Best 5 Man Instance Group

[Vyndree]

I have a level 70 warrior and lvl 70 priest already.

Level up 5 dps classes, or 4 dps classes and a healer.

When you hit 70, swap in your existing 70 war and 70 priest and you're gtg.

Because CC = easymode, I'd suggest finding the easiest dps classes you can play that have decent CC. Try rolling a pally + 4 dps if you want to respec the pally to tank or healer when you hit 70 and you've got alot of options.

My bf has had success now that he's hit outlands running 1 priest, 3 mages, 1 warrior.

[jdraughn]

Well here's a better question for you. Can a pally really tank at the low levels? Like lvl 20 for Deadmines and lvl 25 for Stockades? They don't get their good tanking abilities until later... right?

I'm thinking I like the idea of 1 priest, 1 pally, 2 mages, 1 warlock. Really sucks, because I have 4 locks sitting at lvl 14 heh.

I did RFC at level 14 with 1 pallie and 4 priests. It got real tough with 3 or 4 mobs. Pally has no way of really pulling from afar so I had to either pull with my priests (but then they got initial agro from the whole group), or run up with my pally so he gets the inital agro.

now we are all level 24 and I am about to try SFK. I tried it in my late teens and managed to get to the bottom of the stairs in the courtyard at the very beginning but there were too many adds and I was having trouble keeping agro on them all. The adds would take out my priests and that would be that.

Now I have consecration so shouldin't be as much of a problem, as soon as they run toward a priest they will be on top of my consecration and I will get agro.

[Vyndree]

Well here's a better question for you. Can a pally really tank at the low levels? Like lvl 20 for Deadmines and lvl 25 for Stockades? They don't get their good tanking abilities until later... right?

I'm thinking I like the idea of 1 priest, 1 pally, 2 mages, 1 warlock. Really sucks, because I have 4 locks sitting at lvl 14 heh.

I did RFC at level 14 with 1 pallie and 4 priests. It got real tough with 3 or 4 mobs. Pally has no way of really pulling from afar so I had to either pull with my priests (but then they got initial agro from the whole group), or run up with my pally so he gets the inital agro.

now we are all level 24 and I am about to try SFK. I tried it in my late teens and managed to get to the bottom of the stairs in the courtyard at the very beginning but there were too many adds and I was having trouble keeping agro on them all. The adds would take out my priests and that would be that.

Now I have consecration so shouldin't be as much of a problem, as soon as they run toward a priest they will be on top of my consecration and I will get agro.

Sorry for the massive quote. Pallies get righetous fury at 16 - at that point they're good to go for tanking purposes. Keep in mind that you're in control of your dps - you can choose not to start dpsing until the pally has solid aggro.

As for damage soaking, I do notice at low levels (below 40) my warrior takes less damage than my paladin. Because the paladin either needs constant healing or gear with int, they sacrifice stats that work for both aggro generation and damage mitigation (example: str on a war increases block as well as threat, whereas a pally needs both int to cast spells for threat as well as block value/str).

Once you get holy shield, though, the difference I see with pally threat vs warrior threat is enormous. With a paladin tank you can start dps immediately, and with a warrior you have to wait for a couple sunders. The paladin takes more damage, but fights tend to be faster as the paladin is also putting out significant dps.

Anyway, both are viable. Druids are probably also a good choice, as they get bearform at 10 and if you're just quest grinding (and don't need a tank) they can also do some mild ranged dps or healing in caster form.

Oh, and by the way, pick up engineering on your pally. Not only is the tankatronic goggles in endgame completely sweet, but you can pull using bombs until you get your avenger's shield.

[kayb]

A paladin needs neither strenght or intelligence.

If you want optimal tanking (read: max control) go for +defense, stamina, block that kinda thing.

If you want optimal threat, go for +spelldmg gear in addition to +defense, sta, dodge etc. +spelldmg items usable for tanking are few and far between, even after Outland, but your mainhand weapon should be a caster weapon, as opposed to a dps weapon.

[Vyndree]

A paladin needs neither strenght or intelligence.

