Sharp skill curve adding a tank to the mix?

[Sam DeathWalker]

Im not saying its impossible. I control my pal as good as a single person (well if I bothered to get more talents and spells, I mean I could control the tank as good as single player, like I do with my warrior in EQ). But if you are going to be on your main 100 percent of the time, then the support toons need to keep it simple.

Also I guess with only 5 its a lot easyer to get more out of each toon. Of course you will not come near to max dps with /castrandom, but you should do 75percent of max. If you can do 100 percent with your leader adn 75 percent with the rest seems to me you are doing well. No one will get 100 percent out of all 5. And all the extra work you need to do and extra concentration to get from the easty 75 percent of max dps/heal whatever to the 85 percent or whatever you do with tons of key bindings and macros, well seems a lot of effort for minimal return. On the other hand I am very familar with wanting to get the absolute max from your toons (who dons't compare gear and take the one that is .06 percent better lol), and really why not be the best you can be.

Well we do play different games kinda, I just press a button and the mob is dead, 25 earth shocks and its over. I even have fire nova totems now but where I am at there are to many casters/ranged mobs to really test it out. And I have a main button and a "emergeny heal" and a "drop dem totems" button but ....

Also I am not saying you use the same big button from level 1 to 80 for every encounter. You settle into your camp, figure out what you need and write your single spam macro accordingly to maximize efficeny for that particular camp or even particular encouter.

[Hachoo]

Seeing some of these responses about paladins and consecrate, judgements, etc, makes me think that DK tanking as a multiboxer is even easier than a Paladin.

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!

I personally use a single button spam for instances - it basically runs through a tanking castsequence/castrandom on my DK and randomizes LB/CL/Purge on my shamans - this covers 99% of battles in PvE and I'm very very happy with it.

However, these macros are in ADDITION to the macros I already used prior to developing them. My other macros allow me to manually do anything- Purge on a round robin, earth shock on round robin, cast LB when I want, CL when I want, use various DK abilities like death coil, unholy blight, anti magic shield/zone, etc...

Once I had been running instances for awhile and realized I was constantly rotating between macros to be "optimal" (ie: switching between LB and CL, throwing in purges, etc), I realized it would be a lot less stressful and easier to make special castsequences/castrandom macros for standard tank and spank PvE fights. It has made my life easier and made instances faster/more fun since I have done that. DK is the ultimate for a castsequence/castrandom IMO:

#showtooltip
/castrandom Unholy Blight,Rune Strike
/castsequence reset=target Icy Touch,Plague Strike,Pestilence,Death Strike,Blood Strike(,Scourge Strike)

Basically will use unholy blight or rune strike if one of them is up, and then cycles through a castsequence. Other than dropping a death and decay at the beginning for larger pulls, I hardly ever have to use another key on my DK unless I really want/need to.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya really you can do a LOT with a properly written macro, like the one above.

[Vyndree]

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!

Quoting this because it seems to be the summary of what everyone seems to be arguing with me about. The thing is, our arguments DO NOT CONFLICT.

I'm saying "You can't just have one, and ONLY one button to spam 100% of the time."

You are saying "But I have a button I spam 90% of the time!"


That's cool -- I don't have that sort of button setup but that is my PERSONAL macro preferences. 90% still does not equal 100%. So stop arguing as if I insulted you somehow by telling you you're wrong -- I didn't. You have other buttons than your spam button, don't you? Doesn't matter if you use them reliably or not -- my argument doesn't apply to you.

What I'm saying is -- you still took the time to think about and develop buttons for alternate situations (for example, CC/Interrupts/Healing/whatever). This was a priority for you, right? You can't just take one button and say "My team is done! Commence pewpew!" or you'll quickly learn the hard way that one size does not fit all.

So, just to clarify -- I'm not arguing with you. Your personal macro style doesn't sync with mine -- I like to micromanage, so I don't use castsequences/castrandoms. But my argument wasn't against castsequences/castrandoms (that little note was simply my personal macro preferences) -- my argument was about using ONE and ONLY one button to run your entire team.

And, for the record -- when I'm playing my shaman, 90% of the time I was hitting "Lightning Bolt". So I'm not arguing that spammable buttons are bad -- I've used them myself. But you still have to think "outside the box" about what might happen to your team (whether you're focused on PvP, raiding, heroics, questing) and tailor OTHER macros to those needs. Without that sort of thought, I feel you're dooming yourself to failure (or at least a very painful time when those situations do occur). For me, I care that I'm on a PvP server (and need anti-gank situational buttons), I do instances (and need heals/tanking buttons), and raids (for which I was constantly rewriting my macros per individual boss encounter).

I probably wouldn't have been able to do my instances while leveling if I had just my main "spam button". I probably would've been camped for ages if I hadn't bound grounding/interrupts/tremors and other anti-pvp server gankage buttons. I most certainly would NEVER have survived Karazhan without specific boss encounter buttons.

