Questions on how to support this hobby? Supporting this hobby, what do you do?

[bryce]

I'm getting started with my first 5-box team and already I'm looking at the costs dreading it, but I love computers and am going through with it. So, how do you support this hobby of yours?

Let me give a bit of background on myself first. I'm currently 20 years old, working out of the house, well parent's house lol. I did try and attempt college but it's not me, so I left. I'm currently a video editor for the news and advertising field. Not full blown editing, but just small things and some other computer related tasks. I've got my work computers set up (iMac, eMac, some recording gear for capturing TV shows from other states, etc) and my personal computers setup right next to it. At the rate I'm going right now though, I'll never really be able to go full blown and 10-box like some of you do here (it's a goal/dream you could say lol). I do have some talent in web dev/design and computer related things, but in this day and age you need a degree 99% of the time. Which, in my opinion is stupid. Why hire someone that would probably have less real world experience but has a piece of paper then someone who does have real world experience? I don't get that. I know for a fact, if I was hired for my skills and not a paper saying I know what I'm doing I'd do fine, but employers won't even take a look at me unless I have that piece of paper. Am I right?

So, what I'm thinking of doing is opening my own company that specilizes in web development, computer refurbishing and building, and general internet and technology solutions. How viable is web development/design nowadays? Anyone here do that for a living? I'm a member on a professional Designer forum and some of them are able to get by charging $300+/hour on some projects. Yes, they've got a LOT more skill than me, so I'm thinking I could get by charging ~100-200/hour starting out for web design and devlopment. Now for the computer refurbishing and building, you really need a store front for customers to come to, that of course costs money. Would it be viable to operate that portion out of my home until business picks up, etc? Why I'm asking this is because I really would like to enjoy myself with this hobby and of course all of this requires money. I'm not the kind of person to go around saying what I make, neither do I expect you all to announce it, but my current job, which is actually the very first job I've held is currently paying $10/hour at 20-50 hours a week. Does anyone think is an ok payrate for what I do currently (video editor for an television marketing consultant...the company who goes around telling news anchors and stations how to 'hook' the viewers, etc).

So, anyone got any advice for me?

[Sajuuk]

I found a way to pay my bills/WoW costs while allowing me to save all my regular paycheck for college.

I donate blood plasma twice a week for a total of about 65 dollars.

[Yamio]

A good friend of mine donates blood twice a week too and he gets $60; $20 for the first visit and $40 for the second. He's been doing it religiously every week for well over a year.

[bryce]

This is a joke right? I shouldn't of posted about this here lol.

[Bigfish]

The piece of paper isn't so important. What the piece of paper represents is. Its an indicator of your tenacity and your ability to stick with a large undertaking and see it through. Having a degree shows an employer/potential client that you've invested a fair amount of time and money in to getting certified at what you do.

A good 80% of jobs out there can be performed by a trained monkey, but when employers/clients look at potential employees/contractors, why should they hire someone with no degree when there are plenty of people with one? In the same vein, why should they pay someone with no degree the same they would pay someone with one? There are no shortage of people who can work, but what firms are really interested in are people who are devoted to what they do and aren't going to flake out or hop ship at the first sign of trouble.

Now if you don't want to go to college, that's your perogative, but you'll make less money over the course of your career if you don't. You don't have to go to a university if that's not your thing (and I'll say, 50% of what you get out of university is useless), but you should at least consider a technical college or getting several certifications.

Plenty of people on this board make a good living without a degree, several far above the average degree holder. Thing is, they aren't going to drop the magic secret to making money in your lap just because you asked for it. You mentioned professional designers who charge 300$/hour for projects, but do these people have employees, equipment, and debts to pay off? How much experience do they have, and what do their portfolios look like? Charging 300$ doesn't necesarily equate to them being paid 300$, not to mention with any such endeavor, you typically do not get the option to charge on an hourly basis and it gets done when it gets done. You're far more likely to have to forecast how many hours a project will take, and make a competitive bid on that based on what you charge. You get the project done early? You get to pocket the difference. You take more time than you thought? That comes out of your pocket.

Now if you have the drive and ambition to pull off owning your own business, more power to you. I would still highly suggest you take some classes on it, and come up with a business plan.

