When to stop gathering haste?

[Kaynin]

Have to take into account that crit also gives oath, at some point enough crit will get you oathed up 100% though. But 19% crit seems way low to me.

I'm at 45ish% at the moment. (Do you take into account the 5% crit from talent on lightning spells as well as Oath/ToW? :P I hope not, cuz your base crit would be 5% then. XD Sounds to me you're on 33%ish crit.

[blbjtb]

With 4 shamans Shooting all the time Oath isnt a problem I mean it seriously is almost NEVER off

[Kaynin]

Oath gives spellpower bonus to the shaman that procs it.

Anyhow, stats isn't everything, biggest factor is lag and playstyle in dps.

[Niley]

Oath gives spellpower bonus to the shaman that procs it.

Anyhow, stats isn't everything, biggest factor is lag and playstyle in dps.

There is only one way to play, to maximize your dps, there is no playstyles per se.
And stats are 90% of Your dps, then comes skill. Anything above 200ms will make You suck vs other shamans in same gear.
Also 99% of the shamans that I meet are bad, bad specs, bad gearing, bad rotations, just the other day I meet a shaman that stacked spirirt, or one that only used LB...or one that still specced into resto, that's all within 2 days :P

[Kaynin]

Oath gives spellpower bonus to the shaman that procs it.

Anyhow, stats isn't everything, biggest factor is lag and playstyle in dps.

There is only one way to play, to maximize your dps, there is no playstyles per se.
And stats are 90% of Your dps, then comes skill. Anything above 200ms will make You suck vs other shamans in same gear.
Also 99% of the shamans that I meet are bad, bad specs, bad gearing, bad rotations, just the other day I meet a shaman that stacked spirirt, or one that only used LB...or one that still specced into resto, that's all within 2 days :P

I agree, but like I said, so many clueless shamans, which I was aiming it, is what makes the most diff.

But for example, one of my shamans has like 375 haste, other three have 250ish, some less some more sp, etc. Not all the same stats, yet I end up with near exactly the same dps in instances. Only very small actual differences. Hence the biggest factor is how well you do your rotation. :P

[Niley]

Oath gives spellpower bonus to the shaman that procs it.

Anyhow, stats isn't everything, biggest factor is lag and playstyle in dps.

There is only one way to play, to maximize your dps, there is no playstyles per se.
And stats are 90% of Your dps, then comes skill. Anything above 200ms will make You suck vs other shamans in same gear.
Also 99% of the shamans that I meet are bad, bad specs, bad gearing, bad rotations, just the other day I meet a shaman that stacked spirirt, or one that only used LB...or one that still specced into resto, that's all within 2 days :P

I agree, but like I said, so many clueless shamans, which I was aiming it, is what makes the most diff.

But for example, one of my shamans has like 375 haste, other three have 250ish, some less some more sp, etc. Not all the same stats, yet I end up with near exactly the same dps in instances. Only very small actual differences. Hence the biggest factor is how well you do your rotation. :P

In 5 mans everything dies so quickly that its all up to RNG, I had my lesser shamans out dps my main, that pretty much has everything best in slot, but when a boss drops in 20s, there isn't much to say about dps rotations(other then 2 or 3 bosses, no other bosses will last more then 20-25s)
I actually took my altt shaman to naxx 2 days ago, 25 man, full clear with my guild mixed alt/main run(20 man+shocking so people can finish up their glory of the raider). That's where gear really matters, My alt is not geared for raids, only has like 100 hit, and these are the results:
http://wowwebstats.com/bawk1iflmej3g?s=219943-249558
(top 7 are not alts)
That is almost 2k dps below my main =P on patchwerk.

[puppychow]

for heroics: spell power > haste > crit once you are at 60 hit (which is almost impossible not to hit)
for raiding: hit (till 17% hit cap) > spell power > haste > crit

best advice is to try and have 2 items you can swap around in a few slots (trinket especially), one with haste or crit and one with hit. For heroics use sp/haste/crit, for raiding use hit. A single miss on a boss will just destroy your DPS. For PVP of course sp > resil > haste > crit.

Haste is in many ways a horrible stat for players but great for Blizzard, since it takes SO MUCH to see miniscule returns. It means they can have an easy time upgrading new gear, and it won't horribly imbalance the game by adding an extra 200 haste to a new tier of gear, and most players will see "oo I got 50 more haste I must be super powerful now!!" and be happy.

I would never, ever gem or enchant for haste, always gem or enchant for spell power and choose a secondary stat (hit, haste, stam, etc) when you need to match colors.

Also just look at recount after bosses to see your stats, For example Niley's recount there shows lightning bolt was 69% of the damage on patchwerk, and he missed 2.4% of the time. Every person is going to be slightly different, but you should figure it out for your guys and then enchant/gem/glyph accordingly. I sit around 200-250 hit most of the time so I gem for spell power and crit, since lb is ~50% of my dmg and therefore crit helps me the most, even though its "wasted" on lava burst, lvb is only 30% of my damage.

[Bigfish]

If haste and crit have the same returns as far as dps goes wouldn't haste make you eat more mana to deliver the same dps?

Yes, but I believe there are diminishing returns associated with crit rating and haste as far as item points to 1% increase goes, so the marginal returns don't remain static the more of one or the other you stack.

I think. Not entirely sure there.

[Catamer]

for the shaman I would think haste and crit are equally important.
haste will increase your DPS by the same rate as a crit chance does.

clear casting and elemental oath aside....
a 15% crit chance means in every 100 casts you will crit for double damage on 15 of them ( equivalent to 115 casts, but the mana cost of only 100 casts )
a 15% haste means for the time it took you to cast 100 casts you can now cast 115 ( again 115 casts but the mana cost of 115 )

as you can see, both give the same amount of DPS increase.

I would personally favor crit over haste because of elemental oath and the clearcasting it causes.

[Hachoo]

Elemental oath is a bad reason. I have elemental oath up 100% of the time, no matter what. I can't remember any time when elemental oath wasn't active after the first cast.

Yes, the 18.5% crit is just whats on the character sheet, obviously with elemental oath and other talents its much higher than that.

Also as far as haste reducing mana efficiency, I never have mana issues anyway. Last, haste also effects the global cooldown which helps for burst such as FS->LvB

Anyway, not purposefully going for haste anyway its just what all the gear happens to have on it. And to whoever said 0.3 seconds off of a LB isn't that big of a deal, you're insane. .3s off a LB is HUGE - over the course of 20-30 casts you're looking at 6-9 seconds of extra casting which is ~4 extra lightning bolts which is what, 12000 extra damage - per shaman. I only gem for SP (unless I need hit) so the haste right now just seems to be appearing on all the shaman gear.