Leatherworking

[Aradar]

Cost = Time, or as our green skinned entrepreneurs are fond to say "Time is money, friend!"
Lets compare PvP cost to obtain to the same gear slots you get from LW -- Netherstrike Belt, Bracers, Chest, and Hurricane Boots. I will assume that a new-ish L70 cannot buy the S4 BG pieces because of the personal arena ranking requirement, so here's what we have:

S4 BG belt is 17850
S3 BG bracer is 9199
S3 BG boots are 13923
S2 Arena chest is 14500

= 55472 honor.

I did the math recently and to level 1->375 LW and craft these 4 pieces it cost around 3000g, figuring a base rate of 100g/hour then you get 30H /played to do your LW and get your epics.
Can you earn 55472/30 = 1850 honor per hour? Not including earning the necessary marks.

There is also the opportunity costs to consider - using up a tradeskill for LW, things like that.

3,000g = two days of dailies if I get a full run in so 6 days for all 3 toons.

1,850 honor per hour plus marks? Not in my battlegroup.

Guess that seals the deal...

[Stabface]

"The Big Deal" for me with Leatherworking is looking ahead to WotLK. The grind from 1->375 is a one-time cost, while all the PvP items you earn today will be very quickly obsolete at L80. Yes, skilling up to the new cap and creating the new gear will be expensive, but it's something that can be easily done in quest greens and blues at L80. Farming the new heroics will be much more challenging in those greens and blues.
Furthermore, go compare the Netherstrike gear to the original S1 gear, I'd suggest comparing it to the original badge gear but there wasn't any good pieces

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27469 vs http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29519

Not only is Netherstrike better for PvE by a good margin, I guarantee you that you can get the L80 LW gear faster than the L80 Arena gear, and likely faster than L80 PvP gear if you prepare now for it. It's around 3 months to the estimated release date... if you farmed gold a few hours a week between now and then you'd have more than enough likely to buy your way up to the new LW cap and get your epics. You could possibly do the same with PvP by banking a bunch of honor, I am not sure...

[Aradar]

"The Big Deal" for me with Leatherworking is looking ahead to WotLK. The grind from 1->375 is a one-time cost, while all the PvP items you earn today will be very quickly obsolete at L80. Yes, skilling up to the new cap and creating the new gear will be expensive, but it's something that can be easily done in quest greens and blues at L80. Farming the new heroics will be much more challenging in those greens and blues.
Furthermore, go compare the Netherstrike gear to the original S1 gear, I'd suggest comparing it to the original badge gear but there wasn't any good pieces

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27469 vs http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29519

Not only is Netherstrike better for PvE by a good margin, I guarantee you that you can get the L80 LW gear faster than the L80 Arena gear, and likely faster than L80 PvP gear if you prepare now for it. It's around 3 months to the estimated release date... if you farmed gold a few hours a week between now and then you'd have more than enough likely to buy your way up to the new LW cap and get your epics. You could possibly do the same with PvP by banking a bunch of honor, I am not sure...

I agree and once you get through the pre-TBC phase of any crafting (below 300) it gets better supply wise and I assume the same will be true with WotLK so I'd rather do it now.

[pinotnoir]

If your having trouble getting marks I would suggest getting wsg and ab marks at level 59. Then when you reach lvl 69 get your eots marks. Once your 70 you can premade av if your server does that for the rest of your honor and marks. PVP gear is a win win to me. You can use it for heroics and pvp.

It's a no brainer for me on the pvp gear. You grind the honor 1 time and get it for all your toons. If you are crafting you need to grind it 5 times (assuming you have 5). Then you have to farm mats for 5 toons. Its too much gold and time in my opinion. You can grind honor for 1 day and have a boot on all your toons. There is a reason why they call them welfare epics.

Vindicator Boot
702 Armor
+43 Stamina
+30 Intellect
Durability 70 / 70
Classes: Hunter, Shaman
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves spell critical strike rating by 29 (1.31% @ L70).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 27 (0.68% @ L70).
Equip: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 35.

