[Discuss] Mouse vs Click Broadcasting

[Lax]

Umm... Slouken very specifically said AddOns, he did not give a general statement about multi-boxing at all in that quote, and I don't think it should be implied that he intended to say anything other than what he very specifically said. That is why I correctly stated, that he did not imply that multi-boxers cannot click. YOU are telling me what he "intended" to say, I am reading his quote verbatim. I am offended that you modified my post to comply with your incorrect interpretation of what he said.

While the use of the mouse to click on point A on screen 1 and point A on screen 2 is a little less questionable than the preceding example, it can still lead to some interesting and questionable uses of it.

Indeed, he did say "less questionable" and therefore it is IMPLIED, not explicitly stated, based on his post, that click replication is okay. I'm not the only one who read it as such -- the community MVP did as well. Therefore, it is IMPLIED by the thread, that it is okay. I really don't know where you're getting off editing my post here.

Let's take an example: take a solo boxer and let's pretend there's a 3rd party addon for solo-boxers that hooks into WoW and can send mouseclick events to x,y locations. The solo boxer would like to make a macro that casts Mass Dispell. The solo boxer sets up a portion of their UI on this 3rd party addon, with a little button for them to click on that sends a macro:
/cast Mass Dispell
MOUSECLICK X,Y

We're talking about 2 different things, I am talking about replicating a mouse click. A solo boxer is already clicking at X,Y. Someone using Repeater is ALSO clicking at X,Y. Repeater is simply taking that click, and repeating it in the other windows. What you are talking about is making a button that clicks at X,Y regardless of the current position of the mouse or whether it was indeed a click. I did not demonstrate, at any point, clicking on a UI mod that moves the mouse to a position other than the current position of the mouse.

[Vyndree]

Indeed, he did say "less questionable" and therefore it is IMPLIED, not explicitly stated, based on his post, that click replication is okay.

"Gold buying is less questionable than botting"

Am I therefore IMPLYing that gold buying is okay? You can infer it and put words into my mouth all you want, I implied nothing of the sort.


You are walking on very thin ice with me. I do not take well to false representation of official blue posters words.

We're talking about 2 different things, I am talking about replicating a mouse click.

And I'm talking about what? Fluffy bunnies?

I am still talking about the same subject. You are claiming that 1) the blues are OK with click replication. There has been no proof (in fact, if you look at Reythur's post he recommends staying AWAY from it) to support this. You are also claiming that 2) the blues only have issues with the precedent of targeting an AoE using an in-game macro, and since your mouseclicks happen out-of game (and are "the same" as keyclicks -- see point #1) that they are OK. I am saying that the rules for in-game macros/addons also apply to out-of-game macros/addons. We're not talking about ClickBoxer (which is why I seperated this thread from yours). We're not talking about Repeater. We're talking about replicating mouse events in GENERAL.

A solo boxer is already clicking at X,Y. Someone using Repeater is ALSO clicking at X,Y. Repeater is simply taking that click, and repeating it in the other windows. What you are talking about is making a button that clicks at X,Y regardless of the current position of the mouse or whether it was indeed a click. I did not demonstrate, at any point, clicking on a UI mod that moves the mouse to a position other than the current position of the mouse.

Neither did Reythur, he's still talking about 1-to-1 clicks as well.

While the use of the mouse to click on point A on screen 1 and point A on screen 2 is a little less questionable than the preceding example, it can still lead to some interesting and questionable uses of it.

Neither of your points are supported by the blues. The insinuation that they are, is what is making me angry. This is an opinion thread -- you're welcome to share your opinion. What you're not welcome to do is obfuscate opinion with fact -- particularly when the facts you're obfuscating are official blue posters' words and intentions.

[snaeb]

Indeed, he did say "less questionable" and therefore it is IMPLIED, not explicitly stated, based on his post, that click replication is okay.

"Gold buying is less questionable than botting"

Am I therefore IMPLYing that gold buying is okay? You can infer it and put words into my mouth all you want, I implied nothing of the sort.


You are walking on very thin ice with me. I do not take well to false representation of official blue posters words.