My comment was that there were no stats that paladins use that benefit both damage mitigation as well as threat generation.

For a warrior, strength benefits both block and threat. This means they can get more out of less stats.

You'd be hard pressed to find low level pally plate with spelldmg or defense. Because most of what you're going to find is warrior gear, you're either going to have to gear with AH greens (plate "of the eagle" gear or "of stamina") or warrior gear (which includes pts spent in strength, which you don't gain much benefit from besides a TEENY bit of block. Wars get that teeny bit of block PLUS threat generation).

It's typically hard for me to keep a decent mana pool on my pally without getting int gear at low levels. Even with shaman dropping a mana spring and healing stream totem and making sure her health is topped off, spamming holy shield she goes oom by the end of every pull.

Basically my point is a pally in equal gear will either take more damage (or generate less threat if they decide to wear warrior gear) compared to warrior in similar level gear due to points being spread out for paladins - they have so many things they need stats for. This is true endgame when more gear points are spent for spelldamage, stam, mitigation stats when warriors get stam, mitigation, and threat generation is rolled right in there with mitigation stats so they tend to have even more mitigation than pallies who have to "waste" points on spelldmg.

Not saying pally tanks are bad. They are great at holding aggro and aoe damage. It's just that there's more gear with optimal stats and more bang-per-buck per each stat on a warrior. So pick according to your preference.

[jdraughn]

True, it's a known fact that pallies have to work harder to be able to tank the same things a warrior can, but as far as what I feel would work best with my setup, of 4 priests and 1 tank, the pallie tanks the spot (pun intended).

Mana should not be a problem with 4 vamperic touches, so I don't even have to consider intel as a stat, with any of them. Since they will in essense have unlimited mana, they changes things quite a bit. Same thing with health. I am going to stack stamina on my pallie like there is no tomorrow, but with my priests... naaaa They simply shouldin't be getting hit.

Of course it's going to happen sometimes but I would rather stack more +spell dmg on them because that equals more mana for the pallie and themselves, not to mention more healing for the pallie.

Things are working out real good so far. I got totally screwed up in SFK recently. I beat the first boss, then went up the stairs behind him and came up against some guy who was reflecting all magic on myself. So my SW:P was ending up on my priests, and my pallie. Now I wonder if dispelling could have fixed that problem, but one of my accounts needs to be reenabled and im broke right now ;(

[kayb]

My comment was that there were no stats that paladins use that benefit both damage mitigation as well as threat generation.

I should have pointed out that I was talking about end game. You're right in that a paladin will be tanking in warrior gear until Outland, and probably until level 70 when you start to gather Righteous Armor. Block is an incredible threat stat, with Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanctuary and shield spike, your threat will really spike when blocking.

As for running oom. I almost exclusively use seal of wisdom, this allows me to keep up holy shield all the time, and also consecrate alot. On bosses I will maybe judge wisdom and use seal of righteousness, but this seal isnt as useful in the lower levels. Also remember that you can judge wisdom on multiple enemies and have consecrate ticks return mana to you. This requires some effort in the micro department, but can be valuable when having a small mana pool. I also use [Fist of Stone] which sometimes procs 50 mana (quite low procrate). Another thing is that the weapon in the mainhand needs to be quite fast. Around 1.8 is nice, this will allow you to make use of all the reckoning procs, which all can return mana from seal of wisdom. Oom should not be a problem even with little int.

[Zaelar]

I thought you only got mana back with judgement of wisdom from melee attacks.

[kayb]

Both proc. You judge seal of wisdom on a mob, then cast a new seal when you need to regain mana bad. You need to do a melee hit on the mob with judgement every 30 seconds, to refresh the duration. This is what makes it hardt to keep judgements up on 2-3 mobs or more, when boxing. Personally I would never do it on more than 1 mob cause it takes to much attention away from healing and dpsing.

And there's one other thing I forgot to mention that makes paladin a kickass tank. Ranged taunt ability. It's a lifesaver for those patrols who happen upon your castergroup, when you dont have time/are unable to run back to grab aggro.

I just target the mob and use this macro:
/cast [target=targettarget, help] righteous defense