25-man boss assessment for a 25-boxer

[Schwarz]

People on Magtheridon server for the love of god can you take 5 five boxers and zone into Gruuls lair. Pew Pew and see what can be done. Who knows maybe you can kill High king before the adds get to you and then the add's disapear. I know there are 3 or 4 five boxers on the horde side of azagalor but they are either leveling/new dinged 70's. It seems a shame that "the multibox server" hasn't even attempted this once.

[Tonuss]

How does that list change if everyone is level 75?

It doesn't change very much, because levels are not really the problem with most of those fights. Most raid bosses require you to split your attention, often more than two ways and in patterns that aren't entirely predictable. Levels and gear can help you last longer, sometimes long enough to outlast a boss that you wouldn't have otherwise (example, Nixi beating Shade of Aran/Illhoof by absorbing damage that a normal group would work to avoid). But for the most part the need to divide your attention many different ways works against a single person who is controlling the entire raid.

[Rin]

Wait..wat? You disagree with me, but....you also agree with me? I'm confused.

Im assuming you dont agree with me on the following statement: "1 person will never be able to do much beyond tank & spank, or full on nuke (not even with a brain-to-computer interface), as long as you dont allow some kind of automation or AI."

Sure, you can mash a tanking macro on the warrior, and mash a healing macro on 5-6 healers, and a dps macro on your ranged group. You can also move groups around and crowd control targets. Can you do Netherspite? I'd like to hear the counteragrument...what CAN you do?

Lets say you own 25 computers. How many keyboards beyond 1 do you think it would be practical to use?

You're right, I apologize. I read your post a little bit closer, and now I see what you mean. For whatever reason, I was NOT thinking about this from 1 25-person's point of view. If 1 person tried to run 25 characters; you're absolutely right - chaos would ensue. As someone else has already stated, I'm really simply appalled at the fact that there haven't been any TEAMS of boxers who would group up to do these encounters. Almost all of the encounters on the list (minus Archinudon), would almost be trivialized by having multiple people each running a few characters. That's what we hope to accomplish over on the Burning Legion (US) server anyways. It seems like there's been a lot more activity on the boxing scene lately, and I'd love to see us working together to make progression both in the BC and in WOTLK - again, I'm POSITIVE that we could do most/all of these encounters, and I'm sure that we could do it faster than having 25 individuals trying to get through something. Hell, our raid setup times would be cut in half (at a minimum), not to mention that once we figure out where everyone needs to be/what everyone needs to do, it seems as if it would be easier telling one person ok, do this - rather than 25 each doing their own thing.

Think about the wipes that you've had in your guild(s) on various encounters. From personal experiences, I've noticed that most of the time we wipe because of several inattentive players, or we're just completely unprepared for the encounter. Also, consider the messages and chat-sever talk that follows, especially after a wipe. Ugh. I'd rather do encounters with a group of boxers than 25 pseudo-random guildies any day, but maybe that's just me.

[Anjuna]

Let me summarize:

ALL 25 MAN BOSSES: Impossible

Since I'm too lazy to go into specifics. Pick one you think you have hte best chance to kill, and I'll tell you why you can't.

I agree with you.

With all of the knockback / spread out + move fights in 25 man content, I seriously doubt you are going to kill anything in a 25 man unless you have help. I could see, at the max, 6 raid slots being taken up by boxers. Either one 5 boxing team, or a couple of 2-3 boxing teams. The rest of your raid would have to be a few tiers over the content you are working on for sure.

Still, if one of you can make me eat my words, I will praise you like the God you are.

[TheBigBB]

I agree that you need to reduce these fights to tank and spank as much as possible, which is what I tried to see if I could reduce the bosses into. I didn't know a pally could tank all the Fathom Lord adds by himself, so certainly that might make the fight sort of possible. Of course this must require a T6 paladin tank with nice heals.

To the people who say nothing in MH or BT could be killed, I absolutely think this is wrong. Many of these bosses are severely undertuned. Mother is a pure tank and spank once you have the resist gear, with only one tough mechanic being the three people who get the fatal attraction, and if you bound movement keys to random directions you might be able to spread them out and then regroup up repeatedly to get out of it. Would take some luck as I said. Najentus is also a pure tank and spank if you can loot the spines. Akama is super-super-super easy so even with the problems faced on him it could probably be macroed and keybound out to be possible.

By the way, is trash really a big problem? If you set up mage sheep macros before each pull and had a lot of constant mindless AOE heal COH/Chain heals going I don't know if you'd have any trouble on trash. Trash is usually just to make sure people are awake. If your healers and CC aren't watching TV you usually down it.

[Los]

Neh ppl are far to negative over here, you could prolly fill a raid with fiveboxers and get a whole lot of content down. Too bad i dont have that at my dispossal. Actually you should see the benefits, for example tanks with private healers (no more whining on ts/vt), biggest problem though, loot deviding?

[Rin]

Neh ppl are far to negative over here, you could prolly fill a raid with fiveboxers and get a whole lot of content down. Too bad i dont have that at my dispossal. Actually you should see the benefits, for example tanks with private healers (no more whining on ts/vt), biggest problem though, loot deviding?

Haha. My point exactly. I think the initial message of this post was "AS ONE (1, uno, single) 25-boxer, you wouldn't be able to do these bosses."

Cheers.

[zanthor]

If you you a top shelf geared tank he will probably be able to sustain this damage indefinitely with enough incoming healing.

Here's the problem with Hydross... you can't block his damage, period.

Even with max frost resist and amazing gear in the other slots you won't last long at 400% dmg... my tank was fully T5 geared with capped frost resistance and even resisting 75% of his damage the 400% hits are still too brutal. All it takes is ONE hit to go through unresisted and you are dead.

[TheBigBB]

I actually thought it wouldn't be a problem to do hydross as normal. Well, it'd be tough but I think the fight never really stops being a tank and spank with occasional add spawns. Just have to have some different movement binds and skill binds for each tank so you can move them and then gain aggro with them separately.

[puppychow]

here is the biggest problem:

There are only 2 people in the world, apart from chinese farmers, who are even attempting 25 man multiboxing. Prepared and Sam. Prepared is now what, just hitting around level 60? Sam is like at level 10 and probably will take 6 months to hit even 60.

To even have a ridiculously small chance at ANY 25 man boss, the characters have to be DECKED OUT THE WAZOO. Full s4, or T5+ and badge gear. None of that can be achieved in a few weeks, it would take over a year to gear up 25 people to this level.

So the whole thing is just theorycrafting, sure a 5 man team right now could go and kill Lucifron in Molten Core but nobody would care much (I 3 manned some MC trash the other day while waiting for BRD party, coulda kept going easy). Likewise, six months from now a single multiboxer could go and kill Mag or Lurker at level 80, but it really wouldn't mean much. BTw all these encounters do have adds which eventually can get out of control, its doable but would not be easy and a single mistake would lead to quick wipes.

A better question is, what will MBers be able to do in WOTLK -->> EARLY ON <<--. Not after two years when bosses drop iLevel 200 gear and everyone is in iLevel300 PVP/badge gear, but early on when everyone is equal.

I've only played a few mins in a Naxx pug, it was pretty hard with 10 different people, lot of AoE and precise movement required. Perhaps 2 multiboxing teams will be able to do 10 mans, maybe not all the bosses, but some. A single 10 man mb person like Nixxi may be able to do some. Prepared is the only one who is going to be able to say whether a single person can do a 25 man boss, but I don't know if he plans to level to 80, how long that would take, and whether he is even remotely interested in PVE.