Clickboxer - new key broadcasting software

[Lax]

In what manner does IS interact with the WoW client? Does it behave as a DirectInput device to send key or mouse clicks? Does it have access to any client memory? Can an addon running in WoW communicate with IS, which I assume is running external to the client and not as a addon, and can IS send info back to that addon in a manner other than keystrokes or mouse clicks? When multiboxing with IS, you mention clicking a in game UI button which then triggers actions on other clients; how is that message sent to the other clients?

Sorry for the specific technical questions, but like Xzin, I want to understand how IS works.

- Souca -

Inner Space runs inside the client's memory space (the name Inner Space is meant to hint at this). It interacts by providing a layer between the game, and Windows. All input systems used by games are virtualized by Inner Space and combined into a single interface, so that regardless of what input system the game is using (DirectInput, win32, etc), it should simply work. There are bugs sometimes with the virtualized input system, so some games the input does not seem to work -- this is pretty rare but is the most common reason for Inner Space not being compatible with a given game. For example, I just heard recently that Battlefield 2 seems to have this problem. When I find out about bugs like this, I usually try to get them solved as soon as possible. With the virtualized input system, Inner Space is actually processing all of the input the game receives, before the game receives it, and any keys or mouse clicks to be emulated are simply input into the stream as if it were actually pressed.

The message being sent to other clients is sent via Inter-Process Communication to another Inner Space session (e.g. an instance of WoW using Inner Space), which can use the system described above to emulate keystrokes or mouse clicks. If the session is on a remote PC, the message is sent via TCP between the Uplinks (what the IS main program is called) as long as they are networked (disabled by default). When you click on a ClickBoxer button, it executes a command like so:

relay all press alt+f

"relay" in this case is the name of a command which can pass another command to one or more sessions. In this case, it is being sent to "all", which means all sessions but the one relayed from. The command being passed is press, with a parameter alt+f, which as I probably don't need to explain, presses alt+f. There are a lot of other commands, and more than one command could be executed per button press if you really wanted, but the typical deal is "one key to one action", so ClickBoxer sticks to that in its sample form. It is up to the user to remain within the rules.

I don't know the answer to legitimately communicating with WoW add-ons. The only communication with add-ons that I know of happening was through ISXWoW, and that falls outside of what we want to be discussing. However, I would LIKE to be able to legitimately communicate with WoW add-ons, in order to improve functionality of, say, the Ventrilo interface for example: if it's possible to do without raising flags, I would like to make it a one-click no-typing deal in order to join a Ventrilo server for a pre-made battleground, by having an addon transmit the server details to my application. I will admit I don't know enough about the capabilities of WoW addons in particular to answer this question properly.

[Suvega]

Inner Space runs inside the client's memory space (the name Inner Space is meant to hint at this).

You cannot live inside the WoW process space, it is both AGAINST The ToS, and has been defended for a million dollar lawsuit for the case of WoW Glider.

INNERSPACE IS NOT LEGAL. YOUR PLATFORM IS NOT LEGAL. WOWGLIDER USED THIS PLATFORM AS WELL.



ToS, Section 14, Paragraph A:
WHEN RUNNING, THE PROGRAM MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY "ADDON" OR "MOD," THAT IN BLIZZARD'S SOLE DETERMINATION: (i) ENABLES OR FACILITATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE; (ii) ALLOWS USERS TO MODIFY OR HACK THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND/OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY BLIZZARD; OR (iii) INTERCEPTS, "MINES," OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS INFORMATION FROM OR THROUGH THE PROGRAM. IN THE EVENT THAT THE PROGRAM DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER SECTION 6 OF THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

Important parts are highlighted.

Living in the memory space, and reading and having access to WoW's memory, is directly against the ToS.
For fucks sake, some mod, LOCK THIS FUCKING THREAD. Thx.

[Xzin]

What I would love would be to be able to have a sort of auxiliary HUD on a mini 8" or 10" monitor that could for example, track things like Vent servers, who is online, your average damage this session, total kills this session, honor gained this session, your latest arena results, etc. Pop up messages when things you need happen. A sort of sidekick feature that would automatically set itself up and automatically display at a glance data. Stuff that is important enough to know but not critical enough to go on the main UI. It would also be great if this information was aggregated across WoW's. This may or may not require an outside interface to allow the WoW sessions to talk together. I know the Bliz API is very limited about writing data although in theory, one could simply have an outside application aggregate/poll the data across a network and compile it in real time into a HUD display.