Hurricane Boot
619 Armor
+25 Stamina
+26 Intellect
Durability 70 / 70
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves spell critical strike rating by 26 (1.18% @ L70).
Equip: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 39.
Equip: Restores 6 mana per 5 sec.

[roddo]

I solo leveled a lock to 70, took me 3 monthes or 9 days played, and then i did the honor grind and got all welfare/arena epics, which took me another 2 monthes and maybe 7 days played. My hunter Took me alot longer to 70 (was 60 for almost 2 years) and I used lw and heroics to gear up, probably took me 2 weeks to go from barely 70 in greens, to well geared with mostly epics by doing 1 heroic a night, and getting all 3 epic lw pieces. I did however grind the s1 crossbow. I had more fun getting my hunter to an equivelant pve gear level, took alot less time, and I have a skill that Is highly useful to me now, and also profitable and something i can use down the road to get more gear/profits from. Once I level my lock all that time pvp grinding is wasted, while my hunters grind was faster and more fun, and holds its value.

I can't use the honor from my lock for anything but my lock, while my hunter can make gear for alts/friends/guildies/random people who want to pay me to click a button. I'll never do a full pvp grind again on any character, its to much like work, yet i can farm netherscales and other lw components for hours and enjoy myself while doing it(I'm strange I guess). Long story short, do what you find fun, but to me theres more value in the tradeskill route, and its a rewarding feeling getting to 375 and knowing you reached your goal.

[Stabface]

The Vindicator boots have +18 ilvls and for PvE purposes are the same if not marginally worse than the Hurricane boots...

I have no idea how you can say it's too time consuming to get the LW items. Yes, 1-375 is a bit rough but once it's done it's done and you don't need to do it again to get more gear. Collecting the mats is time consuming or expensive (the same, really) but honestly is not THAT bad. Maybe 1500g... 15 hours played at 70. I'd compare it time-wise to grinding out marks pre-70... but once you buy your 1st set of PvP gear with those, then the next tier comes out and ? Grind more marks right? If you PvP all the time then yeah, PvP gear all the way as you need the resil and the marks/honor will come in as you are playing anyways. I just can't see grinding for PvP gear if you're focused on PvE though.

Plans + mats for the Hurricane boots will go for about... 400g total on my server, which is <4 hours of grinding for gold on a single character. If I only need it for one, then I run 5 chars in parallel and get the gold in <1 hour, or if I need it on all 5 then it's still only <4 hours of grinding. Assuming you have the 40 EOTS marks, can you grind out ~3500 honor per hour for the PvP boots? Honestly?

[pinotnoir]

The Vindicator boots have +18 ilvls and for PvE purposes are the same if not marginally worse than the Hurricane boots...

I have no idea how you can say it's too time consuming to get the LW items. Yes, 1-375 is a bit rough but once it's done it's done and you don't need to do it again to get more gear. Collecting the mats is time consuming or expensive (the same, really) but honestly is not THAT bad. Maybe 1500g... 15 hours played at 70. I'd compare it time-wise to grinding out marks pre-70... but once you buy your 1st set of PvP gear with those, then the next tier comes out and ? Grind more marks right? If you PvP all the time then yeah, PvP gear all the way as you need the resil and the marks/honor will come in as you are playing anyways. I just can't see grinding for PvP gear if you're focused on PvE though.

Plans + mats for the Hurricane boots will go for about... 400g total on my server, which is <4 hours of grinding for gold on a single character. If I only need it for one, then I run 5 chars in parallel and get the gold in <1 hour, or if I need it on all 5 then it's still only <4 hours of grinding. Assuming you have the 40 EOTS marks, can you grind out ~3500 honor per hour for the PvP boots? Honestly?

