[WotLK] Bloodlust/Heroism change - no more round robin

[Majestic_Clown]

guys, bloody hell.

Your missing the big picture!!!
no more agro related buffs due to a mechanic change which means you will have a replacement buff when in a group with a pally.

Also you have no idea how this is all going to work, dont think of these changes now with BC, wait until wrath somes out cos there could well be a perfect reason.

I remember the QQ preBC and then it worked out well

[Shogun]

Something to remember is not everyone MB's 4-5 shamis, the changes aren't aimed at MB, or a personal attack on them.

These changes are made with "normal" players and group/raid mechanics in mind. If you have to bring certain classes or specs for a raid to be viable, then you're screwing over anyone who isn't playing that class/spec. The changes aren't aimed at making all classes the same, that's never going to happen, what they're aimed at is ensuring you can build your raid around tanks/healers/dps regardless of class or spec, not "you must have 3-5 shaman, 2-3 shadow priests, no rogues, only 1 of this blahblah"

I can understand some people's frustration as the changes hit boxers harder in some respect, but at the end of the day we're playing the game differently to the rest of the playerbase, and the way we play isn't really intended, it's allowed/tolerated.

MB are still a minority, which is lucky, if too many people were doing what Ellay is doing in arenas, eventualy Blizz would give in to the QQ, they always do. If 4/5 shamis becomes less viable now, well so what? You're less able to wtfpwn people without relying on other classes/players? At the end of the day things like 4/5 of any class as a MB is fun, but it's alot easier than 3-5 different classes. I'm not saying what Ellay/others do in arena is easy, hell I can't play 1 toon well in arenas let alone 4 :P But it's alot easier than multiple classes/specs and shouldn't necesarily be better...

Anyways, we'll have to wait n' see what goes live and what doesn't, overall as a MB I'm a little annoyed, as a WoW player I'm looking forwards to being able to raid with 9 other people and see all content, and that those 9 people can be friends of mine, not 6 friends and 3 guys we had to bring to fill vital class roles.

[merujo]

What i hate the most, is that their making this changes to make raid more noob friendly. Any retard can make a raid now without having to sort groups out, or whatever.
Sorting groups, and bringing the right classes/specs to a certain encounter, was a sign that ppl knew what they were doing. Now u just have to inv whoever is online.

For a moment i thought this was only applied to Raids. But its also to Party's.
Having to pay this price because Bliz decided to make buffs, raid buffs, it's kinda stupid. I hope, i seriously do, that they have a brain and think about arenas or even PvP. At least arenas is a completly different bussiness. I won't go there as a raid, therefore, i shouldn't have restrictions on what and how i can use, because i dont benefict from no more party's.

Anyways, they gotta see how this will affect pvp in bg's and PvE on partys 5 man, because its doesnt make sense to be on a party and follow the rules of being on a raid, and being in AV, and everyone inside get heroism at a start and cant use it when he/she wants.

[Shogun]

[~Sanjoin~]

I also see good changes in coming.
Look at the new talents for Tankadins and Resto Shamans ...
Looks to me like some big (not to say huge) improvements.
You will always find a way to DPS mobs/bosses down with 3 DPS classes if the healer can keep the tank alive an the tank can maintain aggro on all mobs.
Just because some totem effects won't stack anymore doesn't mean everything is lost and all is a crap.

I see also good things coming up and I think the ones will somehow balance the others.

[Nixi]

As someone who plays all phases of the game as a multiboxer, Raids, Battlegrounds, Arenas, 5 Mans, Quests, World PVP, etc., I have to say all the proposed changes are mostly negative. My strength as a multiboxer has always been to min/max, with complete and total control, my party and raid. And the latest change to Blood lust is really shitty. I know most of us don't 10 box, but these changes do hurt boxing raids in addition to all other aspects of the game that boxers play.

But as someone else has mentioned, we are the minority, and I do see the changes as good for the game overall. I mean, the reason it's possible to multibox is because of how easy the game is. Hello, I can I clear most of Karazhan by pushing 2 or 3 different buttons. Playing the game is just not that involved, and there are some changes that will demand more interaction from the user, thereby more micromanagment from the multiboxer.

If I carry on into WotLK, I'll strongly considering going solo-boxing.

[Fuzzyboy]

What i hate the most, is that their making this changes to make raid more noob friendly. Any retard can make a raid now without having to sort groups out, or whatever.
Sorting groups, and bringing the right classes/specs to a certain encounter, was a sign that ppl knew what they were doing. Now u just have to inv whoever is online.

For a moment i thought this was only applied to Raids. But its also to Party's.
Having to pay this price because Bliz decided to make buffs, raid buffs, it's kinda stupid. I hope, i seriously do, that they have a brain and think about arenas or even PvP. At least arenas is a completly different bussiness. I won't go there as a raid, therefore, i shouldn't have restrictions on what and how i can use, because i dont benefict from no more party's.

Anyways, they gotta see how this will affect pvp in bg's and PvE on partys 5 man, because its doesnt make sense to be on a party and follow the rules of being on a raid, and being in AV, and everyone inside get heroism at a start and cant use it when he/she wants.

The challenge of raids was never really about setting up groups, but more about having people work together and have an amount of discipline and dedication. If you were unable to setup a raid pre-changes, you might not be after but you'll still fail the encounters. What the changes does provide is more flexibility and less forced specs, which IMO is good. Does it suck that we can't RR our heroism/bloodlust any longer? Sure, but I've never _had_ to cast heroism back to back to beat an encounter. It's more of a convenience which allows for faster clearing of trash. It's a nerf, sure, but not really that significant except for in PvP, especially considering that we will get air totem haste, increased dmg from totems and flametongue.

In PvP it's another story, but it only hits groups with more than one shaman, which isn't very many on a global level, it just happens to hit us MB'ers pretty hard because there's a lot of shammie teams. The alternative, being able to cast it back to back raidwide, isn't a realistic scenario and would make shaman too high a priority compared to other classes in 25-man raids.

[Bradster]

The thing that comes to mind is healing stream totems, also Blessing of Wisdom and Mana spring. If those get axed that would, well suck.

Thankfully this is only limited to buffs and debuffs. If they did this to DPS no more focus fire. No 16 insta cast dots, no 5 x Chain lightning. would also be a pain in the ass for arenas if 2 people play the same class. Just count our lucky stars on this aspect.

[Steph]

From a raid leader perspective, there are too many party buffs to consider at the moment. As tank, I like to have tree of life, bloodpact, wrath/grace of air, commanding shout and some others. Weapon dps wants battleshout, grace of air, windfury, trueshot aura. Magic dps wants moonkin aura, wrath of air, spriest. My point is, you have only one or two people who get all the buffs they want, the rest will have to make do with less. That shuffle is annoying and can lead to 'me want into the goodie group!' arguments.

Getting rid of blessing of salvation and blessing of light by 'folding them into the respective spells' i.e. basically assuming they are always there are changes I certainly welcome. Of course, some things have to be changed in the transition from party wide to raid wide buffs, but the overall change is good. Yes, one effect of this is that multiboxers who stack classes will be hit by some of this, but I don't think it will be crippling blow.

[Fizzler]

In the past I have had a bad habit of jumping to conclusions and getting worked up over nothing. I was so upset when they changed the way macro's worked making decurse a whack a mole and doing away with mods like lazy rogue. On hindsight those changes were not that bad and made the game more challenging. I will wait until it pans out with one talent or play style out the door another one opens.... i hope.