Just got one...but have seen talk here and elsewhere that the bann happy Blizzard does not like these. I have the software that came with it installed, but do not use it for macros...will Blizz be deeply offended?
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Just got one...but have seen talk here and elsewhere that the bann happy Blizzard does not like these. I have the software that came with it installed, but do not use it for macros...will Blizz be deeply offended?
I've never heard of a Logitech G15 being against Blizz's policies or rules?? I love the thing and would never use anything else.
The keyboard and software is not banned, but it's problematic - the keyboard itself, used without the software, seems to be just fine, and Blizzard gives a thumbs up. The software is a grey area, even if you don't use the macros I suspect there's something that triggers Warden, the guys who write the botting software may use something similar, dunno.
I would say, use the keyboard without the software, and you should be fine, but if you use the software, be prepared to possibly be banned, and having to work through the issues with Account Administration. Personally, I would de-install it and forget about it.
Also, make sure your accounts are in order, and you own them all, if you get a false positive from the software, you can still be permabanned if they discover issues with your accounts and who owns them.
Using the G15 like a normal keyboard and using it's extra keys to bind to additional keybindings is fine.
Blizzard's documented problem with the G15 is when you start using "timers" or adding pauses in macros or the auto-fire mechanism. This is where you cross the line into automation according to blizzard's definition. For example, you couldn't make a macro for one press of a button that fires a frost bolt, waits a second for the global cooldown and then fires a fireball. THIS IS ILLEGAL. One keypress must equal one action.
It's ok to bind one key to Shit+<whatever> or Alt+Shit+<whatever> to get creative keybindings but outside of that, you're in bannable territory.
the problem they have with it are delays. theoretically, you could use it to introduce a delay and your timer-based powers would auto-cast.. and that would be automation. this is strictly off-limits
there is another item that is gray area... and that would be out-of-game macros. basically, hitting 1 key and a series of keys go into the wow window as if you typed them very fast. i say it's gray area because they push 1 key hit == 1 key per window. this would break that mindset...
BUT... blizzard also puts out this:
this is basically like the G15.. but cheaper and has no delays. BUT, it does allow you to hit a single button and an out-of-game macro (one-touch macro) will be pushed to the active wow windowQuote:
World of Warcraft®: Burning Crusade® ZBoard™ Keyset ($ 19.99)
http://www.blizzard.com/store/_image...pe=3&loc=en-US
The new Zboard keyset for World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade is now available. The new keyset includes many of its predecessor's cool and useful features, such as labeled keys and one-touch macros for frequent commands like /roll, /duel, /invite and /follow
if anyone has any info on this, i would love to hear it
I've been using the original G15 for over a year with no issues, and I use the software. However, I *only* use the G1-G18 keys for a shortcut for commands such as SHIFT+ALT+ (1-9), and SHIFT+ALT+CTRL(1-9), so nothing is automated.
I , too, use the G15 software for mainly /follow comands, easy mount access, and other various 1 button touch actions but.... I use it for formations as well which do include a pause here or there. But I do not, and never will, use it for automation attacks. I never thought that could get me banned. Now I'm curious...
I specifically used a press-duration key for formations so absolutely nothing is automated. The longer I hold the key, the further the groups spread. I'm not willing to risk having a pause in a formation key being seen by Blizzard as automation.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Deshu',index.php?page=Thread&postID=85877#post858 77
What do you mean by this?Quote:
Originally Posted by '-silencer-',index.php?page=Thread&postID=85925#post85925
If you mean you are using the "repeat while held down" option in the G15 macro option then this is considered automation by blizzard. If you mean you use your formations through keybinding the regular movement keys that would auto-repeat under regular WoW useage then you're fine.
Automation out of combat is still allowed... emotes aren't really a combat thing. -- You can still make addons that do all sorts of automation so long as they're only usable out of combat lockdown. Basically anything you could do with the pre 2.0 system. Which still makes the "you have to press a key for every action" rule apply.
Also, anything you can do in a macro can be automated... so you can use software to type out emotes for you.
Personally, I stopped running Autohotkey and downloaded the software to my joysticks/saitek and got Octopus (I was just using AHK) -- even though my joystick software still lets me do delayed actions (that I don't use) -- As AHK is just too big of a gray area I think.
The general rule for any 3rd party software OR hardware is...
If it utilizes any kinds of DELAYs, it is considered automation. One keypress = one action (per account).
Taking a look at our GM Conversations wiki section on delays and timers in out of game macros should help clear this up, but if for any reason you are still confused your best bet would be to start a thread on the official Customer Service forums and get confirmation from Blizzard themselves.
Vyndree... check the blizzard keyboard i linked in #5Quote:
One keypress = one action
G15 (no macros used) ok?
are you saying... the line isn't one key == one key per wow... but one key == one action per wow?