You see what I'm trying to say now? It's not that /castsequences are bad, it's that the idea that "to multibox effectively you have to put all your eggs in one basket" is just not feasable. You WILL run into special cases where you need special macros, and you DO need to think about those -- ESPECIALLY when you're trying to create a new group composition (which is exactly what the OP is trying to do). So, I say, telling a person that the effective way to multibox is to fit everything into one macro is completely ridiculous.




About /castrandom for Paladins specifically (and please note, I'm back on the "personal opinion" horse) -- I don't use it, because I want to be 100% sure I am keeping holy shield up because, at the time that I designed my macros, it was ESSENTIAL to preventing a crushing blow. For leveling? Heroics? Non-crushing bosses? Doesn't matter as much. But I still want to be able to control and maximize my pally's mitigation, threat management, and yes -- mana (mana was a bit of an issue for me, particularly multiboxing Karazhan pre-3.0).

[Hachoo]

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!

Quoting this because it seems to be the summary of what everyone seems to be arguing with me about. The thing is, our arguments DO NOT CONFLICT.

I'm saying "You can't just have one, and ONLY one button to spam 100% of the time."

You are saying "But I have a button I spam 90% of the time!"


That's cool -- I don't have that sort of button setup but that is my PERSONAL macro preferences. 90% still does not equal 100%. So stop arguing as if I insulted you somehow by telling you you're wrong -- I didn't. You have other buttons than your spam button, don't you? Doesn't matter if you use them reliably or not -- my argument doesn't apply to you.

What I'm saying is -- you still took the time to think about and develop buttons for alternate situations (for example, CC/Interrupts/Healing/whatever). This was a priority for you, right? You can't just take one button and say "My team is done! Commence pewpew!" or you'll quickly learn the hard way that one size does not fit all.

So, just to clarify -- I'm not arguing with you. Your personal macro style doesn't sync with mine -- I like to micromanage, so I don't use castsequences/castrandoms. But my argument wasn't against castsequences/castrandoms (that little note was simply my personal macro preferences) -- my argument was about using ONE and ONLY one button to run your entire team.

And, for the record -- when I'm playing my shaman, 90% of the time I was hitting "Lightning Bolt". So I'm not arguing that spammable buttons are bad -- I've used them myself. But you still have to think "outside the box" about what might happen to your team (whether you're focused on PvP, raiding, heroics, questing) and tailor OTHER macros to those needs. Without that sort of thought, I feel you're dooming yourself to failure (or at least a very painful time when those situations do occur). For me, I care that I'm on a PvP server (and need anti-gank situational buttons), I do instances (and need heals/tanking buttons), and raids (for which I was constantly rewriting my macros per individual boss encounter).

I probably wouldn't have been able to do my instances while leveling if I had just my main "spam button". I probably would've been camped for ages if I hadn't bound grounding/interrupts/tremors and other anti-pvp server gankage buttons. I most certainly would NEVER have survived Karazhan without specific boss encounter buttons.

You see what I'm trying to say now? It's not that /castsequences are bad, it's that the idea that "to multibox effectively you have to put all your eggs in one basket" is just not feasable. You WILL run into special cases where you need special macros, and you DO need to think about those -- ESPECIALLY when you're trying to create a new group composition (which is exactly what the OP is trying to do). So, I say, telling a person that the effective way to multibox is to fit everything into one macro is completely ridiculous.




About /castrandom for Paladins specifically (and please note, I'm back on the "personal opinion" horse) -- I don't use it, because I want to be 100% sure I am keeping holy shield up because, at the time that I designed my macros, it was ESSENTIAL to preventing a crushing blow. For leveling? Heroics? Non-crushing bosses? Doesn't matter as much. But I still want to be able to control and maximize my pally's mitigation, threat management, and yes -- mana (mana was a bit of an issue for me, particularly multiboxing Karazhan pre-3.0).

You argue with me as if I was talking directly to you and as if you had previously responded to something I had said - neither of which is true.

[Rin]

Thread Summary

Having 1 Button for All Actions and All Scenarios = Unfeasible.

Micromanaging Characters = Great if you can do it, but it requires a lot more focused attention. It seems as if there are only a few of us who like this playstyle (*points to himself*, Vyndree, TheBigBB), and most of us who play this way are boxing a minimum of 5 characters. Probably a coincidence.

Cast Sequences/Cast Random = Appropriate for certain situations, although the people who like to Micromanage (see above) probably don't use cast sequences

Benefits of "1 Button" Playing
- Easy to learn
- Easy to accomplish most PvE goals (outside of Heroics and raids, I'd imagine)
- Works very well with classes that have synergy, and works OK with classes that do not.

Benefits of Micromanaging
- Highly customizable; can adapt to any situation (PvP, PvE, etc.)
- Easy to use ONCE you get adjusted to micromanaging (read: easy to use once you memorize where your macros are)
- Works with all classes/synergies
- Higher learning curve before you feel "relaxed"/comtorable with your individual macros for things

... And I'll leave the cons for someone else to finish up.

