No more gear from BGS :(

[Hachoo]

Yeah this whole idea is pretty stupid...give the people that already have an advantage more of one..riiiiiight...

The point above is very good - what happens when all the 1600+ rated teams are in epics, and someone that hasn't done arena before tries to get involved...how on earth is he ever going to get a rating to get epic gear if he can't get a rating because he can't beat any teams that already have their epic gear.

Arena would be a lot better IMO if it did a gear point check on everyone on the team as you queued, and only played you against someone with "relatively" similar points worth of gear.

[Bradster]

there used to be only pvp epics when you were the top rated teams, and if you didn't play arena for a week you lost your rating and lost your gear.

Sounds like they are trying to roll back the game.

I just want to know how a non-rated team is supposed to ever get a 1650 rating when all of the 1650 rated teams are in epics and the non-rated teams are in blues or greens.
I have a solo warlock with a 1400 rating and lots of pvp epics ( nothing brutal but the gloves ).

I like to think of it as the US economy when it comes to Taxes.

The poor get poorer
Middle Class: That was a nice game you played, had you had the same gear it was clear you would of won. Sorry you don’t have a high enough rating because of it. No gear for you.
Upper class: Enjoy god mode XD
It’s a good thing to base the PVP system off of; there are no flaws with the us Economy :P

[Schwarz]

I for one like these changes. I think it is utter bs that people were getting t4/t5 and even t6 equivalent gear by doing nothing but putting in 10 games a week. The only season that blizzard didn't mess up was this last season where you need a rating for almost every piece of gear. I am a firm believer that the people clearing the hardest pve content should have the best gear in the game. Way Way Way better than anything in pvp.

Farming bg's for hours on end isn't fun too me. So I am happy to see the change away from bg epics. As far as level 80 arena goes I might start up again when that happens. I started my team 6-7months ago and didn't have the heart to farm all the s2 stuff. Arena is always going to be an unbalanced system that requires you to be geared to compete.


edit:

Did welfare epics show up after s3 went live? Before that didn't you have to do arena to get any "good" gear.

[Rin]

I dont believe that Blizzard will go this route. If your source is the forum post that just popped up recently from the gentleman citing that he doesn't believe
"Welfare epics" should exist in the game anymore, I don't think you have anything to fear. If you've received word from a blue post, or something more substaintial
then we'll have to work around that issue. Lets discuss why Blizzard wouldn't take the PvP Epic system out of the game:

- Blizzard is not well known for "reverting" their game - especially back to the "dark" ages, as a change like this would interfere with the game in several different ways. As someone has already cited, think about what would happen if you fought a fully-epic'd low rated pvp team, and you're in blues. Disaster.

- Epics neither hurt nor harm the majority of the populus playing WoW - that's why they implemented them in the first place. PvE'ers have their own game, PvP'ers can participate in their own game. Both sets of gear have advantages in different situations.

Furthermore, I don't think this change would affect us (even if it were true and went live). Here's why:

- Those of us 5-boxing, 10-boxing, etc. can easily put together enough people to raid 20-25 man content. The challenge isn't finding the people, but rather, actively studying the habits of end-game npcs, and then setting up your positioning around the boss. It seems logical that a 25-man team with appropriate gear could successfully take down many of the end-game bosses.

- If the change was live, Blizzard would have to create a system so that everyone could successfully participate in the arenas. If only N-people can compete in the arenas, and BG's become worthless, many subscriptions will be lost.

[Bradster]

- If the change was live, Blizzard would have to create a system so that everyone could successfully participate in the arenas. If only N-people can compete in the arenas, and BG's become worthless, many subscriptions will be lost.

That's my thinking as well. A great of these posts popped up last night, one of which I took part in reached 15 pages and was locked today about the changes made in beta. I'm on the same page on your thinking. I hope they do not take a step back from a system that everyone can advance in with team mates or not.

edit: they were locked due to the amount of "OMG I'm leaving for war if this is true" posts

[sqeaky4100]

Keep the current system the way it is... but add/make:

- All BG's roughly the same length ( they almost are already)
- All BG's worth the same honor. This KILLED BG's... it not only made AV into an AFK fest, but it also created WSG/AB/EoTS a grind that people only did for marks.

- Create 2-3 new BGs. I can't believe we have put up with 2-4 for sooooo long. Imagine if Halo only have 4 maps? My god...
- Make a night/stormy/day setting for each BG. And have it set on random. ( it does this sortof I think already, I remember a few RARE rainy ABs )
- Make different gametype varients for each BG.

• The maps are already perfect mirrors. So it's perfectly possible to make different types of games on each map. ( for instance, imagine an AB/EoTS that had nodes that were captured and locked... so it was a race to capture the first 3 and you win. However, nodes are tough to capture )

- The new BG is a great idea, more of it! Keep BGs intiresting and REWARDING every time.

• Like keep the same system for buying gear, but add another system ( maybe even related to achievements ) ... such as - rewardable mounts, banners you can place somewhere, etc etc... but keep it separate from the current gear purchasing method.

