Warriror tank ftw.

Everyone loves Shamans with a Paladin tank there is no doubt about that.

Thing is I think Paladins are so boring to play, mostly just auto swing and a few spells every once in a while. I think the Warrior is the superior tank period. But as a multiboxers we don't have any CC (playing with shamans that is). I'm not saying that a paladin isn't a great choice just that the warrior is a great alternative.

It's all about AoE tanking, Paladins are king at this but they are very vulnerable to various situations, such as silence. As a Warrior there is not a single 5-man encounter that should pose much of a problem, all you need is the right tools.

I use 1 macro for tanking which is a mouse-over tanking button:

Code:

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#showtooltip Devastate
/castrandom [target=mouseover,equipped:Shields,harm,nodead][] Devastate, Revenge, Shield Slam

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as you can see I have not included Heroic Strike in this and that is because it is not spammable. So the Idea is that you use HS on you main target while you use the other spells on the mouse-over target. Warrior tanking made easy. And if you should be unlucky and lose aggro you have a 10 sec taunt (8sec with talents), Challenging Shout, and Mocking Blow, all that combined with Thuderclap and Cleave will make the warrior the superior tank :)

Threat stats you want as a warrior:

-Expertice (humans will get a great boost with Maces or Swords, Orcs with Axes)
-Hit rating
-Shield Block Value and NOT Shield Block Rating (this is more a palandin stat)

Effective Health Theory:

As a warrior you want a HUGE health pool, avoidance is great but stam and armor is much better. So fill up every gem slot with 12/15 stam gems only exception is the meta gem in which you'll put a 18 stam gem :) Enchant everything you can with stam. Cape with armor/defense/dodge this is up to you. