Are raids too easy?

[Anjuna]

Honestly, I think they should just design all future raids to be this trivial. This is coming from someone who cleared all vanilla and BC content before nerfs.

[KSboxers]

The business model they have set up for this is brilliant imho. They make the raids really tough so the people that are dead set on getting the bosses down first have a tough competition to see who can get them down. You get a few guilds on each server that can clear the endgame content and can show off all that new gear. As the release of the new endgame content gets closer they make it easier so the less hardcore guilds (and even eventually pugs) can have a chance to see it and maybe clear it before it becomes old news. Then the new dungeon comes out and the hardcore people are back to trying to get server firsts. It's a win/win. Hardcore people get to brag, softcore people get to eventually see the content also. What's the point of spending all those hours writing content that only about 20% of the population would ever get to see. I love playing the game but i'm not in to hard core raiding. If it wasn't for this process i would never get to see endgame content.

[Aethon]

Just start PuG'ing with scrub guilds like mine. Under geared toons and 1/2 the people don't know what's going on despite the explainations. We wiped a few times on Rage last night and couldn't clear the 2nd wave boss in Hyjal.

We have no problems with T4 content, but that T5/6 stuff is still throwing us for fits.

If you want it to be harder, take off some of your gear :-P

[Sct]

My guild is loving it. Before the patch we only had a few members that had been as far as SSC.... Now we're up to Bloodboil. Thx Blizz.

[Svpernova09]

You're playing 41 talent point tuned raids with a 51 point tree.

along with boss's with less 30% the hp they had, that hit less 30% than they used too.

They still hit just as hard as they used to, they just can't crush, and some bosses don't have some of the abilities they used it. Last night Al'ar only used melt armor once the entire fight. Pre-patch we were seeing it once a transition.

[elo]

Personally I'm thrilled they did this and it makes a lot of sense. I've still never even been in Naxxramas, BT, Hyjal, or SWP and now I've got a chance. Unfortunately, I'm in a mad rush to level up a couple of new toons so it looks like I'll be missing it anyhow.

I couldn't agree more that they should nerf the raids, maybe not quite as much as they have but some. During the Zombie garbage Blizz said they were focus'd on fun first, but EVERYTHING I've seen about raiding is the opposite. It's just a level of beat down and time commitment that's unacceptable. Sure, there are dozens, maybe hundreds of guilds that love it as is, but there are thousands if not 10's of thousands who just don't even get to play and that's not right. From what I've seen there are 2 kinds of hardcore raiders. Those that are sick as hell of it and those that will be. IMO they should focus on more content instead of crazy hard content that any but the best guilds will spend weeks trying to down 1 boss. I've seen dozens of guilds split over raid content and hundreds of people swapping guilds for lack of progression. The funny thing is the accepted 'custom' now is that people keep their alts in guilds with their friends and move their main to a hardcore guild to get the loot. This just isn't right, game mechanics shouldn't decide who you're going to associate with. My current guild has a lot of great players but weren't even through SSC by the time they nerfed it and they have spent MONTHS in there. It's just sickening.

[TheBigBB]

The problem with BC's raiding was that Vashj and Kael were far too difficult to begin with, and Hyjal and BT were not nearly hard enough compared. Vashj and Kael were harder than half of the bosses in BT and Hyjal! Since you originally and for a LONG time had to kill Vashj and Kael to even STEP FOOT into Hyjal and BT, that represented a HUGE difference between a guild who downed Kael and one who didn't. The guild who did would be riding to glory with mountains of easy T6 epics. The guild who didn't would be sporting relative garbage for a year to come.

They basically had no completely entry-level 25 man raid in BC. I suppose their answer now is to allow people to stick with their 10 man squads, which is fine with me, seeing as I don't have to box 25 to see what the content looks like. Although, I'm sure 25-man stuff will be cooler in terms of boss ability design.

And of course, I'd like to see raiding content have a real sloped progression where the end stuff is hard as hell, but it gradually gets there. And I'm not a person who's struggled with raid content. I did get to Illidan months ago.

Raiding is too easy right now, but it's okay because many of these raids have been out for 2 years, and all the gear is going to be water under the bridge in a month anyway.

[suprafro]

The entire game is pretty much already assessable to everyone (5/10 mans, BGs) , the only real PVE challenges are the high 25m raid instances and arenas on the PVP side. If you nerf those so that they can just be zerged down by anyone without even trying (or make the arena system moot), then there would literly be no challenge for any vetern players. People would buy the game, level a guy to 70/80, and then just quit or possibly give up sooner as they would feel like the game has nothing to offer except the leveling content

[elo]

The entire game is pretty much already assessable to everyone (5/10 mans, BGs) , the only real PVE challenges are the high 25m raid instances and arenas on the PVP side. If you nerf those so that they can just be zerged down by anyone without even trying (or make the arena system moot), then there would literly be no challenge for any vetern players. People would buy the game, level a guy to 70/80, and then just quit or possibly give up sooner as they would feel like the game has nothing to offer except the leveling content

The same can be said for people who can't/won't raid. They level to 70/80 and then just quit or give up sooner because the game has nothing to offer except the raiding content. No, the raid content shouldn't be nerfed down so that it doesn't take any effort, but the current bar is too high for the vast majority of the player base. I'm all for difficulty, with appropriate rewards, but the real crux is that in order to reach that next level of gameplay people have to dedicate far too much of their lives to it. I don't know really how to fix the problem. No matter how hard they make it (provided it's still even possible) the top guilds will always clear the stuff in a couple of weeks and then you'll have all the moderate guilds struggling for a year or more (provided they can even manage to keep their player base). That's why I think Blizz should spend less time on the raid content and more on the overall content. The 25/10 thing in Wrath is a good move towards that, it takes a LOT less effort to put together 10 man's than 25's.

[Mirina]

It's definitely turned into a snooze fest. I took my lock into Kara last week, her only "nice" gear is her FSW set, and a Belt of Blasting, and had no issues. I have never actually instanced OR raided on the toon and it was a cakewalk. Pulls that would have automatically equaled wipes pre-patch people in greens could survive. It actually depressed me a little bit as I raided T6 content on my hunter before retiring from raiding. I know they want to see content, but man if I didn't feel like the old person yelling "get off my lawn" and "I walked up hill both ways 6 miles in the snow to get to school" when people were asking if I thought Kara was easy.

The plus side is a lot of people are getting to see content, so that's cool.

The downside is that people who have never raided before are getting to see content and have no clue about how to raid. One guy was completely clueless and didn't get that because he PUGged in on a group to kill Prince that he couldn't run with us...that also brought up the explanation of what a raid ID was.

I ended up going to sleep instead of trying to get people to do interrupts/controlled burns on the Opera R&J fight. For me, it's sad seeing how I did all the content at pre-patch difficulty...I was also one of the people who griped when they removed keying from BT/MH (and I wasn't keyed yet to get in and I STILL didn't like that they removed keying), but I can't fault Blizzard for wanting to help people see content.