I ground 375 LW on my druid and it was a total pain in the ass. If I had to do it on 5 toons forget it. I was bored to tears killing mobs in nagrand. Now your 375 x 5 which had to take forever. Thats a mega load of leather. Now you get to grind a massive amount of primals so you can make your gear. And to make matters worse one of the mobs you have to grind for primals is immune to your damage. So you end up having to grind other primals to sell in order to buy primals from the mobs that are immune. Ok now add on all the primal nethers you need. I dont think you are taking in consideration of the amount of mats you need to gear a group of 5 shaman with that leather. If you wanted to gear 5 shaman with the LW chest you need 80 primal mana and air. Thats about 4800g in primals on my server. 80 of them you cant even farm due to immune. I am just trying to save the guy some time. The pvp gear is great and you really only grind it 1 time because its x5. If you do Lw to 375 on 5 toons and then have to get all these mats you will be wasting a ton of gold and time.

Its my 2cents.. If you want to invest that much money and time in gear thats going to be replaced go for it. I would rather get the free honor gear and save all that money for the xpac. But thats my opinion.
Do what makes you happy.

P.S. This thread needs more cowbell.

[Stabface]

Mats for Hurricane Boots + Netherstrike set with approximate gold costs on my server:
22x Heavy Knothide Leather (5g)
72x Nether Dragonscales (3g)
6x Wind Scales (7g)
36x Primal Mana (20g)
36x Primal Air (25g)
10x Primal Water (25g)
5x Primal Nethers (50g)
Total cost = 24-2500g, or about 1 day /played grinding gold?


To get PvP items in those slots: 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS. To get it in 24 hours /played you need 2300 honor and 5.4 marks per hour.

[Jaese]

Mats for Hurricane Boots + Netherstrike set with approximate gold costs on my server:
22x Heavy Knothide Leather (5g)
72x Nether Dragonscales (3g)
6x Wind Scales (7g)
36x Primal Mana (20g)
36x Primal Air (25g)
10x Primal Water (25g)
5x Primal Nethers (50g)
Total cost = 24-2500g, or about 1 day /played grinding gold?


To get PvP items in those slots: 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS. To get it in 24 hours /played you need 2300 honor and 5.4 marks per hour.

This is not viable if you run a 5-shaman DPS team, especially if you're neurotic like me and can't stand having one char having different gear. So multiply those gold costs by 5 and add in the time/money to train LW up to 375 and the PvP welfare epics become the better idea.

So farm up 12500g+++ or 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS (because everyone gets the same amount every BG).

1 shaman, sure. 5 shamans, fuck no.

[pinotnoir]

Mats for Hurricane Boots + Netherstrike set with approximate gold costs on my server:
22x Heavy Knothide Leather (5g)
72x Nether Dragonscales (3g)
6x Wind Scales (7g)
36x Primal Mana (20g)
36x Primal Air (25g)
10x Primal Water (25g)
5x Primal Nethers (50g)
Total cost = 24-2500g, or about 1 day /played grinding gold?


To get PvP items in those slots: 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS. To get it in 24 hours /played you need 2300 honor and 5.4 marks per hour.

Thats a bunch of gold and your forgetting the time and cost to get LW to 375 on the entire group. Grinding 75k honor doesnt take that long. You kill 2 birds with one stone.. Pvp gear and heroic gear all in one package. Plus you get to save your gold for xpac. Spend less time getting geared up and more time doing heroics and such with your shiney new gear. I have watched guys take their team and farm honor then shortly turn around and blow through every instance heroic on mag. It's the most effecient way to do it. There are 3 guys in The Zerg that walk through heroics after they pvp geared their shaman. Lawl, Azq and Res. Azq geared up so fast it wasnt even funny. I see him one day and the next he has all pvp gear and dragons. He is crazy. I made the mistake of only making 3 shaman. Well my other two are 69 now so I plan on joining the fellas in The Zerg with their uber pvp/heroic gear and bank accounts.