[bryce]

I was just throwing the designers out there as an example. I know they got a ton more experience than me. I never mentioned anything about not having certifications either. I have a couple. I'm just as motivated as someone with a degree, I guess I just need to find a way to show that I am which is easier said than done. I am currently working on a business plan, I expect it to be finished sometime in the next 2-3 weeks and I am considering going to a technical school. I'm looking at ITT Technical right now.

I just really wanted some advice or something. So, thank you for it.

[Hachoo]

Unless you go way overboard the hobby is really one of the cheapest hobbies you can get.

I was 5 boxing just fine on the PC I already owned (3GB memory, dual core athlon x2 2.5GHz, GeForce 8600GT). I've since upgraded a couple times but didn't have to. Aside from that, buying the WoW accounts was a bit of cost up front, but other than that, $75 a month is fairly cheap in the grand scheme of things (My cable bill alone with internet is $150 so $75 is pretty cheap).

Anyway, don't be afraid to 5 box with what you have - memory is the most important thing and its retardedly cheap right now (recently picked up 4GB of memory for $20 with free shipping).

[Ken]

Why hire someone that would probably have less real world experience but has a piece of paper then someone who does have real world experience? I don't get that. I know for a fact, if I was hired for my skills and not a paper saying I know what I'm doing I'd do fine, but employers won't even take a look at me unless I have that piece of paper. Am I right?

[...] and some of them are able to get by charging $300+/hour on some projects. Yes, they've got a LOT more skill than me[...]

I think that you've answered your own question yourself:
If you don't have a degree, you need to excel and have proven to be on par with someone that has a degree. If you are on the same level as an average person with a degree, then it's very natural that the person with the degree gets picked if there are a lot of candidates for the job. Unfortunately for you, there are a lot of web developers.


(I'm speaking out of experience; I got hired at the age of 21 - without a degree higher than highschool - as a programmer for a big development studio)
I've even been approached by several web development companies that asked if I could work for them ... and PHP/XHTML/CSS is only something I used for my personal websites.

[Bigfish]

I was just throwing the designers out there as an example. I know they got a ton more experience than me. I never mentioned anything about not having certifications either. I have a couple. I'm just as motivated as someone with a degree, I guess I just need to find a way to show that I am which is easier said than done. I am currently working on a business plan, I expect it to be finished sometime in the next 2-3 weeks and I am considering going to a technical school. I'm looking at ITT Technical right now.

I just really wanted some advice or something. So, thank you for it.

I didn't mean to imply you didn't have any certifications. I just wasn't sure. I guess the point I was trying to make is that finding an income, whether it be through self employment or through an already established firm, is just as important if not more so than what you actually end up doing. Its a ridiculous system and it makes no sense, but "soft skills" (interviewing, how well your resume is worded, how you interface with people) are hugely important. Sadly, being motivated has little to do with finding work. Its all about presenting yourself as the best option to prospective clients/employers.

I do wish you the best of luck, though, and I don't mean to be a downer. I'm just putting things out as I see them, which may or may not be accurate. :whistling:

[Vyndree]

I can honestly say I learned little to nothing out of college, and my brain has fried to a certain level of retardation now that I'm actually working (since I do pretty much the same thing... every day...)

It makes teh moneh, tho.

Just think of it this way: The piece of paper helps. Why? Who cares. It does. If you don't have one, it's not the end of the world. But it helps.



I can't help you much when it comes to jobs or starting your own job, but I can say that multiboxing, like any hobby, is a balance of cost versus gain. If you're willing to cut out some other costs in your life you can have more room for gain. Cell phone? Dinners out? Starbucks in the morning? See if there's any extras you can trim to give you more room to save for 'boxing. There's also ways you can cut costs while 'boxing -- software setups are (generally) less expensive than hardware, or hardware 'boxing with some lower-end PCs also works (used PCs go for very cheap -- and WoW, being an older game, will run pleasantly on a computer that's seen a few years).

Just take a look at your spending and you'll find ways to balance. And if you refuse to cut out costs elsewhere, that's when the only real way to go is to find another job that pays better or gives you spending money on the side.