IS:WindowSnapper - PIP on Speed

[stealthy45]

Until Blizzard comes out and says something all this argument over if or if not something will get you banned is pointless. This is one thing that you can not argue at the moment it is a gray area.

As are the other methods of multiboxing.

[eqjoe]

Until Blizzard comes out and says something all this argument over if or if not something will get you banned is pointless. This is one thing that you can not argue at the moment it is a gray area.

While I agree with you sir, the problem is and has been that Blizzard simply will not comment one way or the other. The one time we did get confirmation that Keyclone is cool is used in a reasonable manner was a fluke. To the best of my knowledge, they have not done that for any of the other tools found here.

-j

[zanthor]

There is an inherent risk to having an open platform, people do things with them and it fires back on the platforms reputation.

So are you saying that you would not use any platform that has been utilized to create cheats/hacks/etc with?

Back on topic now...

I was going to post this in the [Other] IS:WindowSnapper - PIP on Speed, but it appears that thread got locked because of the flames.

I have a question about the multi.iss script you posted. I've looked through the source and I understand most of what is going on in the script.

However, I couldn't find any reference to what the proc lines in the case statement would actually do (i.e. proc 1 on 2 on 3 off 4 off). Could you explain that or point me to some documentation?

I've been looking at InnerSpace for a few weeks now and I'm interested in the options it can provide a multiboxer like myself who actually enjoys writing code. Your use of the IS:WindowSnapper module is very interesting and pushes my just a little be closer to making the jump from Keyclone to IS.

Sorry for the random PM from some guy you don't know. Like I said I was going to post this question in the thread.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Sivai

proc is a command supported by IS to set processor affinity, the best performance I've gotten out of wow is by splitting each wow over 2 cpu's, (one on 1,2 two on 2,3 three on 3,4 four on 4,1 and five on 1,2,3,4) so thats all the proc command is doing there.

No problem about the PM, copied it here so others can benefit.

[Sivai]

Thanks for answering my question.

So the script launches a certain number of windows, dynamically positions them, and then binds hotkeys to bring each window to the foreground. All in about 70 lines of code, not including the code from IS:WindowSnapper.

Regardless of the IS debate, I think thats pretty cool.

Thanks for sharing zanthor!

[eqjoe]

Until Blizzard comes out and says something all this argument over if or if not something will get you banned is pointless. This is one thing that you can not argue at the moment it is a gray area.

Its a potentially BANNABLE grey area.

Is it really worth the risk? Right or wrong, Blizzard calls the shots with WoW. In the end they have the final word. Why flirt with disaster?

Why? Because nothing works better for session and window management. Going from background to forground with any window of any resolution is instantaneous. There is a dozen reasons why this tool is worth looking at, and yes it is worth some risk.

Addressing the risk.... since we may never get Blizzard to give us feedback on any of the tools that we use here (except for the one exception), I believe there is the same risk using AHK and HKN. Both of those tools can be configured and used in a manner that could get you banned. These two are no different than IS and both of these tools can be configured to do some level of automation. Yet, when someone posts about either of those tools we don't get a dozen uninformed morons jumping up and down making a lot of noise.

Here is the risk assessment for me.... I have been two boxing on two different sets of toons for many months using InnerSpace. I have also used Keyclone and HKN. I have had no problems with any of these solutions. Warden could detect any and all of these tools in use with WoW. If Blizzard has any problem with me or the dozens of other guys using IS to multi-box, they would have banned/warned/suspended us months ago.

-j

[zanthor]

Going from background to forground with any window of any resolution is instantaneous.

So absurdly fast in fact, that last night my camera's happened to be so well aligned I was trying to figure out why it didn't work... when in fact it was switching, the ONLY info changing on the screen that my eyes could notice was the NAME of the toons...

5ms swaps are the average in shattrah on my quad core...

[Lax]

Thanks Phara for being respectful -- even if you disagree (whether you do or not it's your own business) it is nice to see that someone can hold a rational conversation without throwing random insults.

