Anyone else think war is crud?

[Sanctume]

WoW is NOT WAR.

WAR is not WoW.

They are 2 different games with some MMO similarities.

WAR is enjoyable since I like to PvP. I do PvE as a means to its end.

You level. You get gear. You PvP.

Anyone can do that in WoW, but is it really fun to PvP at level 1? Not in WoW.
Even at level 61 WoW, is it fun to play in AV with a bunch of 70s?
And in WoW, at level 61 in AV -- what is your reward for playing in a 15 minute AV? An AV token, or maybe 3--and some honor of about 1k? which is 1/18 of an S4 gear.

In WAR terms, a level 1 can join a Tier 1 (level 1 to 10) scenario (or Battleground in WoW terms), and be able to queue to join that scenario as soon as that player logs in.
And within 15 minutes max of finishing that scenario, that player is probably level 2, and have enough silver to buy some Rank Renown gear that is decent.

Surely, it can get boring doing the same scenario over and over again. There are 3 different type of scenario in Tier 1.
Nordland is a 3 Flag Arathi Basin type. First 500 points win. Whichever has the most points in 15 minutes wins.
Erkund is another3 Flag Arathi Basin type, but different map/layout, a 2 level Fortress with a collapsed middle.
Khaine is a 2 Flag type map. Of one side caps both flags and hold them for 10 seconds, they get point. The flag area then has a countdown to an explosion that kills everyone near the flag. Fun stuff.

If a player wants some PvE mixed in their levelling, there are "Chapters" for each Race/Area. The Chapters for example are 1 to 19, and the gear rewards Chapter x 2 in level. So, Chapter 1 gives Rank 2 gear, Chapter 2 gives 4, etc.

The zone map and quests leads to a linear progression. Each Chapter have 2 or more Public Quests. Each chapter also have "Influence" reward similar to WoW faction where you get "useful" gear for your level of faction.

The Open Party is an option. I 2-box and I can create an Open Party is I want people to be able to join my group. I can also choose to not make my party Open, and it requires me inviting people in.

There are some "useful" Party / Social implementation. Suppose I have 2 "closed: party, but then decided I need to "merge" my party with an existing party. I can simply invite one of the members of another party, and the leader of that party can choose to join mine and automatically merge.

A party has 6 maximum players. I can also change my party into a Warbard (or Raid in WoW terms), and I can easily merge parties into my warband by inviting any other gorup or warband.

As for "loot rolls" in PQ--it's a good implementation. And sure it is not perfect. The PQ allows casual players to participate in quests they can't solo. But saying someone can just walk up and do 1 damage can earn that player a roll on loot is false. The amount of contribution a player puts toward a PQ is part of the determination if they are allowed to roll.

The low level PQs probably makes contributing to PQs easy by killing 1 of 20 needed mobs. The later levels, some PQ needs 100 mobs kills during stage 1. And killing "packs" of 3 mobs pulls at 2nd stage. A solo guy walking up to damage 1 mob wont have enough contribution.

The random mechanics seems unfair, but most of the time when I do PQ, it is for the Influence reward and not the loot bag. I usually "grind" the PQ 3 or 4 times to get my Influence--and I usually win at least a loot bag from those times.

Anyway, WAR seems to be here and now with some healthy population of players. If some player says it sucks, obviously it is their opinion and a game not for them.

All I have to say that WAR is enough to entertain me now since WoW is stale and I am waiting for what WotLK has to offer.

Now, WotLK is not here. And WAR is, and I'm enjoying my time 2-boxing it. I still have some gripe over the game. WAR is not as polished as WoW. But that polishness does not detract too much from the fun I enjoy in PvP.

[Jezebel]

I love well-designed PVE, and it's not because I got glowy pixels :thumbdown:

EDIT: I should elaborate on this post. If I hadn't said it before in this thread, I'll say it again. It bothers me that WAR right now is basically not even trying to court me over. Everyone right down the designers is talking about the amazingness of RVR or whatever, this PVP stuff, but after watching a long interview with one of the lead designers I got absolutely no excitement about what the PVE is going to offer in this game. WoW may have huge problems in its PVP, mainly for me it's the lack of new battleground maps, but at least it's trying to have both and isn't leaving you out. Bliz wants to have the best PVP and PVE and try to make it all good, and always have wanted to. The Competition from WAR will make them more likely to add more things to please people. However, WAR hasn't said a damn thing about what's to come in the PVE endgame, like "Oh wait until you see the great new raiding we got planned!", none of that. So they're basically not even paying attention to a huge part of the WoW playerbase right now, which is a huge mistake. You don't fully compete with one product by only offering a possible improvement to one area of the game. Maybe this game will be fully competitive in a couple of years.