We're talking about 2 different things, I am talking about replicating a mouse click.

And I'm talking about what? Fluffy bunnies?

I am still talking about the same subject. You are claiming that 1) the blues are OK with click replication. There has been no proof (in fact, if you look at Reythur's post he recommends staying AWAY from it) to support this. You are also claiming that 2) the blues only have issues with the precedent of targeting an AoE using an in-game macro, and since your mouseclicks happen out-of game (and are "the same" as keyclicks -- see point #1) that they are OK. I am saying that the rules for in-game macros/addons also apply to out-of-game macros/addons. We're not talking about ClickBoxer (which is why I seperated this thread from yours). We're not talking about Repeater. We're talking about replicating mouse events in GENERAL.


Neither of your points are supported by the blues. The insinuation that they are, is what is making me angry. This is an opinion thread -- you're welcome to share your opinion. What you're not welcome to do is obfuscate opinion with fact -- particularly when the facts you're obfuscating are official blue posters' words and intentions.

Sounds to me like the Blizzard rep was not sure either way. It sounds like you are trying to push this issue into a bigger issue than it really is. I read this thread. You dont use Clickboxer, why are you making a big deal out of it? Why dont you let the folks that use Clickboxer worry about Clickboxer. BTW - I use a program called 'Replicate'. No I dont need you to start a thread on it. I did my own research and I know what it does, therefore I know its fine. You dont speak for me or most of the people in the DB community. The community is much larger than these forums as this is not the only game that people dual box. Seriously though - you are coming off as a whiny stuck up bitch trying to force feed your idea of what is right and wrong to everyone. If you did that dudes post to manipulate what 'he was saying', you should be kicked in the head.

Go have a coke and a smile - stfu.

[Suvega]

Sounds to me like the Blizzard rep was not sure either way. It sounds like you are trying to push this issue into a bigger issue than it really is. I read this thread. You dont use Clickboxer, why are you making a big deal out of it? Why dont you let the folks that use Clickboxer worry about Clickboxer.

Go have a coke and a smile - stfu.

LOL at insulting people in a opinion thread. Thats rich.

ROFL at it being the cause of you registering... lol you are an awesome individual sir.

[Vyndree]

You dont use Clickboxer, why are you making a big deal out of it? Why dont you let the folks that use Clickboxer worry about Clickboxer.

Because what the ClickBoxers do affect the reputation of all multiboxers -- not just ClickBoxers.

This isn't a thread about ClickBoxer. It's a thread about mouse replication. ClickBoxer falls into this bucket -- but as Lax attempts to point out there's capabilities in Keyclone and other products for this as well (or so he claims -- I haven't heard of nonrelative mouse movements on any other products before).

I make a big deal out of it because it's such a complicated problem that the BLUEs can't even give us a definitive answer on whether it's allowed or not. Don't you think that's concerning? The impact of their confirmation of whether or not mouse multiplexing is so vast that it WILL impact all of us multiboxers (and potentially solo boxers who want to utilize clicks for AoE spells, if the impact is wide enough). That's not something to be personally concerned about?

I make a big deal out of Lax's post because it deliberately mis-quotes and mis-guides people about the content of blue posts and their "implications" and what they "meant to say".


EDIT: Thanks Fur. For reference, this is why I care and why I'm personally invested in the interests of multiboxers...

Because I am the primary contributor for this page: http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/inde..._Conversations (see http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/inde...action=history)
Because I was the one who wrote this: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...88579356&sid=1 (which was subsequently stickied here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...79803345&sid=1 )
Because I have this sort of impact on the CS forums when multiboxing questions come into play: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...355076&sid=1#6 ; http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...37225&sid=1#56

I care about my hobby. I care about everyone's account safety. I care about the reputation of multiboxers as a whole. And I most vehemently care that our relationship with Blizzard is not tarnished because we choose to purposely misquote them for our own personal agenas.

As people on this forum already know -- I will be a b*tch when Blizzard and their rules are being tramped on. Take a look at the multitude of account sharing/selling/transferring posts and who's been locking them.

