. Many users have had the same experiences when dealing with Rob at Keyclone, and many users have also had positive interactions with Freddie at HotKeyNet.

MouseCloner/EvilSeed has presented his product poorly. First by assuming a new name and advertising his products, then next by not explicitly stating what his product does - and then claiming to have Blizzard approval. While the software may or may not be OK with Blizzard, I would strongly advise you to use caution when dealing with MouseCloner.

Sam, in an earlier post, you stated that Evilseed is not a fly by night type of person; yet I find it funny that I was unable to find anything about this guy. All you really know about Evilseed is that he has a support email at mousecloner.com. That's it. His company and registration information have been deliberately hidden from the public (and I seriously doubt you're going to have any luck subpoena'ing him in the event that you lose your account). Having dealt with plenty of online ventures, one of the first things that comes to mind when you're going to market a product is having a lucid and easy contact method. Also, don't use anonymous registrations for your said company; while there are legitimate uses for this, the vast majority of proxied registrations are for products that may or may not be advisable. I would go as far as to call it a bad practice to register a company/product under an anonymous name, but I'm sure some of you would give me flack for that .

Maybe Evilseed will chime in and explain to us why he presented his product without explicitly talking about the x,y coordinate functionality. Personally, after seeing Evilseed/Mousecloner's behavior and responses on this board, I wouldn't buy a damn thing from this guy.. But that's just me. Some of you will, and I hope that it works out for you. The whole product, presentation, and site just has too many red flags for me.

[Kicksome]

You know, Athene, the guy who was the first to level to 79 (he would have been first to 80), but then got banned, asked a GM if it was ok to power level out of group. The GM said, sure. But if Athene had told him the whole store of:
Yes, I'm leveling out of group
But it's in an instance
and I'm dropping group, tagging all the stuff, then having the group kill stuff, so I get full exp
then I'm getting invited back within 60 seconds
so that I get full instance exp.

The GM could have most certainly set him straight.

But he just said 'Is it okay to power level out of group', which was true, but not the whole truth. And it cost him and a bunch of his friends, their accounts.

[Freddie]

there is no way to emulate certain aspects of software in hardware -- which seems backwards, since most of the software is all just trying to emulate hardware. PiP swapping, seamless and reliable mouse movement... not gonna happen in a pure hardware version.

I've never shared your view that multiboxing software is essentially an emulation of hardware. This has always seemed peculiar to me.

My basic idea for HotkeyNet was, "I'll write a hotkey program like AutoHotKey except it will work on an entire network of computers instead of a single PC, and every PC will be able to control all of the others, and there will be an interpreted script language." What does this have to do with emulating hardware? So far as I can see, nothing.

I don't think the relationship between multiboxing hardware and software is emulation. I think the relationship is like the one between phones and email, or between rifles and shotguns, or between cars and motorcycles. The relationship is a Venn diagram with two circles that partially overlap. The overlap indicates a bunch of tasks that both can accomplish; but each one can do certain things that the other can't. And for the common tasks, the ones in the overlapping area, each one has advantages and disadvantages relative to the other.