When to stop gathering haste?

[Kaynin]

castrandom benefits most from haste but it isn't the way to do the most dps. :P

I'd do at most 2800ish with castrandom. I do 3800 in a similar fight clicking all my spells manually, focusing on the best possible LvB rotation without much or any loss on LvB cd.

[Lyonheart]

[/quote] five lb's. Oo

I can barely do 4 with 250 haste and loose out on cooldown slightly in doing so. Are your figures bloodlusted or unbloodlusted?


Castrandom and castsequences make my dps drop like a brick btw, I click all spells manually.[/quote]



When boxing? click? how?

[valkry]

Hmm, WHATEVER!! All good mail spell power gear basically has crit AND haste on it, so you don't have to worry about it. Sure it's nice to be able to choose what you want more, but mostly you KNOW when an item is a clear upgrade over the other. Basically though, if you are wondering about gems, go +hit until you get capped. Hit rating is cheaper than crit and haste and is a flat increase, 1% hit rating is 1% dps, 1% crit or haste is not necessarily 1% dps.

I can see the argument though that haste is almost useles suntil you get enough to be able to squeeze in an extra lb before lvb comes off cd. Because if you are casting while it comes off cd, that's time wasted that could be spent casting lvb as it's the highest dps spell. What you want is a rotation that will your cast end at the exact moment lvb comes off cd so you can cast it straight away. It makes sense imo.

[Multibocks]

Not to sound elitist, but so much fail in this thread. This post from Elitist Jerks, go there, read the whole damn thread and then do your own testing and come back in here and spout some knowledge. If you are too lazy to do that then just follow this:

3.0.3 3.0.8 3.0.8 (With BL)
SP: 1.000 1.000 1.000
Crit: 0.476 0.602 0.585
Haste: 0.999 0.931 0.891

Now notice, LOOK DAMNIT. Crit sucks vs haste OK? OK!? This is not someone saying "I feel" or "in my opinion" this is tried and true(and simulated) work. These guys are incredibly smart and to just shrug that off and do you own thing is fine, but quit throwing in your opinion likes it means a damn or is anything close to fact.

I can't believe I read that haste doesnt help /castrandom people. Do you understand how haste works? Did you know you are not supposed to cast CL when under bloodlust? Read the thread.

edit: Also, although /castrandom will never equal someone manually casting their system of spells; the above values for stats are still valid. So dont say haste sucks for us because we use /castrandom. If you want to find what rotation you should be doing, then read the thread. It is not an easy question to answer. I gave up trying to be that perfect and am happy with my castrandom.

[Multibocks]

I can see the argument though that haste is almost useles suntil you get enough to be able to squeeze in an extra lb before lvb comes off cd. Because if you are casting while it comes off cd, that's time wasted that could be spent casting lvb as it's the highest dps spell. What you want is a rotation that will your cast end at the exact moment lvb comes off cd so you can cast it straight away. It makes sense imo.

No, no, no. Pushing back your LvB with a CL cast (non-BL) is better than waiting for it. HASTE IS GOOD DAMNIT, quit saying this stuff. You have to plan out your rotation based on what equipment haste you have. Then if you want to be a super nerd you plan out a rotation when you have BL up. Your rotation is to fit in between LvBs CL and LB, and keep it close, meaning if you find you are sitting for 1sec with nothing to cast before your next LvB, then cast SOMETHING. If you want to throw CL in, then do it after LvB. I'm not going to do the work for you, but everyone here is quite capable of doing it.

[valkry]

I can see the argument though that haste is almost useles suntil you get enough to be able to squeeze in an extra lb before lvb comes off cd. Because if you are casting while it comes off cd, that's time wasted that could be spent casting lvb as it's the highest dps spell. What you want is a rotation that will your cast end at the exact moment lvb comes off cd so you can cast it straight away. It makes sense imo.

No, no, no. Pushing back your LvB with a CL cast (non-BL) is better than waiting for it. HASTE IS GOOD DAMNIT, quit saying this stuff. You have to plan out your rotation based on what equipment haste you have. Then if you want to be a super nerd you plan out a rotation when you have BL up. Your rotation is to fit in between LvBs CL and LB, and keep it close, meaning if you find you are sitting for 1sec with nothing to cast before your next LvB, then cast SOMETHING. If you want to throw CL in, then do it after LvB. I'm not going to do the work for you, but everyone here is quite capable of doing it.

I never said haste is bad. I was just stating that I can see why people theorycraft that haste isn't as good if it means you are wasting time not lvBursting. Never did I claim what I was saying was fact, I was claiming that I can see the logic behind why people think this may be so. I didn't say it was right, i didn't say it was wrong, I said I can see why people would consider this for research in theorycrafting. Did you read my last part? I said you need a rotation that fits which is basically what you told me to do in your reply. Duh.

I bloody know haste is good, I was there for the rise of the resto shammy in BT and sunwell.