[snaeb]

Sounds to me like the Blizzard rep was not sure either way. It sounds like you are trying to push this issue into a bigger issue than it really is. I read this thread. You dont use Clickboxer, why are you making a big deal out of it? Why dont you let the folks that use Clickboxer worry about Clickboxer.

Go have a coke and a smile - stfu.

Vyndree is without a doubt the public face of multiboxing when it comes to communication directly with Blizzard reps. She has cleared up more possible issues with blizzard than everyone else combined, taking it upon herself to make sure the things we do will not get our accounts banned and at the same time squash the retards that try and make up myths about us.

Looks like you're new here - or trolling under a differnet name to avoid defaming your "main" account here. Whatever the case, consider this your warning. Play nice or GTFO.

EDIT: Damn it Suvega! lol

Ive been multi-boxing games since the late 90's and yeah this thread was worthwhile because for some odd reason certain people feel like they are the voice for everyone. I assure you of one fact, you are not now and never will be the voice of me. None of you. Its pretty obvious from where this has been going she has personal interest in burying this guy and its not right.

I dont play Warcraft but I assume that multiboxing rules are pretty much the same between wow and other mmo's. A better approach would have been emailing customer service to get an answer and then make a sticky thread containing the information. Since you are 'so respected' in the multiboxing community that should have been sufficient. Instead you are trying to push your own agenda and fight with this guy on the forums which doesnt say much for any of you.

Lastly - stop implying you speak for everyone, you dont. We have a voice and if we feel we need to say something, we are capable of registering an account and adding a reply.

I guess what Im trying to say is STFU and email your game's customer service department and stop this soap opera bullshit.

[Lax]

Look, Vyndree, if you want to argue over random words all day long, I can do it.

I did not put any words in a blue poster's mouth. I said it was implied by the thread, being an aggregation of several posts. At no point did I say that a blue poster explicitly stated that what I'm talking about is 100% legitimate, and in fact I didn't even specify blue or the poster. I am not "falsely interpreting" anyone, in fact based on this thread and the previous threads, I would say you are very much falsely interpreting both me and Souken, and probably a number of other people.

What I am saying about minimap ping is that you are putting words in their mouths, and I see absolutely no backup of your claim that any blue poster said multi-boxers should not be able to manually click on the ground. I quoted the original blue post, which very specifically said ____________ may not do ________. You're adding words into the blanks (multiboxing, to prevent clicking on the GROUND, etc) I am merely regurgitating what he very specifically stated.

I did not say that you are implying that gold buying is okay when you say that it is "less questionable than botting". Personally, I took "less questionable" in this context to be stronger than you did, and so apparently did Cogwheel and Souca, and based on the content of the thread, I read it as implying that it is okay -- particularly given the first response, to the post where you said that ClickBoxer was doing something that it is clearly not, when based on that information he gave a distinctly negative answer, I would say that the new response is not negative, and retracts his earlier statement that it is not okay.

This isn't a thread about ClickBoxer. It's a thread about mouse replication. ClickBoxer falls into this bucket -- but as Lax attempts to point out there's capabilities in Keyclone and other products for this as well (or so he claims -- I haven't heard of nonrelative mouse movements on any other products before).

Please quote me, I don't remember specifying that KeyClone has absolute mouse positioning. I don't know the full capabilities of KeyClone. What I said was, I'm surprised this is new to anyone.

I make a big deal out of Lax's post because it deliberately mis-quotes and mis-guides people about the content of blue posts and their "implications" and what they "meant to say".

Please see my statement about minimap pings. If you can provide a quote that backs up your position that blues said multi-boxers can't click on the ground, that might help your case. You on the other hand have very clearly misguided people both on here and on worldofwarcraft.com. Pot, meet kettle.

[snaeb]

You dont use Clickboxer, why are you making a big deal out of it? Why dont you let the folks that use Clickboxer worry about Clickboxer.

Because what the ClickBoxers do affect the reputation of all multiboxers -- not just ClickBoxers.

This isn't a thread about ClickBoxer. It's a thread about mouse replication. ClickBoxer falls into this bucket -- but as Lax attempts to point out there's capabilities in Keyclone and other products for this as well (or so he claims -- I haven't heard of nonrelative mouse movements on any other products before).