It would also be very neat if you could set up a small touchscreen display that would let you designate targets in milliseconds by simply clicking on their names in your touchscreen. So, mouse over their names and then click 1,2,3,4 and presto, you have loaded up 4 separate targets for your "alts" and then you have one for your main and bam - click once and 5x hexes or polys or what not go off. I don't think you would need IS for that but still. There are tons of VERY helpful ideas out there that could really help bring incremental increases in PvP/arena viability and I would love to finally see some people tackle them.

As a disclaimer: I don't know how much data one can pull out of WoW through the API. I think Bliz strongly limits the flow of data from applications to external files. It may not be possible to do the above without programs like IS or some kind of memory scanning program, which probably falls beyond what is legal under the TOS. I could see applications like the above being facilitated by IS and I think most people would argue that a aggregated data HUD would be useful and not the same as botting but still - I reiterate that this is a very fine line and until (if we ever) get clarification from Bliz, it seems like a good idea to ensure the community continues to maintain a reputation of being above board and not using programs or even offering up the belief that we are using special botting programs to give us an advantage in game. Boxing is legal because it gives players the same ability (less in my opinion) as 5 equally geared players. We as a community need to take great pains to keep it that way.

[Xzin]

For fucks sake, some mod, LOCK THIS FUCKING THREAD. Thx.

While this forum is and continues to be against botting of all types, I am not willing to slippery slope lock this thread as a knee jerk reaction just yet. I want to learn more about what Lax is proposing here and even though he has an association with programs that are against this forum and Blizzards own practices, I am also very against censoring Lax simply due to his reputation. I admit it is a fine line and I am not sure that I 100% agree with Lax that IS is 100% legit but I want to hear what he has to say and what he is proposing instead of simply deciding to lock this thread. Obviously if this thread turns to talk of botting or actions that are clearly against Blizzards TOS then it will get locked but Lax has made his position clear that that is not what he is here to promote. I for one am interested in hearing more about exactly what he has to say but I am incredibly weary about associating IS with multiboxing. We have a hard enough time as it is and we take great pains to keep the software applications that some of us use 110% as clean and as non automating as possible.

[Lax]

Inner Space runs inside the client's memory space (the name Inner Space is meant to hint at this).

You cannot live inside the WoW process space, it is both AGAINST The ToS, and has been defended for a million dollar lawsuit for the case of WoW Glider.

INNERSPACE IS NOT LEGAL. YOUR PLATFORM IS NOT LEGAL. WOWGLIDER USED THIS PLATFORM AS WELL.



ToS, Section 14, Paragraph A:
WHEN RUNNING, THE PROGRAM MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY "ADDON" OR "MOD," THAT IN BLIZZARD'S SOLE DETERMINATION: (i) ENABLES OR FACILITATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE; (ii) ALLOWS USERS TO MODIFY OR HACK THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND/OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY BLIZZARD; OR (iii) INTERCEPTS, "MINES," OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS INFORMATION FROM OR THROUGH THE PROGRAM. IN THE EVENT THAT THE PROGRAM DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER SECTION 6 OF THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

Important parts are highlighted.

Living in the memory space, and reading and having access to WoW's memory, is directly against the ToS.
For fucks sake, some mod, LOCK THIS FUCKING THREAD. Thx.

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. It is not "AGAINST The ToS" to "live inside the WoW process space". Lots of software does this, including Logitech mouse software, anti-virus and anti-spyware software, Dell QuickSet, yadda yadda. The list goes on and on. Do you even know what the Glider lawsuit is about?

Secondly, Inner Space is legal. There are no legal complaints pending or planned against Inner Space. I will accept the advice of my attorney before some random idiot posting on the internet, and I would suggest that people in general not get their legal advice from people like this guy.

Third, the portion you highlighted has nothing to do with the claims you are making about Inner Space. Inner Space does not intercept, mine, or otherwise collect information from World of Warcraft. The section you are highlighting has to do with packet sniffing (which Inner Space does not do), or reading WoW memory for purposes of collecting data about the game (which Inner Space does not do). For example, they do not want you running a program that collects information on all of the nearby mobs for you to determine if there is a rare mob for you to go kill (which people did in EverQuest all the time). If the claim you were making about Inner Space being illegal for residing in-process were true, then WinEQ, WinEQ 2, and a multitude of other software including software promoted on dual-boxing.com would be illegal.

p.s. did you skip reading where I explained that I had a conversation in my deposition with Blizzard's legal counsel about this?

