Creative use of mechanic, or exploit

[Vyndree]

The only thing unintended with zolo is how well it worked.

I.e. the leveling rate?

I.e. leveling faster than normal boosting?

I.e. leveling faster than other players are able?

I.e. gaining a leveling rate advantage over other players?

Aren't they giving us a clear signal that leveling at that rate is something that they don't intend to be possible anymore? I mean, they've nerfed both Athene methods (which, admittedly takes a bit of effort) and the Zolo method (which, as I understand, takes little effort).


The gap of uncertainty isn't that difficult to see. From what I understand, you could get 100k+ exp per hour from Zolo, whereas normal questing could only net 20k. If it weren't "beneficial" in some way to do Zolo over questing, or normal boosting, or grinding.... why is everyone all up in arms now that it's nerfed? Because you could "nearly afk" and get XP? Don't you think there's a problem when you can net more than 4x the normal questing rate of XP with little to no effort involved?

That's not an exploit?

[Greythan]

How can you even argue this keeping a straight face?

Zolo was a leveling EXPLOIT. If you searched for it on google, how would you find it? (Yes, searching for exploit).

What's the difference between exploit and creative use of game mechanics? Impact.

If I found a "Creative use of game mechanics" way to duplicate items in my bag, do you think I'd get banned? @#$@ yes I would. Doesn't even cross my mind.

Alot of exploits are considered "non-bannable" however are NOT DISCUSSED (infact intentionally removed from posts on forums to hide it), as blizzard does the following:

1) How big of an impact is it, does it effect visual apperance, or large effects on the economy?
2) How many people are doing it? Will I ban 10% of my player base if I start actioning on it?

For Zolo, obviously (2) was big enough to say "Hey it isn't actionable right now, but lets not share this info k?", until they could get it fixed.

If (1) was big enough where you had some far reaching impacts, you could guarentee that bans would be inc.
Remember the "Insert way for a shaman to kill same faction people here" exploit? Banable. (Because it impacted many people)

Finding "creative use of game mechanics" to do ANYTHING in this game is risky. You know what blizzard intends or doesn't, it's not freaking hard to figure it out. Don't play stupid (Wuut you mean they didn't want me to level at the rate of GOD when I move this npc to this one and start aoeing?). You just make yourself look ignorant.

Baloney.

PL'ing lowbies with a Protection Pally is an exploit? Oh, you mean just doing it with Zolo is an exploit. But, doing it in SM or any other instance to gain geometric increases in xp/hour versus other methods is okay?

This is hardly a cut and dried case of an "exploit". If it was, the entire ability for AE boosting would be engineered out of the game.

Now, was the Zolo thing more extreme than SM or some other traditional AE boosting tactic? Sure. But its not worlds apart as the "you're a moron if you don't see this to be an exploit" crew is making it out to be.

[Suvega]

1) leveling 100k xp an hour, when normal quests give 10k, is an exploit. Come on, stop sounding dumb.

2) The difference between exploits and MB is Blizzard's stance. Blizzard comes out openly and defends multiboxing. Blizzard delete's posts on exploits.


Stop trying to defend shady activity, you're just making yourself either look Naive or Ignorant.

[Suvega]

How can you even argue this keeping a straight face?

Zolo was a leveling EXPLOIT. If you searched for it on google, how would you find it? (Yes, searching for exploit).

What's the difference between exploit and creative use of game mechanics? Impact.

If I found a "Creative use of game mechanics" way to duplicate items in my bag, do you think I'd get banned? @#$@ yes I would. Doesn't even cross my mind.

Alot of exploits are considered "non-bannable" however are NOT DISCUSSED (infact intentionally removed from posts on forums to hide it), as blizzard does the following:

1) How big of an impact is it, does it effect visual apperance, or large effects on the economy?
2) How many people are doing it? Will I ban 10% of my player base if I start actioning on it?

For Zolo, obviously (2) was big enough to say "Hey it isn't actionable right now, but lets not share this info k?", until they could get it fixed.