I make a big deal out of it because it's such a complicated problem that the BLUEs can't even give us a definitive answer on whether it's allowed or not. Don't you think that's concerning? The impact of their confirmation of whether or not mouse multiplexing is so vast that it WILL impact all of us multiboxers (and potentially solo boxers who want to utilize clicks for AoE spells, if the impact is wide enough). That's not something to be personally concerned about?

I make a big deal out of Lax's post because it deliberately mis-quotes and mis-guides people about the content of blue posts and their "implications" and what they "meant to say".


EDIT: Thanks Fur. For reference, this is why I care and why I'm personally invested in the interests of multiboxers...

Because I am the primary contributor for this page: http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/inde..._Conversations (see http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/inde...action=history)
Because I was the one who wrote this: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...88579356&sid=1 (which was subsequently stickied here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...79803345&sid=1 )
Because I have this sort of impact on the CS forums when multiboxing questions come into play: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...355076&sid=1#6 ; http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...37225&sid=1#56

I care about my hobby. I care about everyone's account safety. I care about the reputation of multiboxers as a whole. And I most vehemently care that our relationship with Blizzard is not tarnished because we choose to purposely misquote them for our own personal agenas.

As people on this forum already know -- I will be a b*tch when Blizzard and their rules are being tramped on. Take a look at the multitude of account sharing/selling/transferring posts and who's been locking them.

Thats great - again I dont play Warcraft so I didnt see the Warcraft post. You need to conduct your 'investigation' in a more appropriate manner if you are going to continue this crusade as everyones guardian and seeker of all that is safe and true. At least act like an adult, thats all Im saying. Right now, I'd say a line was crossed. Dont you think? Stop and ask yourself if this isnt even a little bit about more than dual-boxing.

[snaeb]

Ive been multi-boxing games since the late 90's and yeah this thread was worthwhile because for some odd reason certain people feel like they are the voice for everyone. I assure you of one fact, you are not now and never will be the voice of me. None of you. Its pretty obvious from where this has been going she has personal interest in burying this guy and its not right.

I dont play Warcraft but I assume that multiboxing rules are pretty much the same between wow and other mmo's. A better approach would have been emailing customer service to get an answer and then make a sticky thread containing the information. Since you are 'so respected' in the multiboxing community that should have been sufficient. Instead you are trying to push your own agenda and fight with this guy on the forums which doesnt say much for any of you.

This isnt in a Warcraft forum is it? Its about a product called Clickboxer. I guess thats why I care. I read the thread and it sounded interesting to a point. Hostility is dropped, just dont speak for me. She speaks for herself, nobody else. Most folks on these forums have brains enough to know if what they are doing is more than just extended key clicks to other sessions. Trust me, the average e-tard doesnt know the first thing about multiboxing, you cant claim ignorance here.


Well maybe you should drop the hostility and join the discussion instead.

I honestly think you're reading in between the lines. Better yet your kicking up dirt about a BLIZZARD forum thread - and you claim to not even play WoW? So WTF do you care?

[Vyndree]

You need to conduct your 'investigation' in a more appropriate manner if you are going to continue this crusade as everyones guardian and seeker of all that is safe and true. At least act like an adult, thats all Im saying. Right now, I'd say a line was crossed. Dont you think? Stop and ask yourself if this isnt even a little bit about more than dual-boxing.

Why? Are you also saying that "I meant to say" or that I "implied" something? Can you quote it for me?

The 'investigation' is over. It's in Blizzard's hands, and they are telling us "We can't say yes or no" so for now, they (yes, THEY.. I can quote them saying this) "recommend not using it" until they can.

It's not OUR investigation. It's THEIRS. I did my part as the good dual-boxer and brought it to their attention. I did my part for the community by asking Blizzard for their investigation and resolution. And I've done my part by bringing their response back to the community.

Of course, you've done your part of trolling the forums on your first post. And you were warned. I do thank you for sharing your opinion (though it probably would've sufficed to do so privately) about how you recommend that the community you were so barely 2-posts part of should be run. I hope you enjoy your vacation from it.