i disagree entirely with your post. i, for one, am quite thankful that mythic is making no effort to 'win over' PvE players from WoW (or WoW players in general). i dont say that to be offensive, but ive seen the result of a PvP game that gets flooded with PvE players. 1: whining about PvP, especially on FFA servers.. and 2: trying to subvert the focus of the dev team by spamming the forums with loot-centric PvE rubbish. WAR is not trying to compete with WoW. WAR is trying to offer its subscribers a game focused on what mythic does best: realm Vs. realm combat. mythic and their devs have already stated that its inevitable when you have a freak occurance such as WoW in the market that there will be comparisons. there is no way mythic or even EA has the funds to compete with WoW's production team. what they can do, however, is focus on what they do best and provide a superior product for their niche market.

for once i hope a company sticks to its guns and doesnt cave in to the flood of ex-wow kids that, at heart, only want to reproduce the same handicapped PvP environment theyre comfortable with (see: AoC). its frustrating that literally the day after any promising PvP game gets released the WoWers are spamming the forums with "omg i got killed nerf PvP", "omg theres not enough shiny epics", "omg why bother playing at all if i dont get a cookie". if you want to play WoW then play WoW X(

forgive me if i get a bit worked up over this subject. ive seen so many PvP games die from exactly this. they hype up the PvP experience, a bunch of carebears join and start forum-warring and the next thing you know there are PvP jails and ressurection immunity and safe zones and whatever the hell other ways a company can cave in and backflip on its pre-launch promises to the people that actually stuck around since before it even hit beta. two months later.. guess what? all the WoW players are back at WoW yet again and the company is stuck with a product nobody wants and an ex-fanbase that wants nothing to do with them.

[Tehtsuo]

I love well-designed PVE, and it's not because I got glowy pixels :thumbdown:

EDIT: I should elaborate on this post. If I hadn't said it before in this thread, I'll say it again. It bothers me that WAR right now is basically not even trying to court me over. Everyone right down the designers is talking about the amazingness of RVR or whatever, this PVP stuff, but after watching a long interview with one of the lead designers I got absolutely no excitement about what the PVE is going to offer in this game. WoW may have huge problems in its PVP, mainly for me it's the lack of new battleground maps, but at least it's trying to have both and isn't leaving you out. Bliz wants to have the best PVP and PVE and try to make it all good, and always have wanted to. The Competition from WAR will make them more likely to add more things to please people. However, WAR hasn't said a damn thing about what's to come in the PVE endgame, like "Oh wait until you see the great new raiding we got planned!", none of that. So they're basically not even paying attention to a huge part of the WoW playerbase right now, which is a huge mistake. You don't fully compete with one product by only offering a possible improvement to one area of the game. Maybe this game will be fully competitive in a couple of years.

i disagree entirely with your post. i, for one, am quite thankful that mythic is making no effort to 'win over' PvE players from WoW (or WoW players in general). i dont say that to be offensive, but ive seen the result of a PvP game that gets flooded with PvE players. 1: whining about PvP, especially on FFA servers.. and 2: trying to subvert the focus of the dev team by spamming the forums with loot-centric PvE rubbish. WAR is not trying to compete with WoW. WAR is trying to offer its subscribers a game focused on what mythic does best: realm Vs. realm combat. mythic and their devs have already stated that its inevitable when you have a freak occurance such as WoW in the market that there will be comparisons. there is no way mythic or even EA has the funds to compete with WoW's production team. what they can do, however, is focus on what they do best and provide a superior product for their niche market.

for once i hope a company sticks to its guns and doesnt cave in to the flood of ex-wow kids that, at heart, only want to reproduce the same handicapped PvP environment theyre comfortable with (see: AoC). its frustrating that literally the day after any promising PvP game gets released the WoWers are spamming the forums with "omg i got killed nerf PvP", "omg theres not enough shiny epics", "omg why bother playing at all if i dont get a cookie". if you want to play WoW then play WoW X(

i get really worked up over this subject because ive seen so many PvP games die from exactly this. they hype up the PvP experience, a bunch of carebears join and start forum-warring and the next thing you know there are PvP jails and ressurection immunity and safe zones and whatever the hell other ways a company can cave in and backflip on its pre-launch promises to the people that actually stuck around since before it even hit beta.

