[Unnamed botting program] PWNT

[Aethon]

When I read about Blizzard's complaints that botters "spend far more time in-game than an ordinary player would and consume resources the entire time" I was pretty angered. Are we talking coal or barrels of oil here? No, we're talking about electronic gold. Now I won't deny that MMO currency is beginning to gain a reasonable amount of real-world value, but real-world litigation is a very clear statement that Blizzard considers their gold to be a real-world commodity - thus legitimizing gold sellers.

The resources consumed are not gold or virtual mobs, but real world electricity, server capacity and bandwidth. Blizzard charges based on the fact that each account is going to consume a certain percentage of their bottom line in expenses, botting drives that up by being online 24/7. It also causes an increase in customer support incidences as they are reported, investigated, etc. Other resources consumed are the programmers working on Warden, anti-cheating code, etc.

Ok, so where do multiboxers fit into your theory? People still report us constantly, which requires time and effort to investigate whether we're multiboxing or using some other program. Same with Warden, etc. Additionally, there are people that MB 10 characters. Most botters I've known (and this is previously being one myself and frequenting the glider forums) only bot at most 1-2 accounts. Even if they stayed on 24/7 (which they don't, believe me, it's a fast way to a ban) they would still take up less total bandwidth then a multiboxer. Also, while many botters will run BG's, no one bots arenas. Arenas take up a bit of resources themselves.

And the fact that they base it on estimated usage is crap. Has my subscription price gone up when they reached 5 million players? 10 million? Will my subscription price go down when WoW declines to 1 million in the future? I don't think so.

Botters represent as small of a community as multiboxers (probably why some people ask if we're bots) the impact to the WoW economy is negligable, as noted after every single banwave. Primal prices didn't go up (as one would expect after a reduced supply) they stayed the same or reduced in some cases.

Try reading the arguements and testimonies for Blizzard, you'll laugh yourself into next Tuesday.

[Steph]

To compare botting and multi-boxing in their impact, you need to look at the online time vs subscription.

Take a 5boxer. Assume for simplicity that he plays all the time that he can, while not sleeping or working. Assume 7h sleep, 10h work including lunch and commuting. That leaves 24-17=7h playtime per day. Times 5, times 4.33 is 151h per month on weekdays. Add 20h playtime for weekends, allowing for shopping and other things you don't get around doing in the house. 20x4.33=86.6h. The total would be 237.6h. Scary, eh? However, when looking at the total amount of hours in the month, this is put into perspective: 24h per day, 7 days a week, 4.33 weeks per month equals 727.44h per month. That leaves our five boxer online 32% of the time.
To summarize: 5boxer. 32% online. Paying 5 accounts.

Take a botter. Assume for simplicity that the botter will run his character 24/7 when he does not need the account to play himself.
To summarize: 1botter. 100% online. Paying 1 account.

Certainly you can see how automation in this example consumes more bandwidth and creates more server load per subscription?
I quite agree that the 5boxer consumes 160% of the resources that the botter uses, but that is across five separately paid accounts and would be the same if five people would be paying and playing just like regular single-boxer players.

Price for upkeep of the game scales with amount of people playing. More servers, more bandwidth, more customer support.

I think we have all seen bots run 24/7 until the next ban wave comes. I wouldn't care if it would be the case, but I think that even clear botting is not insta-banned. Instead Blizzard puts these accounts on the list for the next 500.000 cheaters to be thrown out of the game. But that can be months later. Now, if I should be wrong about this assumption and bots running 12/7 to simulate a school kid's usage are not getting banned while the 24/7s are, that just validates the point I made above about the online time being the key concern.

[Schwarz]

Ok so what if blizzard changed there thinking about multiboxing. They change their EULA saying that keyclone/autohotkey/etc can not be used in game. They then go on to sue keyclone and he has to pay $10 million. Would you feel the same way?

[Rin]

Ok so what if blizzard changed there thinking about multiboxing. They change their EULA saying that keyclone/autohotkey/etc can not be used in game. They then go on to sue keyclone and he has to pay $10 million. Would you feel the same way?

If the terms of the contract had changed, we would be forced to agree to a new EULA. Pursuant to the new sections in the Blizzard EULA (specifically, if a new section were added explicitly stating that programs like AutoHotKey and Keyclone could not be used), Blizzard would have the right to collect on damages AFTER the change in contract. The most likely outcome would be that Blizzard would send a cease and decist letter to the makers of the products that violate the EULA. If the product manufacturers decided to ignore the letter, then Blizzard would have a right to collect on damages (again, citing breach of the said EULA).

[Tehtsuo]

Ok so what if blizzard changed there thinking about multiboxing. They change their EULA saying that keyclone/autohotkey/etc can not be used in game. They then go on to sue keyclone and he has to pay $10 million. Would you feel the same way?

If the terms of the contract had changed, we would be forced to agree to a new EULA. Pursuant to the new sections in the Blizzard EULA (specifically, if a new section were added explicitly stating that programs like AutoHotKey and Keyclone could not be used), Blizzard would have the right to collect on damages AFTER the change in contract. The most likely outcome would be that Blizzard would send a cease and decist letter to the makers of the products that violate the EULA. If the product manufacturers decided to ignore the letter, then Blizzard would have a right to collect on damages (again, citing breach of the said EULA).