Steph:

Who wrote this or that extension that got people banned is pretty immaterial to me. Lax wrote IS making it a platform for anything else people wanted to do. There is an inherent risk to having an open platform, people do things with them and it fires back on the platforms reputation. Considering that Lax wrote ISXwarden and helped MDY with their hiding from warden, I think it is safe to assume that Lax does not mind at all if his products are used against the rules of the respective game. ISXwarden's purpose is to hide rule violations from detection. Lax posted in various threads here, adamantly proclaiming that IS is clean and no higher risk than another software. What he does not mention and dutifully ignores is that he designed IS as cheating tool rather than as multiboxing tool and that the software has many capabilities that are plainly not needed for boxing.

Yes, a tool is a tool. The user is responsible for what he does with it. Just like the G15. Depending on how you use it, it is against Blizzards rules or not.
The difference is that Keyclone can by design not be used to break Blizzards rules, while IS was designed to break rules.

By your argument, Windows is risky to use, and can have its reputation damaged by bots written for Windows (such as Glider). That must mean that Windows was written as a cheating tool?

Whether I "mind at all if [my] products are used against the rules of the respective game" is largely irrelevant. Let's suppose we're talking about a different game here. I'll pick something fictional for the sake of argument. Hello Kitty Island Adventure perhaps. I've never played HKIA, nor have I read through its EULA and/or ToS, but HKIA is naturally compatible with Inner Space without me touching it. People find they can simply "Add Game" from the IS menu and it works perfectly. What you're essentially suggesting is that I should be reading through the HKIA EULA and/or ToS to determine what uses of my software are within their rules, and I should be enforcing those rules? What if it's a Korean game without English translation, am I supposed to have a Korean handy to translate for me? Part of the point of an open platform that simply works with as many games as possible is so that I dont have to be the one enforcing the rules, or reading every game's EULA.

And yes, I will "adamantly proclaim" that Inner Space is "clean" in that it does not violate the Terms of Service for World of Warcraft, or any game that I'm aware of -- until you can show me the part of the Terms of Service that says it isn't, I don't think you should be claiming that it is NOT "clean". You claim that I "designed IS as a cheating tool rather than as multiboxing tool and that the software has many capabilities that are plainly not needed for boxing"... firstly, you are wrong. Inner Space was designed to replace WinEQ 2, which I don't think anyone can disagree that it is pretty much a multiboxing tool. And just so you're aware, keystroke replication was purposefully NOT implemented in WinEQ 2, because at the time I considered that to be "crossing the line". Clearly in hindsight, I should have implemented it then, but it was not until years later that it was determined to be within the rules. Back on point, in order to implement things like Picture-in-Picture better than WinEQ 2's implementation, I decided to implement a scripting language. Then I came to the realization that by allowing Inner Space to be extensible, I would be making the most powerful in-game platform for development available anywhere. While you and others may take that as "it's designed to be used for cheating", some of the first things I did with it was implement a Ventrilo overlay and a Teamspeak overlay and various other uses. Oddly enough, those are plainly NOT needed for multiboxing. That is because ... Inner Space is NOT specifically a multi-boxing tool, that is just one of many uses. In fact, you can use our new in-game Ventrilo GUI while you multi-box, all free stuff you can do with Inner Space (which as has been pointed out, is itself not free). So yes, you are absolutely right that it "has capabilities not needed for multi-boxing". However, as I have been demonstrating, it does, by design, have all of the capabilities needed for multi-boxing.

Also, eqjoe is old and has alzheimers or something (sorry Joe I'm about to debunk your post that was intended to be supportive). I will explain something that people may not realize. Inner Space was around before WoW went retail. Someone made ISXWoW, and a number of people used it for a number of months before Blizzard implemented Warden. ISXWoW users started getting banned a few months later. I was not getting involved, because that's not my bag, baby. I started working on ISXWarden after a few months when it became clear that the people working on ISXWoW were not capable of protecting the people using it, and the bans from ISXWoW even then had people worried and not wanting to try Inner Space for legitimate purposes.

