Post patch test run of my elemental 5 box. What happened??

[Multibocks]

Ok go here forums.elitistjerks.com and then go to the class forums and then look at the elemental thread. I would link it but I got banned for a week (didnt read forum rules.) Go ahead and do that, I tempted to leave some parting choice words for you, but I guess I will be bigger than that. Enjoy your read, those people break down classes to the most miniscule detail and it's a great read.

here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...44155&sid=2000
and here(shaman problems in general) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...76752&sid=2000
another http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...99789&sid=2000

oh and here's a dps report of Patchwerk on beta
http://gwai.org/Stasis/Beta/sws-patc...691/index.html
this is a stationary all out dps fight, and where do shaman come in? 10th, woohoo!

p.s. I guess I'm not bigger than I thought, so I will part with this

another edit:
newest beta build has a nice small buff for shaman 75+

Glyph of Flame Shock - Increases the duration of your Flame Shock ability by 6 sec and it is not consumed by casting Lava Burst. (Old - 3 seconds, didn't prevent Lava Burst from consuming it)

which is pretty cool, however go look at all the druid balance buffs. It's insane.

[TheBigBB]

Ok go here forums.elitistjerks.com and then go to the class forums and then look at the elemental thread. I would link it but I got banned for a week (didnt read forum rules.) Go ahead and do that, I tempted to leave some parting choice words for you, but I guess I will be bigger than that. Enjoy your read, those people break down classes to the most miniscule detail and it's a great read.

here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...44155&sid=2000
and here(shaman problems in general) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...76752&sid=2000
another http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...99789&sid=2000

oh and here's a dps report of Patchwerk on beta
http://gwai.org/Stasis/Beta/sws-patc...691/index.html
this is a stationary all out dps fight, and where do shaman come in? 10th, woohoo!

p.s. I guess I'm not bigger than I thought, so I will part with this

I said what I said to make a point, not to be a jerk. I said nothing inflammatory about you as a person, only about your post. You did, in fact, mischaracterize what the Blizzard posters said and twisted their words to fit your point. Linking those quotes adds a lot to the discussion, paraphrasing them into your own words doesn't. Just because the Blizzard posters in question aren't here to defend themselves doesn't make it okay or even nice to misquote them. If this all offends you, then I can't say I'm surprised you got banned from another forum.

EDIT: By the way, I actually think you're probably right about druids getting buffed too much and shaman not being equal, however, the expansion is still quite some weeks away, and a lot has changed in a very short amount of time. I'm 100% sure they aren't done balancing the game yet.

[Multibocks]

About what blizzard said, one of the blue actually said we do too much LB damage and parted with the "totems are now 5 mins" line (as if that is a buff to our damage.) I'm just pointing this out and harping on it, because nothing has been done for 2ish months in beta about Shaman Elemental dps and I'm starting to get concerned that we will be the "loladin" (ya know before Rets were gods) spec in Lich King.

here's another thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...61808&sid=2000
being barely above tanks in dps is not what I consider acceptable.

Funny thing is, even if nothing is done I still have a moonkin group that I can fall back to for MBing. I just like my shaman a lot is all.

[Rudi89]

I'm just pointing this out and harping on it, because nothing has been done for 2ish months in beta about Shaman Elemental dps and I'm starting to get concerned that we will be the "loladin" (ya know before Rets were gods) spec in Lich King.

Yep, my concern is after playing and raiding as a mage for TBC that Blizz is going to have the same flawed math/scenarios/modeling that led them to nerf mages so badly heading into TBC but in this case apply it to shammies heading into WotLK.

[Drakkun]

Per http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...75297&sid=2000

Lava Burst and Lightning Bolt -- And now for a few words on Elemental damage. One of the things we were trying to do to make Elemental dps more interesting was to have a Lava Burst + Flameshock variant. We also themed some new deep talents to support this play style. The problem is that lightning still seems to do more damage than fire, which in turn makes the new talents feel lame because they benefit fire and not lightning.

Now we think that Lava Burst is doing appropriate damage for its cost and if anything Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning are a little too good. (Remember they benefit from Curse of the Elements and similar spells now.) However, nerfing lightning would make it harder to level as well as making 3.0.2 kind of brutal for Elemental shamans, since Lava Burst is level 75. Hurting lightning would feel like a flat out nerf, and even though you'd partially make up for it at higher level, overall we think this would feel, um, yucky. So no big changes to lightning spells.