If (1) was big enough where you had some far reaching impacts, you could guarentee that bans would be inc.
Remember the "Insert way for a shaman to kill same faction people here" exploit? Banable. (Because it impacted many people)

Finding "creative use of game mechanics" to do ANYTHING in this game is risky. You know what blizzard intends or doesn't, it's not freaking hard to figure it out. Don't play stupid (Wuut you mean they didn't want me to level at the rate of GOD when I move this npc to this one and start aoeing?). You just make yourself look ignorant.

Baloney.

PL'ing lowbies with a Protection Pally is an exploit? Oh, you mean just doing it with Zolo is an exploit. But, doing it in SM or any other instance to gain geometric increases in xp/hour versus other methods is okay?

This is hardly a cut and dried case of an "exploit". If it was, the entire ability for AE boosting would be engineered out of the game.

Now, was the Zolo thing more extreme than SM or some other traditional AE boosting tactic? Sure. But its not worlds apart as the "you're a moron if you don't see this to be an exploit" crew is making it out to be.

One involves a friend using his paladin to help you kill thigns in an instance.

One involves standing still after kiteing a mob to the other side of the instance, and then /afking while mobs spawn and get killed over and over again indefinetly.

One has a instance cap per hour, one you can go afk?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY NOT SEEING A DIFFERENCE?!? lol.

[Greythan]

4x the normal questing rate of XP

So what multiplier of "normal questing rate" is defined as non-exploitive? That's the point. If another spot pops up that allows me to AE mobs at a geometric rate using standard game mechanics, I'll do it. I'm very confident I won't get banned either. Now, if Blizzard comes out and states that AE boosting is an exploit that's another story. They haven't done that.

[Greythan]

One involves a friend using his paladin to help you kill thigns in an instance.

One involves standing still after kiteing a mob to the other side of the instance, and then /afking while mobs spawn and get killed over and over again indefinetly.

One has a instance cap per hour, one you can go afk?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY NOT SEEING A DIFFERENCE?!? lol.

First, for a multi-boxer there is never a friend involved unless you choose to get one. No differentiator there.

Second, standing still isn't much different than rounding up SM Cath and "standing still" watching them die on the Pally's AE/Melee effects. There's next to no risk to the Pally at all in either case. Also, very little effort involved.

Instance caps have nothing to do with the original argument which is the exploit is based on gaining extreme exp rates over "traditional" questing/leveling tactics.

Are you seriously no seeing the similarities here? lol

[Suvega]

One involves a friend using his paladin to help you kill thigns in an instance.

One involves standing still after kiteing a mob to the other side of the instance, and then /afking while mobs spawn and get killed over and over again indefinetly.

One has a instance cap per hour, one you can go afk?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY NOT SEEING A DIFFERENCE?!? lol.

First, for a multi-boxer there is never a friend involved unless you choose to get one. No differentiator there.

Second, standing still isn't much different than rounding up SM Cath and "standing still" watching them die on the Pally's AE/Melee effects. There's next to no risk to the Pally at all in either case. Also, very little effort involved.

Instance caps have nothing to do with the original argument which is the exploit is based on gaining extreme exp rates over "traditional" questing/leveling tactics.

Are you seriously no seeing the similarities here? lol

God this is getting great. I'll keep going to watch you pull at strings more.
Guess what, instance caps limit how much you can clear the instance per hour. It's a determined cap on how much xp you can get per hour. If you have EVER tried boosting via SM, you'd DEF know that instance caps are a pain in the ass. Not to mention blizzard already nerfs the xp earned for a low level character when a 70 touches the mob you kill. The combination of instance cap + the XP is a pretty good cap on the xp/hr you can get.




However methods like zolo involve literally some interesting methods to get your spawns. Instead of I dunno, zoneing into an instance, you move a bunch of mobs around, and find an INFINTE MOB SPAWN THAT GIVES XP. Sounds legit AMIRIGHT?!?
I guess I find it obvious that if it involves dragging mobs across the map, or evading mobs, or doing something other then just @#$@ KILLING SOMETHING, it's probably ain't intended now is it?

