Guilds and PvE Progress

[Suvega]

a) Alot of later BT fights will be difficult to do 4 boxing.
Supremus (one gets punted)
Najentus (Spikes, and reacting to them, and keeping them spread out etc)
Teron Gorefiend (Wee when your'e doing your ghost your other 3 will be hard to control)
RoS - Mana issues prob
Mother shiraz = you insta gibbed when teleported, or gibbing groups, or gibbing tanks
Illidari council = you just dps and avoid shit from teh sky, but since you're all on top of each other you'll get faced in blizzard/flamestrikes / etc
Illidan = Spreading out, reacting to fiends, etc will be lame.


b) Guilds who are trying to progress don't want to carry you.
You will never be as effective as 4 equally skilled players. Period.

c) If they aren't carrying you, then you're with bad players



Just find a guild who is friendly with you and your boxing, and progress with them.

You will never find a guild willing to take in some stranger who is playing 4 chars at once.
Even ellay was doing the most simplistic of manuveres and being carried in the raids he did (Vash he jsut dpsed the strider and totally ignored the rest of the fight, ie cores)

[Bluepants]

a) Alot of later BT fights will be difficult to do 4 boxing.
Supremus (one gets punted)
Najentus (Spikes, and reacting to them, and keeping them spread out etc)
Teron Gorefiend (Wee when your'e doing your ghost your other 3 will be hard to control)
RoS - Mana issues prob
Mother shiraz = you insta gibbed when teleported, or gibbing groups, or gibbing tanks
Illidari council = you just dps and avoid shit from teh sky, but since you're all on top of each other you'll get faced in blizzard/flamestrikes / etc
Illidan = Spreading out, reacting to fiends, etc will be lame.


b) Guilds who are trying to progress don't want to carry you.
You will never be as effective as 4 equally skilled players. Period.

c) If they aren't carrying you, then you're with bad players



Just find a guild who is friendly with you and your boxing, and progress with them.

You will never find a guild willing to take in some stranger who is playing 4 chars at once.
Even ellay was doing the most simplistic of manuveres and being carried in the raids he did (Vash he jsut dpsed the strider and totally ignored the rest of the fight, ie cores)

I do respect your opinions But.. A couple of encounters arent as hard as you put them.

Najentus, i actually do better than 4 "normal" ranged DPS, because of 2 things, first off : i have 100% control over "my" spikes, the only pant that needs to be watched is my main, and second my chain heal macro ups my 4 guys to 100% HP, so the healers can consentrate on others. And as im sure you know.. This fight is won solely (is that even a word?) on the healing when the shield is up.

Supremus is doable, ill try a new way to respond on him running after one of my pants... The last time i got pwnd by volcanoes that spawned on my main running in front..
The next time, i will send the one with aggro on autorun in a direction we want supremus.

I havent done Teron, but when ghost you spam 1button and use 2 others from time to time, a simple macro setup of the second cast bar on every alt, to correspond icelance with lightning bolt will make this easier, since the alts that are still alive will most likely be stationary. If the main gets targeted for ghost, a simple main change will be enough to keep the alts going on teron.

On RoS, why would mana issues affect me, and not a single player? On Kaz in MH, i lived longer and did more dmg than alot of other ranged DPS.

Council, same as D&D on Rage.. easy to move, just strafe on all chars at the same time.. Same reaction time as other players.

A little more info is in my thread in the PvE part of the forums, i will keep it up to date post any suggestions or questions there, im sure alot of other people are wondering too

As a sidenote, not as an attack in anyway, so with the upmost respect.. I am puzzled that you of all people see the limitations of multiboxing and not the possibilities, you are after all one of the pioneers of mulitboxing.
MH and BT does take ALOT more single alt control, i practice alot on this art, and god damnit i will kill Illidan with my boys!

When i need to move 2 alts at one time, ill start to see the limitations but as long as its group control plus moving 1 alt, its doable :!:

[Akoko]

If I was a raid leader I wouldn't let 4 or 5 slots be taken up by a multiboxer. That's 1/5th of the entire raid group, and 1/5th of all its resources in one place, all in the hands of one person, who makes mistakes regardless of how much preparation, practice, and experience you have. Even if I could get over the risk factor alone, most guilds would fall apart if they would sub out 4 regular players for "non-human" so to speak characters.

