Clickboxer - new key broadcasting software

[stealthy45]

Jrichard:

and over and over we've heard how lavish software has nothing to do with isxwarden, yet that's who register the domain.
The isxwow site lists their irc channel to be irc.lavishsoft.com

wow, yeah i see what you mean, lavishsoft has nothing to do with botting.

Uhm.... Yeah, Lax owns a site that hosts all sorts of "mods" (see: the IRC and Vent extensions I frequently ues) for innerspace.
ISXWarden is an extension. It is hosted on a site of possible IS extensions. Where is the problem here?

I'm sure through google you can find the site that hosts ISXWoW, which is what makes "InnerSpace WoW botting" possible. I'm sure you're capable of realizing that Lax *doesn't* own that domain.
In case you're too lazy:
http://whois.domaintools.com/isxwow.net:

Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States

Domain Name: ISXWOW.NET
Created on: 29-Nov-06
Expires on: 30-Nov-08
Last Updated on: 05-Nov-07

Administrative Contact:
Private, Registration
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598

Technical Contact:
Private, Registration
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598

Domain servers in listed order:
NS15.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS16.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

If I recall right, Crowley, one of the ISXWoW devs, is the site admin and is in no way related to Lax.
ISXWoW lists their channel for support to be one of the channels on the LavishNet IRC serve. So?

[jrichard]

Neither lazy nor stupid, show me the actual domain info unhidden by a host.

funny, there's a poster giving programming advice on the isxwow forums named stealthy

and isxwow was hosted by ismods.com until crowley moved to the new domain

and in the wikki for isxwow.net we find none other than eqjoe and wilbur listed as contributors.

nice happy family you all have coming over here.

[Vyndree]

Quoted Multiboxers, as a community, are often misassociated with botters. Multiboxers, in general, would prefer that this no longer happens.

... you see where I'm going here?

Yes, and the solution is simple: Don't automate, thanks.

We don't. People who use LavishSoft (along with "3rd party" scripts and along with things like ISXWarden) do. We would rather not be associated with these sorts of people. Granted, Lavishsoft is a "platform", but it's a "platform" well known by the general populace for botters. Therefore, by reputation, we'd be associated with them.

Your solution is noted. We don't automate. Thanks for the astute observation.

POINT A: Innerspace has the capability of being a platform for bots.

Also see: Any programming language capable of manipulating memory, such as C/C++/C# (the languages most multibox programs were most likely written in).


Quoted POINT C: Fussing with WoW as it resides in memory is gray area

Not really. Reading WoW's memory is a grey area, ask on the Customer Service forums before you do something risky.

Can scripts written for the LavishSoft platform read WoW's memory? Yes.
Therefore, scripts written for the LavishSoft platform are gray area.

Does ClickBoxer? From what I understand from it's "click"-feature -- Yes.
Therefore, since ClickBoxer reads memory -- it is gray area.

she'll have to be able to jump off the hate train at its next stop before she notices.

I can read, for your information. You're an awfully friendly individual for having first shown up here -- you seem to know my entire inner workings from such a simple thread. I'm touched.

Back to Vyndree:

i.e. Is the only REAL differentiation between "you" and "lavish software" useful in order to protect the right hand from what the left hand is doing?

Even if it isn't, will your strong opinion of bias change?

Are you saying the logic behind my bias is flawed? Because a bias, based on facts, wouldn't be considered a bias -- would it?

Can you refute the facts that are the direct cause of my opinion? Or do you think that insulting every member who disagrees with your opinion will be logic enough?

c) Claiming that arguments are coming off as "sad and for once its not sam", and that they are "irrational" but have no counterpoints to the arguements is quite ironic imo

Again, your opinion is worthless, but thanks for being ironic!

I wouldn't comment about people's opinions being worthless. I haven't seen much worthiness in your posts as of yet.

As a platform, does IS allow access to WoW memory space, or read or write to any WoW memory space? I'm not asking if Windows can do it, or if the CPU can do it, I'm asking if IS does it or exposes calls/hooks/fucntions to allow scripts to do it.

WoW doesn't need to allow acces to WoW memory space. Windows already does. There is an extension, ISXGenHack, that has functionality similar to TSearch from what I understand and also allows easy changing of memory. However, this isn't part of the innerspace platform.
I believe InnerSpace does have some sort of capability for modifying memory, but i'm not sure what it is. I simply don't know. It's pretty irrelevant regardless.

You're carrying an awful lot of talk in here for something you "simply do not know".

Windows can change memory -- but an operating system is REQUIRED to play the game. The LavishSoft platform is not required, and while the capability of wrongdoing is not bannable (look at G15's and AHK), they are also not known to have caused mistaken bans in the past either. I don't like AHK, and I think I've made that clear -- and I don't like LavishSoft's platform either. Why? They knowingly allow the use of bots on their systems. They knowingly allow (and in the case of ISXWarden, distribute) ToU/Eula-breaking products that they know, if caught, will get their customers banned. They do not have the good of the customer in mind.

Windows? C++? They are but pawns in the hands of the user.