I'm not saying you'll get banned, I'm just saying it's not wise if you value your accounts. I'm pretty sure anyone reading this thread realizes that lookign for "interesting ways to exploit the game to get a much bigger return on investment" realizes that their is an inherent risk.

For people who are "Exploit Challenged" lets say this. If you think your method involves no risk of being banned, post it on the customser service forums. If it lives, go ahead. If it burns, your accounts will follow in a matter of time. Even if they "allowed" zolo, they gave a very clear message that it wasn't supported. Pretty clear hint amiright?

For your next argument, I forsee you explaining how blizzard intended for us to find these "secret" leveling methods, and that they will encourage us to find more interesting ways to level faster....

[Kayley]

God this is getting great. I'll keep going to watch you pull at strings more.
Guess what, instance caps limit how much you can clear the instance per hour. It's a determined cap on how much xp you can get per hour. If you have EVER tried boosting via SM, you'd DEF know that instance caps are a pain in the ass. Not to mention blizzard already nerfs the xp earned for a low level character when a 70 touches the mob you kill. The combination of instance cap + the XP is a pretty good cap on the xp/hr you can get.

However methods like zolo involve literally some interesting methods to get your spawns. Instead of I dunno, zoneing into an instance, you move a bunch of mobs around, and find an INFINTE MOB SPAWN THAT GIVES XP. Sounds legit AMIRIGHT?!?
I guess I find it obvious that if it involves dragging mobs across the map, or evading mobs, or doing something other then just @#$@ KILLING SOMETHING, it's probably ain't intended now is it?

Instance cap was to stop the DM farmers. It doesn't effect instance boosting in SM at all. Just add SM:Armory to your Cath runs and you are fine - But I digress.

The exploit wasn't the way of doing it, dragging mini-bosses together is fine. Fighting them both together is fine (evading, terrain exploiting isn't) but the end result (100k-250K+ while 'nearly afk') was considered an exploit. You aren't reading what people are saying, you are just OMGMUSTPOAST.. so chill, read, then post people so far have just argued your points.

[Kayley]

Correct. The exploit wasn't the way it was done -- it was the end results achieved (XP).

If you were to find a new way to get the same XP out of Zolo, as was done pre-patch, that would be the exploit. I'm not saying killing (or grinding) Zolo was the exploit -- but the massive amount of XP gained for the minor amount of effort (I hear many people claiming the important part to Zolo is jumping often so that your other characters don't go AFK). Don't pick on semantics -- you know I've never had a problem with Zolo pre-nerf, but just post-nerf the same result should not be achievable without expecting retribution from blizzard. Nobody did Zolo in that fashion "just because I wanted to see the encounter". They did it because of the massive amount of XP gained.

The exploit of Zolo was the advantage of XP per hour per effort. Not the encounter itself.

Missed that ^_^ This is pretty much it :P (from my POV)

[Suvega]

Correct. The exploit wasn't the way it was done -- it was the end results achieved (XP).

If you were to find a new way to get the same XP out of Zolo, as was done pre-patch, that would be the exploit. I'm not saying killing (or grinding) Zolo was the exploit -- but the massive amount of XP gained for the minor amount of effort (I hear many people claiming the important part to Zolo is jumping often so that your other characters don't go AFK). Don't pick on semantics -- you know I've never had a problem with Zolo pre-nerf, but just post-nerf the same result should not be achievable without expecting retribution from blizzard. Nobody did Zolo in that fashion "just because I wanted to see the encounter". They did it because of the massive amount of XP gained.

The exploit of Zolo was the advantage of XP per hour per effort. Not the encounter itself.

Missed that ^_^ This is pretty much it :P (from my POV)

My point basically is, everyone who was doing it, knew it wasn't legitimte. They knew it was going to be hotfixed, just a matter of time. The fact that they chose to hotfix over ban is just their views now, not in the future. Finding interesting tactics to get an upperhand in the game (protip: thats the defintion of exploit), is not a recommended hobby when wanting to keep your account. People who try to "convince" us that it was legitimate, or that they never thought it was going to be fixed, are either living in a fantasy world, or are trying to convince themselves