I can see things from your perspective, but for some reason all my mind's ear hears when reading your post is an angry Halo 3 player complaining that there's no "teabag" key. Please remember that the majority of PVE-centric individuals aren't the kind that say "omg i got killed nerf PvP", "omg theres not enough shiny epics", "omg why bother playing at all if i dont get a cookie" There are some rotten apples, but please be civil...

I for one am mostly a PVE-oriented player, but I am interested to see if Warhammer will be able to make the game succeed in a manner fitting a true PVP-oriented MMO. I'm unsure of how they can pull it off, seeing as one of the basic themes of MMOs, gear progression, usually doesn't play nicely with PVP. Right now, I can't get a clear idea on that, because until there's a larger population with a broader spread of progression I can't really say for sure.

[Jezebel]

I can see things from your perspective, but for some reason all my mind's ear hears when reading your post is an angry Halo 3 player complaining that there's no "teabag" key. Please remember that the majority of PVE-centric individuals aren't the kind that say "omg i got killed nerf PvP", "omg theres not enough shiny epics", "omg why bother playing at all if i dont get a cookie" There are some rotten apples, but please be civil...

i thought that was quite civil. and i disagree. those are exactly the kinds of posts the vast majority of PvE players and MMO players in general make, if you cut out the fat. PvE is predictable and provides tangible rewards. PvP is not and does not. when 1 plus 2 doesnt equal 3 they get upset and go on a forum crusade to change the game to suit themselves. the comment i replied to is a perfect (if mild) example of this.

[Tehtsuo]

I can see things from your perspective, but for some reason all my mind's ear hears when reading your post is an angry Halo 3 player complaining that there's no "teabag" key. Please remember that the majority of PVE-centric individuals aren't the kind that say "omg i got killed nerf PvP", "omg theres not enough shiny epics", "omg why bother playing at all if i dont get a cookie" There are some rotten apples, but please be civil...

i thought that was quite civil. and i disagree. those are exactly the kinds of posts the vast majority of PvE players and MMO players in general make, if you cut out the fat. PvE is predictable and provides tangible rewards. PvP is not and does not. when 1 plus 2 doesnt equal 3 they get upset and go on a forum crusade to change the game to suit themselves. the comment i replied to is a perfect (if mild) example of this.

That sounds like a baseless generalization to me, please provide supporting evidence. I'm not talking about quoting a post or two, because you're not saying "Some PVE'ers launch forum crusades to change the game to suit themselves," you're saying "vast majority of PvE players and MMO players" do. Please try not to generalize, that's all I'm saying. And what fat are you talking about cutting out, all the people who don't fit your generalization?

I myself have already said some words to combat the kind of forum crusade you referred to. A member of my warhammer guild was complaining about Bright Wizard damage, and urged the guild to file suggestions to Mythic to nerf them. I replied that Bright Wizards are dps classes, and they don't usually kill me as a healer, so I didn't see the urgency. His response was they kill him (A sorcerer) a lot, so I got a good chuckle about it. If someone kills you in pvp, learn from it and adjust your strategy, don't run off on a crusade to get other classes nerfed.

[Jezebel]

That sounds like a baseless generalization to me, please provide supporting evidence. I'm not talking about quoting a post or two, because you're not saying "Some PVE'ers launch forum crusades to change the game to suit themselves," you're saying "vast majority of PvE players and MMO players" do. Please try not to generalize, that's all I'm saying. And what fat are you talking about cutting out, all the people who don't fit your generalization?

I myself have already said some words to combat the kind of forum crusade you referred to. A member of my warhammer guild was complaining about Bright Wizard damage, and urged the guild to file suggestions to Mythic to nerf them. I replied that Bright Wizards are dps classes, and they don't usually kill me as a healer, so I didn't see the urgency. His response was they kill him (A sorcerer) a lot, so I got a good chuckle about it. If someone kills you in pvp, learn from it and adjust your strategy, don't run off on a crusade to get other classes nerfed.

it may be baseless or it may not. slightly more challenging than your suggestion, find a PvE/WoW player that has commented in a positive way anywhere in any game forum on real PvP. if it exists, i think youll be searching a while.

opinions are based on experience. im not talking about balance or class issues. im talking about buying one game and then wanting it to be something else. WAR is not WoW. buying or wanting to buy WAR and then complaining for lack of PvE content or excessive focus on RvR is just plain stupid. if i want a pair of shoes i go to a shoe store and buy a pair of shoes. i dont go to an internet cafe and complain at the clerk because he cant give me what i want.

