IS:WindowSnapper - PIP on Speed

[PyrostasisTDK]

If it makes you feel better Lax I appreciate your work and your help on the forums, with out your software I wouldnt be able to box in the games that I do.

[Steph]

What I find amusing is that Lax is bringing up his product here on dual-boxing.com again and again. Each time, he goes on to explain that his product is not just white, but pure. Only evil or stupid people would ever use the dirty extensions and get banned! That of course has nothing to do with him whatsoever, even though he wrote and distributed these extensions. Compartmentalizing the free dirty modules and the sale of the base application is nothing but a smokescreen and an argumentative tool. At the end of the day, the banned people paid for the base application and got the dirty extensions free with the same natural person behind both, who then goes on and claims to have nothing to do with the dirty bits. =]

What it comes down to is trust. Knowing that any software you run could do things that you don't like, whom do you trust enough to run their software on your system? When comparing Lax with his bannable extensions and his helping hand for MDY and a 'do whatever you can most likely get away with' attitude with Rob who has been always extremely conscious of limiting his software's capabilities to what he is reasonably certain will not cause any problems, I can not help but laugh at the notion to go with Lax's products. Lax has written and distributed addons to this product which have gotten people banned. That is enough information on him for me. I am sure he is good at what he does, but considering what I can see of his attitude and questionable morality, I don't want anything to do with his shady products.

[kipperflip]

What I find amusing is that Lax is bringing up his product here on dual-boxing.com again and again.

I thought this thread was started by a veteran of this community?

What it comes down to is trust. Knowing that any software you run could do things that you don't like, whom do you trust enough to run their software on your system?

Well, I've been running software from Lax for approximately 2.5 years, I trust him, so does that mean I'm free to take advantage of whichever product works best for me?

I can understand supporting someone who has given to this community like the maker of Keyclone has. I get that. In fact, I'll bet there are people on this forum who will refuse to use anything else, ever, because they want to support Keyclone. That's cool.

However, to me, this is a game. I want every advantage I can get. I mean, isn't that what boxing is all about? So I'm going to take a look at everything available to me.

Isn't that what the OP is doing?

No one has presented any specific information that indicates that using Inner Space in the manner the OP is doing is any more bannable than keyclone. In fact, from what I can see, the only people presenting credible arguments are the people in support of Inner Space. It sounds like the opposition is boiling down to, "but he has a bad rep". No, I'm not ignoring the fact that there are people that used Inner Space in ways that got them banned. However, that's not what the OP is talking about.

Tell you what, can we agree to disagree on the "rep" issue and get back on topic and let those of us who are confident in our ability to use Inner Space in an appropriate manner discuss ways in which it is best to do so?

[zanthor]

What I find amusing is that Lax is bringing up his product here on dual-boxing.com again and again.

I challenge you to show me a single thread started by Lax, or a thread where any other topic was discussed and Lax posted saying "Innerspace can do that better" before someone else brought up IS.

That of course has nothing to do with him whatsoever, even though he wrote and distributed these extensions.

Where has Lax EVER claimed he had nothing to do with ISXWarden? I can think of several posts where he does claim it.

Seriously, guns don't kill people, blood loss and/or trauma kills people, bullets fired from guns handled by people cause blood loss and/or trauma.

[phara]

I just have a few final comments for this. First, stop attacking Lax just for posting about his product - someone else posted a thread about his product, and someone else (me) asked a question about it. I'd expect him to respond.

Let me say from a software perspective I think both IS and keyclone are cool products and I respect the development effort that went into each. That said, all of us have to accept that the community will always be divided on software like IS, period.

My only comment about the debate is that every boxer that uses a third party product has to evaluate and accept the level of risk(of banning) that goes with it. Lax you've made some great points on many threads about how various uses of IS are not evil and don't currently result in bans (like with this DX issue I totally see your point). At the end of the day, blizz is agressive about banning things they consider unfair, and some of us (including me) see the potential for IS to be abused and get caught up in bans. Maybe we're wrong and that day will never come, or maybe some kid will publish his IS hack tomorrow and IS will be banned forever. Maybe firefox will be banned! Who knows?!?!

I work with a guy who won't drink pasturized milk becasue he thinks it damages his body. I don't attack, berate, or debate with him; I just accept that he won't accept the level of risk associated with drinking pasturized milk. We could have an intelligent discussion where we'd both be right, but at the end of the day we'll still be drinking different milk.