( any links to this info, oh goddess of the reference link? :D )
No, I'm referring to an AutoHotKey method. I don't use the G15 for anything other than keypresses and the G-keys to substitute for Alt+Shift+Ctrl+(1-9).Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Knytestorme',index.php?page=Thread&postID=85927#p ost85927
Awhile ago, there was a discussion about how to make formations using AutoHotKey, and one of the original threads mentioned having a key (F1 is my formation key) bound so that 1 keypress will send a signal to all WoW instances to "KeyDown, hold for 4 seconds, then KeyUp." The action bound to F1 on the alts depends on which direction you want that alt to move. Alt 1, move forward. Alt 2, move left, etc. However, this is a form of automation since it uses a delay, even though it's minor. I didn't want to take that risk, so my F1 key will now send a KeyDown action to all WoW instances, but not send a KeyUp action until I release the key. This method has no delay, and that's how I want it to work anyway. I like being able to choose my formation spread distance by how long I hold it down, and it uses no automation.
EDIT #2: And here is the ORIGINAL "one keypress = one action" mantra that eventually added "per account in the case of multiboxing".... I'm getting closer...Quote:
Originally Posted by keyclone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=85941#post8 5941]are you saying... the line isn't one key == one key per wow... but one key == one action per wow?
( any links to this info, oh goddess of the reference link? ) [/quote]
This is the mantra they've been spouting on the customer service forums. I'll see if I can get you a link, since this is something I didn't bookmark. ;)
Basically it's "one key = one action per WoW account" -- because when you press "w" on a physical keyboard it's ok for one char to cast fireball, one to cast heal, one to cast shadowbolt, and one to cast sunder. As long as only one GCD action is made on each account it's all good. :)
Anyway, I'll search for linkage. BRB. ;)
EDIT: No beans so far, but I did find this which is inline with teh current discussion:
[url]http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6440993299&pageNo=1&sid=1#4[/url]
[quote='GM Malkorix
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...geNo=1&sid=1#8
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM Malkorix
EDIT #3:
Doh! It was in MY OWN THREAD!!!
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&pageNo=17#334
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM Belfaire
Vyn, I think his use is valid for the toggling of the movement on the 4th character. Of course it'd be nice to have a blue post comment on this exact use of 'key toggling.'
There's still only 1 action per key press, it's just that the key press is toggled to an alternating movement command each time. It's almost identical to a movement-oriented version of /castsequence, but has even less of an effect on "fair gameplay".
Using a G15 to toggle a keybind:
Press and hold "key x", and alt #1 strafes left, alt #2 strafes right, and alt #3 moves back. Release and they stop moving.
Press and hold "key x" again, and alt #1 strafes left, alt #2 strafes right, and alt #3 moves forward. Release and they stop moving.
I'd ask for a blue post in the Blizzard forums about those last three lines, and see if they feel it's against the rules.
As has been mentioned, G15 keyboards are fine. Using the multiple-keys-with-delays automation/macro features of it are not. And don't be too smart by half and think that Blizzard won't be able to detect those macros. ;)
this is basically like the G15.. but cheaper and has no delays. BUT, it does allow you to hit a single button and an out-of-game macro (one-touch macro) will be pushed to the active wow windowQuote:
Originally Posted by keyclone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=85864#post8 5864]the problem they have with it are delays. theoretically, you could use it to introduce a delay and your timer-based powers would auto-cast.. and that would be automation. this is strictly off-limits
there is another item that is gray area... and that would be out-of-game macros. basically, hitting 1 key and a series of keys go into the wow window as if you typed them very fast. i say it's gray area because they push 1 key hit == 1 key per window. this would break that mindset...
BUT... blizzard also puts out this:
[quote][url='http://www.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=110000103
if anyone has any info on this, i would love to hear it[/quote]
Oh wow.... so then setting up my keyboard to handle (I would imagine to be safe) SIMPLE macros is potentially validated by the fact that blizzard itself is selling an item capable of such acts?
The notion that 1 key must = 1 action (and not 1 keypress) means you could set up a G15 to send in /follow or /invite or /roll just like the WoW keyboard. In fact, the GM that said he uses the G11 pretty much validates that. He said you can create out of game macros as long as you can do the same thing in game and the keyboard macros act as extra macro slots.
EDIT:
Here is the quote, it's also in the wiki
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1&pageNo=2#27Quote:
"I use a G11 myself. Just don't use the macro keys to do anything a normal wow macro could not do in a single press. Think of them as extra storage for normal macros, and you're fine. "
Malkatorix, Blizzard Poster
This is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Talamarr',index.php?page=Thread&postID=86028#post 86028
Like almost every piece of hardware, the G15 itself is not bannable. Using the G15 in a way that breaks the ToU would be against the rules.
I remember some AFK botters gloating about their "unbannable hardware" -- they'd rig up oscillating fans with sticks to press their keyboard's spacebar and keep them from going afk in a battleground. A keyboard and an oscillating fan are not bannable on their own, but the way they used them was bannable. Make sense? :)
HAHA Rube Goldberg is a botter.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=86036#post8 6036
That cracked me up because its exactly what some of that stuff people put out on youtube looks like, I was amazed at the lengths people will go through to NOT have to play the game they are paying to play ?(Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Talamarr',index.php?page=Thread&postID=86124#post 86124
.
Blizzard worked closely with Logitech on the G15 software. I remember there being the pause/delay option on the Warcraft profile. I believe that pauses/delays are now gone from the warcraft profile in recent releases of the software.
I would not doubt that warden has some kind of handshake with the G15 software now. So those folks that think they will outsmart Blizz are really fooling themselves.