[Suvega]

Third, the portion you highlighted has nothing to do with the claims you are making about Inner Space. Inner Space does not intercept, mine, or otherwise collect information from World of Warcraft. The section you are highlighting has to do with packet sniffing (which Inner Space does not do), or reading WoW memory for purposes of collecting data about the game (which Inner Space does not do). For example, they do not want you running a program that collects information on all of the nearby mobs for you to determine if there is a rare mob for you to go kill (which people did in EverQuest all the time). If the claim you were making about Inner Space being illegal for residing in-process were true, then WinEQ, WinEQ 2, and a multitude of other software including software promoted on dual-boxing.com would be illegal.

A) WoWGlider case was about the copying and/or mining of WoW's memoryspace. Case could set quite a precedent in the Digital Rights area, that copying memory is an abuse of copyright, but whatever, thats a different topic.

You can defend your product as much as you want, however it was DESIGNED for bottling software (lol). Your "platform" was designed to live in the process space as to avoid detection. (I'm sure I could find many a posts for this, but you're not worth my time).

B) Question for you then buddy, Why live in the WoW memory space if not for allowing access to the memory of WoW? Overlays and other applications are perfectly able to run in other processes (see: fraps).

C) Just because they aren't SUEING you, doesn't mean you wont' get banned for using your shady ass software.
INDEPENDENT of the ability to sniff memory... Blizz can ban you for whatever they want, even without a reason. Your software was KNOWN to be associated with WoWGlider. I'm pretty sure thats a bit to close for comfort, no?


Food for thought

[Suvega]

Ok here, as followup:
If you think your software is legal, Why don't you do what keyclone (and other software programs that we allow on these boards) has done:

Ask on the customer service forum if creating a platform for 3rd party programs that lives within the WoW process space is Legal.

Do eet, until then, keep your shady ass wares away from this forum.

[Xzin]

For clarification: Lax is *not* the guy behind Glider. I am aware that Lax's software is used by others to avoid detection of Warden (and other naughty things) but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater either. I understand the vilification of Lax here (even I have my reservations) but I have read what he has to say about the nuances of some of the things he does and I believe him to be a very intelligent individual that could potentially bring helpful advances in multiboxing software to the table. Will that happen? I don't know. What form will it take and will it be one that is ultimately good for the community? No idea. But I also see no point in burning him at the stake when he could go write his own software on his own anyway and not involve the community.

[Lax]

A) WoWGlider case was about the copying and/or mining of WoW's memoryspace. A quite questionable call by the judge to call it an abuse of copyright, but whatever, thats a different topic.

You can defend your product as much as you want, however it was DESIGNED for botting software (lol). Your "platform" was designed to live in the process space as to avoid detection. (I'm sure I could find many a posts for this, but you're not worth my time).

B) Question for you then buddy, Why live in the WoW memory space if not for allowing access to the memory of WoW? Overlays and other applications are perfectly able to run in other processes (see: fraps).

C) Just because they aren't SUEING you, doesn't mean you wont' get banned for using your shady ass software.


Food for thought

1. Glider is a Bot. Bots are a violation of the ToS. The argument is that because it is a bot, it is a violation of copyright for it to modify the World of Warcraft process, which it was doing in part to implement a way to avoid detection from Warden.

Inner Space was not "DESIGNED for botting software", it was originally designed to replace WinEQ 2. Being used for botting is something that came about once people decided the features of the software would be useful for them to do that. World of Warcraft didn't HAVE detection when Inner Space was designed, so it's ludicrous for you to say that it was designed to be in-process to avoid detection. Furthermore, being in process is HARDER to avoid detection than out of process. The vast majority of Warden's functionality is for detecting in-process hacks. Warden can see Inner Space if they want it to.

2. It has nothing to do with allowing access to the memory of WoW, and you do not need to reside in WoW memory space to access the memory of WoW. ReadProcessMemory is used by Glider and other software in order to read the memory. WriteProcessMemory, likewise, is used to write it. As I said, being in-process has nothing to do with getting banned or not.

3. They can ban you for whatever they want, but they typically restrict banning to violations of the Terms of Service. They don't want to randomly ban people for things they didn't warn against, because that would be bad business and their banned customer would have a legitimate complaint against their service.

You can keep your opinion and go on thinking it's bannable, but stop spreading FUD.

[Suvega]

Sorry, not trying to vilanify Lax, I just don't want people hawking very shady things on this forum.

We get enough "ZOMG BOTS" as it is, before we start using software which was the, ehem, "platform" for which several bots built themselves on...