If you do manage to get a permanent spot in a good raiding guild, I imagine that you will be under so much pressure that you would collapse. One mistake and you're gone. BG's are already a problem enough as it is, getting so much attention and having losses blamed entirely on the multiboxer. But imagine 4 runaways causing a wipe :P That would be a sure ticket for gkick x4, even if it's only to preserve the raiding initiative for the other single boxing members.

One of the reasons I two box instead of 5 box is because it's so much less intrusive. I'm sure it wouldn't be nearly as difficult to get two into a raid as opposed to 5. I also like to group with friends for regular instances. Playing entirely with myself defeats the entire purpose of the game :P

[Suvega]

You forget that I also PvE raid over multibox (Currently working on Kil'jae) :P

Elemental shaman do less dps then any other dps class with the same gear (Except maybe shadow preists or ret pallies?), and RoS is a dps critical fight. Simply put, progessing on RoS is completly determinent on your ability to push dps at critical moments, which an elemental shaman was DESIGNED not to do (max dps char). Shaman are designed to do mediocre dps, but to buff the shit out of everyone else. You are able to stack these buffs by putting all your shaman in one group to stack ToW to bring your dps to about par of a rogue, or a lock, etc. However RAID dps is still MUCH lower then if you actually created synergy between classes.

TLDR: Bringing 4/5 ele shamans can only be done when the group over gears an instance. (Gear overcoming the tuning of the fight)

I'm just saying, from a guild perspective, unless you progress WITH them, you can guarentee that no guild is going to want to take the chance on having 1 person mess up 4* as worse.

Not to mention you bring little synergy to the raid when you're all grouped up in one group, nor the fact that you have 1/5 the coordination of a single player of equal skill.
I respect what you have done in BT with how far you've gotten, but I'm saying that someone should NOT expect a free ride into a new guild. You have earned your spot, and are (most likely), able to maintain your status as you are more skilled then the rest of your guildmates.

The OP on the other hand, is asking why guilds won't take him in. Well it's because:
1) you have no rep with them
2) they have no idea of your skill
3) your requests are mad, why can one person bring 4 characters, and deprive their fellow guildmates of raiding?
4) Your class is an underpowered class that relies on less raid synergy to perform on par with other dps.

Multiboxing is a playstyle, High-end raiding is a playstyle. They dont' mix easily. You can casually raid multiboxing, but high end raids are intended to test each cahracters individual skill, in coordination with the rest of the people.

Simply put, they are designed to make it as hard as possible to multibox, if not impossible. And in fact I LOVE that they do this, because it gives me the chance to really test how well I can play a singular character well.


TL;DR:
OP: Don't expect to get in a guild already in BT unless they are your fanbois, or you have progressed with them through BT. No guild wants to carry you. (And no matter what you say, joining a guild who has already cleared content that you have never seen, is being carried).
Pants: I applaud your progression through BT, and I'm glad you have the opportunity to. I expect several challanges for you. 1) Coordination on fights (BT over any instance other then sw requires alot of individual movement and concentration). 2) DPS. Your class is sub-par dps. At least there is badge gear that allows you to overgear BT's tuning.

[TheBigBB]

There's no way a progression guild would get far into Tier 6 content using a 5-box team as a main raiding staple. I could see it being viable on many things, but not T6 bosses. On Teron, ghosts overlap a bit, what do you do when more than one of your characters is a ghost at the same time in a different spot, and the others are all still trying to DPS? It'd be a disaster. What do you do on Supremus when one of them gets punted away and the others are standing around potentially in a volcano? What do you do on Archi when someone is thrown into the air? What do you do on Azgalor when one of the toons gets doom and the others don't; can you run him over to the tank while the others maintain DPS and stay out of fire? What about Bloodboil, maybe he's at 30% and group 1 and 2 need replacements for bloodboil soaking at different times? Then the groups all spread out for phase 2, what happens?

Even if you found solutions for some bosses, it's not practical to expect to raid and get anywhere far. 1/9 BT is not a great feat, no offense to anyone. Najentus isn't the problem.