We talked a lot about just buffing Lava Burst and a deep fire-based talent or two. This will make Lava Burst too good on paper, but it might work out okay in the game itself. We'll just have to see. We aren't 100% sold on this course of action, so I'll update when we decide for sure.

[Drakkun]

About what blizzard said, one of the blue actually said we do too much LB damage and parted with the "totems are now 5 mins" line (as if that is a buff to our damage.) I'm just pointing this out and harping on it, because nothing has been done for 2ish months in beta about Shaman Elemental dps and I'm starting to get concerned that we will be the "loladin" (ya know before Rets were gods) spec in Lich King.

here's another thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...61808&sid=2000
being barely above tanks in dps is not what I consider acceptable.

Funny thing is, even if nothing is done I still have a moonkin group that I can fall back to for MBing. I just like my shaman a lot is all.

Reading the post, they aren't maximizing their dps with the rotations they are using.

This is close, but in the wrong order...

Date: 10-12-2008
http://wmo.ngacn.cc/combat/587142 Boorah: 3075 combat dps
Possible dps rotation: LBx2 CL FlS > LvB. Some variation there of.
Top dps: 4364 (rogue combat swords spec)

It would be higher DPS to go FlS LBx2 CL LvB. Don't forget the dot from FlS is stronger now and will increase your DPS while casting other spells. To waste a FlS immediately with a LvB doesn't make sense.

[Multibocks]

1. Read the EJ forum for a correct rotation.
2. LvB being buffed 10% in damage is actually BAD. Hello scaling? Ya we miss you. Also, due to cooldown, LvB will only make up a small portion of our damage. Also notice that they said LB and CL are "a little too good," in the blue post you linked (which btw is old in terms of beta posts.) Nerfing a coefficient means we start off good and then become bad, comparitively.
3. EJ have spreadsheets and raid dps reports that are very similar to what was posted from the official forums.
4. Blue has asked that shamans in beta supply WWS of raids to find out what is the disconnect between their "spreadsheets" and what shamans are getting in beta. This is the latest post from blue, but again I wonder if they think that 10% buff to LvB damage will cover it. I'm waiting for new WWS reports to start coming in.

oh and something I didnt address from TheBigBB, I don't have a problem with people questioning my sources. Not at all, in fact I love that every EJ thread has tons of supporting work and I actually follow the links to make sure people are doing their homework. What I do have a problem with is people taking shots. Seriously did you think making up that post and following up with was gonna make us friends? Seriously? Maybe you should ponder how you are coming across next time.

[TheBigBB]

oh and something I didnt address from TheBigBB, I don't have a problem with people questioning my sources. Not at all, in fact I love that every EJ thread has tons of supporting work and I actually follow the links to make sure people are doing their homework. What I do have a problem with is people taking shots. Seriously did you think making up that post and following up with was gonna make us friends? Seriously? Maybe you should ponder how you are coming across next time.

You took a shot at the Blue posters, which was uncalled for. You don't need to do that to make your point. Just because most of what you are saying is backed by strong support from EJ doesn't mean it's okay to make up that Blizzard is belligerent and unhelpful on this issue. I was very serious about my response, and talking down to me and babying me and threatening to personally insult me isn't going to change my mind or resolve it. I don't care if you're mad that I called you out. I wonder how you would like if I paraphrased your words in another thread to make a serious point about you. Think about it.

[Arryth]

I would like to offer the counterpoint that I didn't see a ~20% loss but an increase according to recount.

When I did my heroics pre 3.0 I was around 1100dps now that 3.0.2 hit I am sitting at 1300dps.

Do you have any +haste stuff? I am not sure but I have a feeling that this has something to do with my increase in dps.

I have some +spell haste, but did not make an attempt to stack it... Ill try that out this week and see if it helps.

[Arryth]

I'm not holding my breath, they have multiple reports and every time a blue responds to a shaman thread it's usually something along the lines of "we are happy with elemental dps, in fact LB dps may be too high, oh and you have totems." Anyways, I saw the new build on beta and druid balance got BUFFED even more, ridiculous, but at the same time makes me happy I have a team of druids.

Amen on that one brother.... Multiple teams to be resistant to the nerf bat is the way of the future I am afraid. Fortunately.. its only getting that first team that is any kind of challange, once one is done, the others come eazy peazy.