You're not asking people to use "just a platform". You're asking them to use a developer-written script FOR the LavishSoft platform, that -- like any other LavishSoft script (like ISXWarden, ISXWoW) -- has the capability of doing actions that are not in-line with the WoW ToU/Eula. The developer has admitted that ClickBoxer utilizes some of the memory-reading features of the LavishSoft platform to provide additional featuresets. You yourself have admitted that you don't know how deep these memory-related features go, and memory-reading features are "gray area".




For one so quick to patronize, mock, and insult a community you are so new to -- you have done a great job of leading by example. At the very least, all of my arguments are backed up with facts, not mockery and heavy-handed namecalling.

While I would love to close this thread -- Ellay has been benevolent enough to leave it open for others to have a COURTEOUS discussion. If you insist on slinging insults on your first day in the community against MULTIPLE members and mods, action will be taken. If you're honestly invested in HELPING Lax promote his product, I'd cut with the attitude and personal attacks and start with some facts that actually bring value to the conversation. Consider this your "welcome to the dual-boxing forums" first warning.

[stealthy45]

Are you saying the logic behind my bias is flawed? Because a bias, based on facts, wouldn't be considered a bias -- would it?

Can you refute the facts that are the direct cause of my opinion? Or do you think that insulting every member who disagrees with your opinion will be logic enough?

No, I cannot refute the facts. As a coder, I have a very different view of things than you do - you make mountains of molehills. The logic used to arrive at the bias is flawed.

Your solution is noted. We don't automate. Thanks for the astute observation.

Great! You have nothing to worry about. Shocker, that.

Can scripts written for the LavishSoft platform read WoW's memory? Yes.
Therefore, scripts written for the LavishSoft platform are gray area.

Does ClickBoxer? From what I understand from it's "click"-feature -- Yes.
Therefore, since ClickBoxer reads memory -- it is gray area.

So "can" any other multibox application if it so wishes.

I can read, for your information. You're an awfully friendly individual for having first shown up here -- you seem to know my entire inner workings from such a simple thread. I'm touched.

Sarcasm noted; idiocy annoys me.

I wouldn't comment about people's opinions being worthless. I haven't seen much worthiness in your posts as of yet.

Congrats.

AFK, warcraft 3 game.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Armchair lawyers FTL.

[Vyndree]

The logic used to arrive at the bias is flawed.

No, I cannot refute the facts.

So the data is correct, the logic is flawed, and you show no proof of the latter?

idiocy annoys me.

I'm sorry. It must be hard to live with.

So "can" any other multibox application if it so wishes.

Except that they don't wish to.

ClickBoxer does wish to. Why? To figure out where to click buttons on a UI.

That is the KEY difference. Keyclone doesn't care to read WoW's memory -- why? Because it's just acting like an input device. One-way. Human keypress to client. Most of the other multibox solutions as well -- hardware setups, multibox, synergy, octopus, clonekeys....


All software products should be just emulators of hardware solutions. Hardware doesn't read WoW's memory and make reactions based on what it finds (i.e. clicking in the center of a UI button). A human person behind the keys should always be the one making the active decisions -- and while reading memory for the purpose of clicking on a button SEEMS harmless -- it's not up to us to decide what is right and what is wrong. It's up to Blizzard. And, as for how it stands now, it's leaning on the side of "wrong".

Congrats.

For what? Pointing out the obvious?

[Souca]

Quoted
As a platform, does IS allow access to WoW memory space, or read or write to any WoW memory space? I'm not asking if Windows can do it, or if the CPU can do it, I'm asking if IS does it or exposes calls/hooks/fucntions to allow scripts to do it.

WoW doesn't need to allow acces to WoW memory space. Windows already does. There is an extension, ISXGenHack, that has functionality similar to TSearch from what I understand and also allows easy changing of memory. However, this isn't part of the innerspace platform.
I believe InnerSpace does have some sort of capability for modifying memory, but i'm not sure what it is. I simply don't know. It's pretty irrelevant regardless.

Please be so kind as to attribute me in your quotes so I know that you are attacking me personally.

- Souca -

[keyclone]

as i cannot comment directly on the OP (that wouldn't be right), i can address the response of the mods and members of the community

we all (really) love multi-boxing and have put many hours (days/weeks) of time into supporting the community, its members, and have done what we can to insure companies like Blizzard and Sony are happy with our hobby by pointing out the distinct differences between multi-boxing and botting. to this end, i believe we have been very successful in nurturing the ember that was multi-boxing into a valid play style accepted by these major corporations. it has not been easy as we have suffered many attacks, some personal and some a bit more. through it all, the community has held together, behaved maturally / admirably (well... except for skuggo... j/k ). this is why i am proud to call myself a member.

after all that, to have someone that is associated with one of the biggest legal thorns in Blizzard's side is obviously counter intuitive to our goals.

all reactions are going to be understandably defensive.

[spoiler]since theses forums do not discuss any websites or software that is against the EULA/TOS or bannable, the path ahead should be clear.
[/spoiler]
just my 2cp worth.

Rob

[Ellay]

I should of left it locked when I did, this topic got out of control.