[Alemi]

This post makes even less sense than your first one. I'm starting to think you don't understand how any of this works. You're saying haste is worthless if you don't use it to squeeze an extra LB in before a LvB? While I agree being able to do that is nice, its only a small part of haste helping out elemental shamans. Just because I use castrandom and don't squeeze in 5 LBs between LvBs doesn't mean the haste doesn't SPEED UP all of my casts, making my Chain Heals faster, making all casts faster therefore getting in more casts over the course of a boss fight then I would get in without haste.

The bottom line is, castrandom with 0 haste vs castrandom with 15% haste is a HUGE difference. castrandom with 30% crit vs castrandom with 40% crit is a difference also but I disagree that its anywhere near as much of a difference as the haste.

Your posts make you sound elitist except the fact that they're extremely narrow views and not looking at even 25% of the picture much less the whole picture.

The post makes complete sense if you think about it. But there's little arguing with you and your understanding of the situation.

Point being, there's no way to tell you what would be better, what cap you should attain since you have no rotation to ANALYZE. Example: A cast random rotation of LB, LB, LB, LB, LB, LB, LVB would benefit more from haste, whereas a random rotation of LVB, LB, LB, LB, LVB, CL, LB would benefit more from haste because in random rotation one, you don't have a guarnteed EO/Clearcast up, and you're relying on an early crit for clearcast, whereas the 2nd rotation would benefit from haste because you have a guarnteed EO and Clearcast early and you don't miss a LVB shot. Get it? I really can't see how to make this any clearer - you're adding a 2nd random factor of a spellcast, period. You ask a BLANKET question, expect a blanket answer, and when it can't be provided, with a clear reasoning why, you miss the point.

You faceroll on your keyboard with castrandom so there's no point in trying to min/max which is what your ORIGINAL question was asking. And, since we're sitting here making personal attacks, I'm not elitis; I just know what the hell I'm talking about. Your reasoning however sound ignorant and laughable because the thread title is "When to stop gathering haste?" Which would lead one to believe you're asking how to maximize your DPS, and it was said just a few posts above me.

castrandom benefits most from haste but it isn't the way to do the most dps.

I agree with Multibocks - haste has been debated over and over again on EJ. I've posted the same calculations there that have been posted here, and the CONCENSUS is, haste gives constant benefit without RNG and offers a more consistent dps increase. The dps #s I posted here are quite clear on that, so take it with a grain of salt, but there's little point in trying to debate hard math here. Look it up, do it yourself, test it on a dummy.

[Multibocks]

castrandom benefits most from haste but it isn't the way to do the most dps

No one said castrandom is the way to do the most dps. Not many here will watch their cast bar on their shamans and use priority system for maximizing dps while AT THE SAME TIME tanking the boss. It's just too much micro managing going on. With that said, /castrandom sure makes it real easy to do pretty good dps. My shaman routinely top DPS meters on PUG(wooowooo I know, but its something) raids where I am too lazy to prioritize my casting. Still haste is going to benefit /castrandom users almost exactly as the numbers I posted earlier. I can't believe we are even arguing how haste helps any cast sequence.

[Multibocks]

I can see the argument though that haste is almost useles suntil you get enough to be able to squeeze in an extra lb before lvb comes off cd. Because if you are casting while it comes off cd, that's time wasted that could be spent casting lvb as it's the highest dps spell. What you want is a rotation that will your cast end at the exact moment lvb comes off cd so you can cast it straight away. It makes sense imo.

No, no, no. Pushing back your LvB with a CL cast (non-BL) is better than waiting for it. HASTE IS GOOD DAMNIT, quit saying this stuff. You have to plan out your rotation based on what equipment haste you have. Then if you want to be a super nerd you plan out a rotation when you have BL up. Your rotation is to fit in between LvBs CL and LB, and keep it close, meaning if you find you are sitting for 1sec with nothing to cast before your next LvB, then cast SOMETHING. If you want to throw CL in, then do it after LvB. I'm not going to do the work for you, but everyone here is quite capable of doing it.

I never said haste is bad. I was just stating that I can see why people theorycraft that haste isn't as good if it means you are wasting time not lvBursting. Never did I claim what I was saying was fact, I was claiming that I can see the logic behind why people think this may be so. I didn't say it was right, i didn't say it was wrong, I said I can see why people would consider this for research in theorycrafting. Did you read my last part? I said you need a rotation that fits which is basically what you told me to do in your reply. Duh.

I bloody know haste is good, I was there for the rise of the resto shammy in BT and sunwell.

Sorry misunderstood you post.

[Kaynin]

five lb's. Oo

I can barely do 4 with 250 haste and loose out on cooldown slightly in doing so. Are your figures bloodlusted or unbloodlusted?


Castrandom and castsequences make my dps drop like a brick btw, I click all spells manually.

When boxing? click? how?

It's dutch, the word for press button in dutch literally translated is 'click button'. :P I meant press ofcourse.