Keep in mind, we're all really saying the same things though, some of us just play differently. You have to pick a style that works with you.

Please note * 1 Button playing = 1 button to do most of your work

[Vyndree]

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!

Quoting this because it seems to be the summary of what everyone seems to be arguing with me about. The thing is, our arguments DO NOT CONFLICT.

You argue with me as if I was talking directly to you and as if you had previously responded to something I had said - neither of which is true.

For emphasis.

(*points to himself*, Vyndree, TheBigBB), and most of us who play this way are boxing a minimum of 5 characters. Probably a coincidence.

This is exactly why I favor pet classes. Makes me feel like I'm 9-boxing. I also favor hybrids because I can respec them to different roles and theorycraft my little heart out.

I don't 10-box because I don't feel there are enough outlets for me to use it. 10-man (or even 25) raids I can do with the archi 'boxers, PvP battlegrounds eventually get boring... I dunno. I 5-box b/c it gives me the most options.

- Easy to accomplish most PvE goals (outside of Heroics and raids, I'd imagine)

Add PvP. I have more PvP-specific bindings honestly than anything else, and it's mostly there for anti-gankage.
Examples: CoEx. Interrupts. Tremor rotations. Fear rotations. Purges (don't use often in PvE)/dispells. Etc

- Works very well with classes that have synergy, and works OK with classes that do not.

I'd ACTUALLY swap this around... I (personally) think the "1 button to rule them all" sort of thing works BEST for mixed groups BECAUSE they're hard to micromanage. If you castsequence them in a decent or close-to perfect rotation, you can get more out of spamming one button repeatedly compared to say... putting different cast times on the same buttons and not starting up the next cast until the person with the longest cast is finished.

Hopefully that made sense. O.o

- Easy to use ONCE you get adjusted to micromanaging (read: easy to use once you memorize where your macros are)

Doesn't a solo player have to memorize where their button layout is? (Caveat: clickers. Nothing wrong with clickers, they just have a higher learning curve).

Learning keybindings isn't limited to multiboxers. Depending on your setup, you can have more/less keybindings solo vs multiboxed. Depends on the person.

- Higher learning curve before you feel "relaxed"/comtorable with your individual macros for things

Isn't this the same as above?

[TheBigBB]

Vyndree, I always agree with you. :thumbup:

[xum]

My setup is as follows:

Prot Pally, FFire Mage or 0/41/30 lock, BM Hunter, Ele Shaman, Resto Druid

Easiest way to add a tank, like aforementioned is setting the tank to your main. Then, invest in a decent mouse, as Keyclone wont send mouse buttons to your slaves (I believe that there are certain software driven mice that can support global mouse).

With the four buttons I have on my mouse (exluding scroll and left/right click), I have a total of 16 combonations to use at my arsenal. More than enough for ANY tank -- I devote one button on my pally for buffs. Another button is for salv/bubble other/bubble self/hand of freedom, one for melee range tanking (and also HS), and one for pulling/HoW(decurse -- very nice if my healer gets CC'd). I find it easy enough to click on party member's unit frames for any buffs needed. **EDIT** Last but not least, and I did forget it, mouse wheel press = pally stun

For my DPS classes, 1-5 is my DPS, 6 is my CC macro, ~ is trinket macro, then 7,8,9,0 I use for my healing of party members, and finally -, = used for healing of healer.

All combonations use very intelligent overlay with / without the use of modifier keys

....ie 1 & 5 are LB on shaman, while 1 is Steady Shot on Hunter, while mod+1 is hunters mark, 5 is initimadtion, CTRL+5 is TBW and Shift+5 is Mend pet, 1 is incinerate/ffb and shift+1 is immolate.
Big note:: Since the cast times dont always line up, I use redundancy (and a bunch of practice on the dummies) to figure out what works best for me... Your results will vary. This means button mashing to some extent but also utilizing the other buttons (3/4) to hone in on cast rotees.

The best way that I've learned to do this is to start small, as adviced. However I recommend fully implementing the array of skills you will need on your character, but minimizing the keys via modifiers (ala 20 different attacks through using shift/ctrl/alt/nomod for keys 1-5). Then once you have mastered the controls of the first character, add in your healer. After your healer, add in your DPS, then your last DPS. The tank is VERY easy to control and allows you to multi-task with greatest efficiency without the learning curve of a N52 (which I'm still working on, and am unsure if I will further pursue).

[xum]

Also I'd like to further I utilize the following buttons:

E,F,G,Z,Q

Z = warlock's lifetap | mage's poly, mod for evoc | hex
Q = follow, shift+Q = mount
F = focus (mod keys used to micro-focus)
G = mage nova (mage was main from way back... kinda stuck)
E = assist main (mod+E = assist healer)