Mouse Broadcasting - Delays violate TOS?

[zanthor]

i think the main question here was is there any sort of delay programmed in, which i believe has been answered with a firm No. it's just slow

The thing is I know a little bit about programming, I'm not a Win32API expert by any means, but from what I see, the code runs when a click event fires, moves the mouse to the next client, sets focus, clicks, moves mouse to the next client, sets focus, clicks, repeats as necessary... there is timing involved to make this function the way it does. AutoHotKey functions quite similarly in that it has a pause coded in, he tells you about this in the instructions of how to set it up and warns that this may be violating the TOS of WoW, it's measured in MS and needs tuned by machine to make mouse replication work...

[pengwynman]

The thing is I know a little bit about programming, I'm not a Win32API expert by any means, but from what I see, the code runs when a click event fires, moves the mouse to the next client, sets focus, clicks, moves mouse to the next client, sets focus, clicks, repeats as necessary... there is timing involved to make this function the way it does. AutoHotKey functions quite similarly in that it has a pause coded in, he tells you about this in the instructions of how to set it up and warns that this may be violating the TOS of WoW, it's measured in MS and needs tuned by machine to make mouse replication work...

but still.... is there a delay actually programmed into keyclone, or is the delay caused by the program "waiting" for the OS? I think that as long as the delay isn't configurable and the program isn't reading anything from wow memory, blizz won't have a problem with it.

[stealthy45]

As far as I know the rival product has plenty of ability to program in keystrokes and all manner of naughtiness that could get you banned

My, that's a big stick you're beating a very dead horse with.

but still.... is there a delay actually programmed into keyclone, or is the delay caused by the program "waiting" for the OS? I think that as long as the delay isn't configurable and the program isn't reading anything from wow memory, blizz won't have a problem with it.

While I agree that it probably isn't programmed in and therefore wouldn't be against the ToS, a delay of 3-5 seconds for an action that for all rights and means should be instantaneous is the mark of flawed code.

[elsegundo]

so GM guy says Keyclone is fine.


OK! :thumbsup:

Read the link, he's saying that KeyClones fine, he's saying pauses are not, KeyClone pauses to broadcast mice clicks, they happen over a spread of about 2-3 seconds for 5 clients... I'm not saying it WILL get you banned, but I'm saying it SHOULD be something people are aware of. Especially since the feature in it's current state is now getting a lot of press from other users. Assuming Rob gets the pause removed, then all is back to normal and KeyClone regains it's status as the least likely to let something naughty happen.

yes i know. indeed it may be a problem... then agian, it may not. if i find keyclone working suspiciously, then of course i will stop using it. but i dont think this is something to really worry about.

[zanthor]

This is the spirit in which I posted this thread, to discus and identify the cause of the delay, I'm still curious as to the mechanic that is causing it... if indeed it's waiting on OS events and 100% outside the control of the app then I'd equate that very much to any delay you see between clients as the keystroke data is transmitted to each client, and I'd say it's fine, just seeing the delay on KeyClone is so much larger than any other mouse broadcaster I've tested makes me think that there are some delays coded, of course waiting for events to fire would be more efficient and could be the answer to how it's done.

[elsegundo]

using anything mouse-related with keyclone has caused me a lot of problems in the past, so i tend to shy away from the use of my mouse with keyclone. there are delays and some bugs when switching the mouse between screens while running, button clicks down registers while sometimes clicks up do not. etc etc... which leads me to not use any mouse feature in keyclone. for key broadcasting and pip, its awesome. im sure we will see many more updates and improvements to the program as time goes by. but even with these issues i have with keyclone, i still do not have any suspicion that keyclone is doing anything illegal unless i alter it in some way. much like how my mouse program can map some keyboard keys and my n52 program maps some of my keyboard keys-- they all have the ability to delay keystrokes, thus able to automate certain events, but i do not use it when playing WoW.

[stealthy45]

much like how my mouse program can map some keyboard keys and my n52 program maps some of my keyboard keys-- they all have the ability to delay keystrokes, thus able to automate certain events, but i do not use it when playing WoW.

Sometimes I wish people would pull their heads out of their asses long enough to think about that.

I am also curious to the cause of the absurd delays in keyclone.

[keyclone]

Blizzard's problem is with any user programmable delays and out-of-game macros.

why? the answer is obvious. because those are the key components of bot engines, like WoWGlider/ISXWarden/IS

your effort to deflect attention away from blatantly illegal tools is amusing. ok, there is a delay that happens as keyclone waits for the win32 api to return from a call. this is nothing new and the delay has been mentioned by users before. this is not user programmable. therefore, not against the TOS.

BUT, AHK, HKN, and IS all provide the user with programmable delays, looping, conditionals, and out-of-game macro capability (one key producing numerous key hits per wow). these capabilities are obviously illegal.

don't think so? try mentioning it on the wow forums... see how long before the blues pull the thread. any mention of innerspace (especially if you give link to it) will get nuked in a flash. why? maybe because innerspace was at the heart of the ban waves that went through the wow community. did you forget those? do you think noobies know this when they read these forums looking for multi-boxing solutions? no. they believe everything they find here is as legal as it can be... minimal risk.

[stealthy45]

Keyclone - few things.
1) Drop the flaming. You're only making yourself look bad.

2) What Win32 call?

3)

BUT, AHK, HKN, and IS all provide the user with programmable delays, looping, conditionals, and out-of-game macro capability (one key producing numerous key hits per wow). these capabilities are obviously illegal.

See here:

Quoted

much like how my mouse program can map some keyboard keys and my n52 program maps some of my keyboard keys-- they all have the ability to delay keystrokes, thus able to automate certain events, but i do not use it when playing WoW.

Sometimes I wish people would pull their heads out of their *expletive* long enough to think about that.

Again, very big stick, very dead horse. In the end it is up to the end user to take advantage of any illicit capabilities of anything, be it InnerSpace, HKN, or even the API calls that make said illicit actions possible.

You're forgetting the Logitech G15 keyboard that also provide said capabilities that is to the best of my knowledge completely Blizzard-safe, so long as you don't use the ToS-breaking capabilities it can provide for. I do not understand why you refuse to consider this.

Edit:

why? the answer is obvious. because those are the key components of bot engines, like WoWGlider/ISXWarden/IS

I wish you had an idea about what you're talking about. How about leaving ToS-violating things out of this discussion, i.e. the first two things you referred to?
Edit 2: Typo fixes

[Freddie]

these capabilities are obviously illegal.

As I tell HotkeyNet's users on the program's website, "Cars are legal but drunk driving is not. In the same way, this program is legal according to Blizzard's rules but certain kinds of hotkeys are not. It's up to you to use the program wisely just like it's up to you to drive safely."

Here's the rest of the advice. It contains full disclosure about every command in HotkeyNet that can potentially break Blizzard's rules:

HotkeyNet and WoW: Don't Get Busted