[Rin]

Another thought too -

Did anyone mention if Blizz was going to remove the rating required on the items? IMHO, it seems like they would have to do something if they removed epics from BG's, especially if you need an 1700+ rating to get something nice. Yet, if they indeed remove the rating required on the items, you're going to get people who go into the arena just to lose. Even with a 1100 (lol; don't even think this is possible) rating in 5v5, it would only take you half a year to get full epic armor - losing each battle.

[Prepared]

My 2 cents worth is that the way Blizzard has it now with battelgrounds (BGs) awarding epics not as good as epics given by the top arena players is exactly right. It shouldn't change. Those that participate and keep playing BGs after they've reached the top level of the game are rewarded basically through time played. Those that participate and keep playing arenas are rewarded after they get good at it but they get better gear than those that put in the time into BGs. So to me it's all fair and the way it ought to be. Maybe Warhammer Online has a better method to some, but I like the way the BGs are right now as they are.

It could be that when the expansion is released, there will be very little epics awarded doing BGs just like when Burning Crusade was released and as the seasons changed, better gear became available just as better gear became available doing arena's. This might be where the confusion is from the Blizzard forums. It might be that there will be far less epics at the start of the first season in Wrath of the Lich King just as there were not that many when Burning Crusade was released and as the seasons evolved, more gear was made available.

[Caspian]

MMO Champion (and I am sure other places) has the level 80 PvP gear and costs up.

Basically there is Blue Gear with no rating costs then 2 levels of Epic gear with 2 levels of rating requirements. ALL gear requires both arena and honor points. You do get arena points from Wintergrasp, at a pretty good rate. At least I did when I could actually play it.

Also announced is that they are wiping honor as well as arena but there will be "special" items available for honor before WotLK ships. I can't find any firm data on what those will be, can anyone else?


From MMO Champion level 80 PvP stuffs.

HP = Honor Point
AP = Arena Point
AR = Arena Rating

Savage Gladiator
Chest - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP
Hands - 0 AR - 3600 HP and 200 AP
Head - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP
Legs - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP
Shoulder - 0 AR - 4800 and 275 AP
MH Weapons - 0 AR - 8400 HP and 475 AP
OH Weapons & Items - 0 AR - 3600 HP and 200 AP
Shields - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP
2H Weapons - 0 AR - 12000 HP and 700 AP
Caster 1H Weapons - 0 AR - 10000 HP and 575 AP
Ranged Weapon - 0 AR - 12000 HP and 700 AP
Throwing Weapon - 0 AR - 3200 HP and 175 AP
Wands & Relics - - 0 AR - 3200 HP and 175 AP

Hateful Gladiator
Chest - 1725 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Hands - 1665 AR - 3600 HP and 400 AP
Head - 1785 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Legs - 1695 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Shoulder - 1825 AR - 4800 and 550 AP
MH Weapons - 1755 AR - 8400 HP and 950 AP
OH Weapons & Items - 1755 AR - 3600 HP and 400 AP
Shields - 1755 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
2H Weapons - 1755 AR - 12000 HP and 1400 AP
Caster 1H Weapons - 1755 AR - 10000 HP and 1150 AP
Ranged Weapon - 1755 AR - 1200 HP and 1400 AP
Throwing Weapon - 1755 AR - 3200 HP and 350 AP
Wands - 1755 AR - 3200 HP and 350 AP

Deadly Gladiator:
Chest - 2020 AR - 2250 AP
Hands - 1900 AR - 1350 AP
Head - no AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP ( Most likely bugged )
Legs - 1960 AR - 2250 AP
Shoulder - 2200 AR - 1800 AP
MH Weapons - 2080 AR - 3150 AP
OH Weapons & Items - 2080 AR - 1350 AP
Shields - 2080 AR - 2250 AP
2H Weapons - 2080 AR - 4500 AP
Caster 1H Weapons - 2080 AR - 3150 AP
Ranged Weapon - 2080 AR - 4500 AP
Throwing Weapon - 2080 AR - 1200 AP
Wands - 2080 AR - 1200 AP

My personal take is that unless you are VERY VERY good you will be a second class gear citizen and not be able to break across the gear barriers. Unless you are one of the first to get started and rated. Going from blue to the first set of epics there was a 30+ stamina difference on just one piece.

I have talked about this argument before, playing 10 games a week you get a piece every 4 weeks or so in 2v2 maybe 3 weeks in 5v5 if you stay between 1400-1500. With ratings requirements so high on all epic gear, less people will play if there is no reason to. Then the remaining players have a smaller pool of opponents to play against and ratings drop. Teams that would have been 2000 pt teams with full participation drop to 1800 or 1900, teams naturally at 1900 drop to 1700 or 1800 and so on. Pretty soon only the very best teams will remain and nobody will be able to get the highest levels of gear because the points are just not there to get high enough.

To people that worry that "other people are getting too good of gear just playing 10 games a week" I will tell you the same thing I tell my kids, Stop worrying about your sister ( i.e. everyone else) and worry about you. It is in everyone's - Blizzard's, Elite PvPers to ultra casuals, that gear in this type of ladder system, is obtainable by everyone. Some should get it faster, some should take longer but everyone should have a chance to get it. These type of limitations hurt everyone in the long run.

[raz]

Tigole posted that the Arena points being awarded for Lake Wintergrasp are a Beta only thing. It won't go live like that unless they change their mind (which of course could happen).