[Bluepants]

Even if you found solutions for some bosses, it's not practical to expect to raid and get anywhere far. 1/9 BT is not a great feat, no offense to anyone. Najentus isn't the problem.

The feat itself is not 1/9 BT, its 1/9 BT and 3/5 MH progress in 1 week.....
We went from wiping in SSC on lurker to take 2/5 MH on one night. (Yes, the two first bosses are easy compared to the rest)
I think it is all about focus, not purely skill, we have skilled players and OK gear to start MH/BT but in SSC/TK people just dont focus. its like running normal SP with your shammies everything goes easy, but if you loose focus for 1 min you still can wipe.

This type of discussion was started a long time ago.....
How can you cope with sheep? or AoE fear? or people ressing? a multiboxer can NEVER be good in arena....

Im not saying ill become the "Ellay" of PvE, its just that i have a fair chance of end-game raiding and ill take the challenges of every boss, if i find a boss i cannot do, ill leave the raid with 3 alts for that fight.(IF we can find the DPS to raplace them)

[Dominian]

Even if you found solutions for some bosses, it's not practical to expect to raid and get anywhere far. 1/9 BT is not a great feat, no offense to anyone. Najentus isn't the problem.

The feat itself is not 1/9 BT, its 1/9 BT and 3/5 MH progress in 1 week.....
We went from wiping in SSC on lurker to take 2/5 MH on one night. (Yes, the two first bosses are easy compared to the rest)
I think it is all about focus, not purely skill, we have skilled players and OK gear to start MH/BT but in SSC/TK people just dont focus. its like running normal SP with your shammies everything goes easy, but if you loose focus for 1 min you still can wipe.

This type of discussion was started a long time ago.....
How can you cope with sheep? or AoE fear? or people ressing? a multiboxer can NEVER be good in arena....

Im not saying ill become the "Ellay" of PvE, its just that i have a fair chance of end-game raiding and ill take the challenges of every boss, if i find a boss i cannot do, ill leave the raid with 3 alts for that fight.(IF we can find the DPS to raplace them)

Its up to you to prove us wrong and i wish you good luck

Dont listen to thoose who says its not possible!

[Kyudo]

Well I for one salute the Pants' and Funkstar's ambitions and progress to date. Just because these things have not been done before, records and barriers are there to be broken. If the guilds are willling to accept them as boxed chars all power to them. I wish you both the best of success. There is little point in naysaying their efforts before these bosses have even been attempted.

[Otlecs]

If the guilds are willling to accept them as boxed chars all power to them. I wish you both the best of success. There is little point in naysaying their efforts before these bosses have even been attempted.

I couldn't agree with this more, and I've read the adventures of the Pants (that sounds so wrong!!) with great interest and perhaps just a little twinge of envy

But he is TRULY the exception rather than the rule, and I think all of the nay-saying commenst to date aren't detracting from his exceptional success, but rather managing the expectations of the original poster (and others) who is in fact having trouble getting into a raiding guild.

[Steph]

My guild is at 4/5 MH and 5/9 BT. I am the guild leader. My main is a tankadin. I box four shamans, focussing on PvP. 2/5 Brutal now, everything else I could buy for honor.

My 2 cents on this:

I took two of my shaman to Archimonde yesterday. The raid was led by the deputy guild master. The reasoning was that I could up the total amount of shaman in the raid to 5 and we could have a tremor totem for each group. I stuck my chars between the two groups I had to cover and it went reasonably well, once people stopped standing on top of me sharing their air bursts. I would not have gone for this though if we had enough people with sufficient gear and a stable connection available on that night.

I regularly ran Kara the last few weeks for the badges needed for the pvp cloak and the battlemaster trinket. Using both my tankadin as only tank on the run and my shaman as primary dps, that leaves five spots for 2-3 healers are more dps. Depending on the week, there have been dps that were stronger than my shaman or well, not stronger. =] The only bosses in Kara that I have not repeatedly and reliably killed while five-boxing are the Netherspite and the servant's quarter random boss, which we do not usually go for.

That being said, my point is: on any serious raid, I personally do not want to box. On farming raids that I outgear anyway I see no reason not to box. Feel free to call me a wimp. =]