Warden was labelled spyware after Greg Hoglund, from WoW!Sharp, made a big fuss over it after WoW!Sharp users were getting the hell banned out of them without any clue how to stop it, and he made a tool called Governor which he claimed could see what Warden was doing. I defended Blizzard against his ridiculous claims (http://onwarden.blogspot.com/2007/07...y-and-you.html ), and I could only have done that because, yes, I have reverse engineered Warden. Without my expert opinion -- and I don't have to be self-proclaimed expert on that, but I know you will take it as such -- the only available opinion of whether Warden is spyware, is from a real self-proclaimed expert who has been selling his book based on controversy he for the most part made up. Then the EFF and others took up the cause. I don't think there is any current argument claiming that Warden is spyware, other than from the uninformed masses. Really, it's not much different in that respect than all of the uninformed talk here about Inner Space. I've already shown that Hoglund's argument is farce or hiding the truth, yet the claims still get made.

Also, with regards to whether Inner Space is going to get you banned or not, I will say that when you launch World of Warcraft, a thing known as SCAN.DLL does some scanning before you even log in. Its main purpose (as I understand it) is to find keyloggers and trojans in order to try to prevent people from falling victim to the most popular traps. Another thing it does is scan for various known hacks and cheats, in order to provide a nice way of suggesting to the user to make the decision to NOT use those hacks or cheats. If they decide that use of Inner Space alone is worthy of a ban, and people are using it for a legitimate purpose such as multi-boxing, Ventrilo overlay, in-game AIM or IRC, etc, they would be very likely to check for Inner Space as part of the SCAN.DLL scanning process. They are not looking to do a "gotcha" and ban people who are not doing anything wrong, and that includes multi-boxing -- they have already said that multi-boxing is okay. If you think they are just going to up and ban people for doing something that would appear to most people as being legitimate in itself, I would say you're off your rocker. If you hadn't heard of ISXWarden or ISXWoW, or bots used for Inner Space, you wouldn't even know to be making these silly arguments against Inner Space. And I'm not even the one promoting those things.

[Crucial]

Lax - could you do us all a favour and press Blizzard to OK Innerspace in whatever capacity is acceptable to them so that we don't have to feel like our accounts are at risk if we so much as load it up. The only opinion that matters to me on this topic is Blizzards, as I already know from using the product what it is technically capable of...

[zanthor]

Lax - could you do us all a favour and press Blizzard to OK Innerspace in whatever capacity is acceptable to them so that we don't have to feel like our accounts are at risk if we so much as load it up. The only opinion that matters to me on this topic is Blizzards, as I already know from using the product what it is technically capable of...

Blizzard as a general rule won't approve anything. This is their safety net, and I can guarantee that this policy won't change. The approval KeyClone has gotten has all been with disclaimers attached, and it's an anomoly that it has been granted even that much of a blessing, no other tool has been cited by name.

not Octopus.
not AutoHotKey
not HotKeyNet

What blizzard has stated, time and again, is that one action has to equal one action, and that as long as it's not automation, it's fine.

[Crucial]

Lax - could you do us all a favour and press Blizzard to OK Innerspace in whatever capacity is acceptable to them so that we don't have to feel like our accounts are at risk if we so much as load it up. The only opinion that matters to me on this topic is Blizzards, as I already know from using the product what it is technically capable of...

Blizzard as a general rule won't approve anything. This is their safety net, and I can guarantee that this policy won't change. The approval KeyClone has gotten has all been with disclaimers attached, and it's an anomoly that it has been granted even that much of a blessing, no other tool has been cited by name.

not Octopus.
not AutoHotKey
not HotKeyNet

What blizzard has stated, time and again, is that one action has to equal one action, and that as long as it's not automation, it's fine.

Given the complexity of what you can do with Innerspace and the scripting capabilties you are probably right, they will never officially give it a blessing. I'd be nice to just have some assurance from them that Warden won't pick it up and flag us for the next ban wave later down the road you know?