[stealthy45]

Only evil or stupid people would ever use the dirty extensions and get banned! That of course has nothing to do with him whatsoever, even though he wrote and distributed these extensions.

He did write one extension, ISXWarden, and distribute it for a while, for reasons unknown to me. It's a safe bet that he didn't want to lose customers who were using IS for one of its many possible uses. AFAIK, that's the only ToS-violating extension he has written, though you're free to show me proof otherwise.

ISXWoW was not written by Lax, but by an entirely differenet crew. Lax has not taken part in distribution of ISXWoW - it was available for download on the website one of the devs hosted.

Lax has written and distributed addons to this product which have gotten people banned.

ISXWoW/ISXWarden were known to be ToS-violating and therefore bannable, and anyone who got banned using them knew it could very well happen because they were using extensions that we KNEW Blizzard is against.
Vanilla IS isn't getting accounts banned. I'm currently dualboxing a pair of mages using IS, following the "one action == one action" rule (to the point of even using separate buttons for relaying a target and relaying a follow), to no ill effects.

[Steph]

Who wrote this or that extension that got people banned is pretty immaterial to me. Lax wrote IS making it a platform for anything else people wanted to do. There is an inherent risk to having an open platform, people do things with them and it fires back on the platforms reputation. Considering that Lax wrote ISXwarden and helped MDY with their hiding from warden, I think it is safe to assume that Lax does not mind at all if his products are used against the rules of the respective game. ISXwarden's purpose is to hide rule violations from detection. Lax posted in various threads here, adamantly proclaiming that IS is clean and no higher risk than another software. What he does not mention and dutifully ignores is that he designed IS as cheating tool rather than as multiboxing tool and that the software has many capabilities that are plainly not needed for boxing.

Yes, a tool is a tool. The user is responsible for what he does with it. Just like the G15. Depending on how you use it, it is against Blizzards rules or not.
The difference is that Keyclone can by design not be used to break Blizzards rules, while IS was designed to break rules.

[stealthy45]

What he does not mention and dutifully ignores is that he designed IS as cheating tool rather than as multiboxing tool and that the software has many capabilities that are plainly not needed for boxing.

Uhm, as you just said:

Lax wrote IS making it a platform for anything else people wanted to do.

He wrote it as an open platform, not a cheating tool or multiboxing tool, you're contradicting yourself.

You're right, the fact that a lot of people ended up using IS for botting does leave quite a stigma.

The difference is that Keyclone can by design not be used to break Blizzards rules, while IS was designed to break rules.

Find me a quote or other source where it is stated that IS was "designed to break rules".

[eqjoe]

Who wrote this or that extension that got people banned is pretty immaterial to me. Lax wrote IS making it a platform for anything else people wanted to do. There is an inherent risk to having an open platform, people do things with them and it fires back on the platforms reputation. Considering that Lax wrote ISXwarden and helped MDY with their hiding from warden, I think it is safe to assume that Lax does not mind at all if his products are used against the rules of the respective game. ISXwarden's purpose is to hide rule violations from detection. Lax posted in various threads here, adamantly proclaiming that IS is clean and no higher risk than another software. What he does not mention and dutifully ignores is that he designed IS as cheating tool rather than as multiboxing tool and that the software has many capabilities that are plainly not needed for boxing.

Yes, a tool is a tool. The user is responsible for what he does with it. Just like the G15. Depending on how you use it, it is against Blizzards rules or not.
The difference is that Keyclone can by design not be used to break Blizzards rules, while IS was designed to break rules.

So... you are clairvoyant and you know that Lax wrote IS as a tool to cheat. Why would Lax mention that he designed IS as a cheating tool when that is bullshit? Lax did not write a solution to cheat using IS. Other devs wrote those applications and some of them are making a lot of money as a result. If Lax was so very interested in cheating, don't you think he would be making some of that cash? ISXWarden has been discontinued for a long time. There is also a very good argument that by itself, ISXWarden was beguine. ISXWarden addressed a privacy issue regarding Blizzard's Warden process as it violated our personal rights. To assume you know what or why Lax wrote IS or anything else is wrong.

-j

EDIT: It was the EFF that declared Warden as spyware. Here is one of dozens of news articles on the subject. This one is by BBC : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4385050.stm

[Schwarz]

Until Blizzard comes out and says something all this argument over if or if not something will get you banned is pointless. This is one thing that you can not argue at the moment it is a gray area.