[Tehtsuo]

it may be baseless or it may not. slightly more challenging than your suggestion, find a PvE/WoW player that has commented in a positive way anywhere in any game forum on real PvP. if it exists, i think youll be searching a while.

I concede your point with the understanding that you are not offering more than an opinion, which I would in no way wish to prevent you from offering.

opinions are based on experience. im not talking about balance or class issues. im talking about buying one game and then wanting it to be something else. WAR is not WoW. buying or wanting to buy WAR and then complaining for lack of PvE content or excessive focus on RvR is just plain stupid. if i want a pair of shoes i go to a shoe store and buy a pair of shoes. i dont go to an internet cafe and complain at the clerk because he cant give me what i want.

I have to agree with this, your logic here is sound. WAR is definately not WoW, and I agree that it's not logical to expect it to be. I'm looking for different, not more of the same.

[TheBigBB]

I can see things from your perspective, but for some reason all my mind's ear hears when reading your post is an angry Halo 3 player complaining that there's no "teabag" key. Please remember that the majority of PVE-centric individuals aren't the kind that say "omg i got killed nerf PvP", "omg theres not enough shiny epics", "omg why bother playing at all if i dont get a cookie" There are some rotten apples, but please be civil...

i thought that was quite civil. and i disagree. those are exactly the kinds of posts the vast majority of PvE players and MMO players in general make, if you cut out the fat. PvE is predictable and provides tangible rewards. PvP is not and does not. when 1 plus 2 doesnt equal 3 they get upset and go on a forum crusade to change the game to suit themselves. the comment i replied to is a perfect (if mild) example of this.

PVP is not predictable? When you PVP you face a group of people who have a set of skills they can use, and they may do nothing else but use those skills in some combination. Successful PVP teams don't just make things up as they go along. They identify another team's strategy and counter it using predictable game mechanics. The fun derived from either PVE or PVP or ANY game is when you are against something which is difficult to counter and have to play well to get past it, regardless of knowing the script.

This is like when I sit down to play Rock Band. No amount of knowing the notes will guarantee that I'll actually be able to hit them. Being predictable hardly detracts from the experience of playing a drum, or something. It's the challenge of playing it right that keeps people entertained.

I am not on a crusade to make WAR into a PVE game, but I think it's a poor decision for them to give up on making a meaningful endgame PVE experience if they want to compete. I believe all MMORPGs should have a well developed PVE and PVP experience, and WoW has been successful because it tries to do that. Blizzard wants to make their PVP and PVE the best it can be, but Mythic doesn't seem to. Imagine the situation if someone actually made a MMORPG that was good on the PVE and PVP front? It would be a great day to see that. Competition fuels progress. In that regard, I hope to see Blizzard improve their PVP now that they have someone competing for their PVP players.

[magwo]

My views:

I've tried several of the classes in WAR now.. to level 6-8.. and not a single one felt fun to play. I just feel weak and useless with all the classes. Healers heal too little, dps:ers are hard to make work, tanks die quite easily and have no real dps whatsoever. Everything about WAR just feels lackluster and uninspiring to me. I never get "F*** yeah I'm the win" feeling that is common in WoW, even when single boxing.

As it looks now, I will stop playing WAR entirely. The game just doesn't appeal to me. It feels sluggish and boring.

[Kopitar]

My views:

I've tried several of the classes in WAR now.. to level 6-8.. and not a single one felt fun to play. I just feel weak and useless with all the classes. Healers heal too little, dps:ers are hard to make work, tanks die quite easily and have no real dps whatsoever. Everything about WAR just feels lackluster and uninspiring to me. I never get "F*** yeah I'm the win" feeling that is common in WoW, even when single boxing.

As it looks now, I will stop playing WAR entirely. The game just doesn't appeal to me. It feels sluggish and boring.

Tanks get much tougher after the first few levels and can do same insane damage.