You're assuming Blizzard would not litigate based on the current incarnation of the EULA, which it could do based on this precedent. It would be a slightly more shaky case, but certainly workable, and very likely enough to cause Keyclone considerable hardship regardless of the outcome.

For that matter, if Blizzard did change their EULA, would you notice? It's going to pop up with the next patch like it always does - is anyone here planning to read it through from top to bottom? It would seem that it might be a good idea now, if they change policy Keyclone could find himself looking down the gun barrel because his users didn't read the fine print.

[Rin]

@Tehtsuo -

Yes, I would notice if the EULA had changed. Pursuant to my Juris Doctorates degree, and having a background in Computer Engineering and Mathematics, I've read (skimmed to the important parts; they're usually always in the same spot) it a couple of times.

In the past, I've also been involved in writing documents similar to Blizzard's stated EULA for a couple of different independent software vendors. From a business perspective, I would argue that Blizzard is simply trying to pursue this lawsuit to eliminate a corproation which thrives off of undermining their game. The integrity of Blizzard's World of Warcraft is an intangible thing that Blizzard truly cares about (hence why Blizzard bans and suspends people for simply cussing in their public channels). I would argue that a program like Glider ends up costing Blizzard money in the long run, as Blizzard employs people to keep track of accounts in question. Blizzard has a department for handling account closures as well as suspensions. As you are well aware, people don't work for free, and this lawsuit marks the beginning of a new era for gaming corporations. This lawsuit gives Blizzard the right to collect on damages to their game (again, all Blizzard has to do is show salaries being paid to N-employees, along with their specific job function, as a result of the Glider program). Programs like Keyclone, on the other hand, don't reap their profits solely off of Blizzard's game; as Keyclone can be used for a myriad of other purposes. While you may make the argument that Glider can be used for other purposes, its primary function is for the World of Warcraft game.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Guys, keep in mind, keyclone operates via an internet verification system on startup, so all he'd have to do to completely disable all but hacked copies of keyclone is turn off the key server. No way Blizz could sue him for the same sort of damages they did that other guy, especially since that other hack program was always illegal, whereas keyclone is specifically not against the ToS according to Blizzard today.

[zanthor]

Ok so what if blizzard changed there thinking about multiboxing. They change their EULA saying that keyclone/autohotkey/etc can not be used in game. They then go on to sue keyclone and he has to pay $10 million. Would you feel the same way?

If blizzard gave Rob a cease and dissist notice and he ignored it...
If blizzard made regular changes to detect and stop keyclone and rob went out of his way to circumvent these and mask the use...
etc...
Yes. I'd feel the exact same way.

On the other hand, if Blizzard told Rob to stop, I'd be pretty confident that he would make KeyClone not work with WoW.

[Aethon]

Guys, keep in mind, keyclone operates via an internet verification system on startup, so all he'd have to do to completely disable all but hacked copies of keyclone is turn off the key server. No way Blizz could sue him for the same sort of damages they did that other guy, especially since that other hack program was always illegal, whereas keyclone is specifically not against the ToS according to Blizzard today.

It hasn't always been agianst the EULA, they added that many months after release when they institued Warden. But that's beside the point I wanted to make: Blizzard has said Keyclone, etc is okay to use, it's not specifically in their EULA and all it requires is a reversal of opinion to get it to stop. And, of course, it shouldn't be an issue unless, as someone else said, he continued to develop the program and ways to circumvent Blizzard/detection.

Yes, it's good for now, but keep in mind that anything is subject to change. Just because one thing is ok now doesn't mean it'll always be that way. I wouldn't worry about anybody getting sued if they disallowed Keyclone, but there would still be a lot of upset multiboxers.

[puppychow]

Guys, keep in mind, keyclone operates via an internet verification system on startup, so all he'd have to do to completely disable all but hacked copies of keyclone is turn off the key server. No way Blizz could sue him for the same sort of damages they did that other guy, especially since that other hack program was always illegal, whereas keyclone is specifically not against the ToS according to Blizzard today.

The "other program" also uses a verification system on startup, pretty much all bot software does since by its very nature it attracts hackers and pirates, and so they have to develop anti-pirating measures themselves (kind of ironic, the cheaters having to worry about getting cheated!)

Two salient points: 1) EULAs are tricky, there was no EULA when you purchased the Blizzard box at the store, only after you installed the software and ran it. Its been argued successfully before in court (Softman vs Adobe) that the whole purchase software vs license thing is not fully valid when the EULA is not on the actual physical box.

2) People always forget that your character, account, etc are all the property of Blizzard. At any moment in time they could decide they no longer want you as a customer, and suspend/ban your account. Countless people have been banned for things like "economy manipulation" (playing the auction house), playing too much, having too much gold, and of course more valid reasons like botting, letting asian companies level them, sharing accounts, racial slurs, etc.

Tomorrow Blizzard could decide that keyclone is against the EULA and ban all of us for using it/Octopus/etc, and we would have little recourse. Hopefully it won't ever happen, but people need to remember that Blizzard is always 100% control who can play and how, and all our conjectures and opinions on what is allowed and what isn't, doesn't amount to much.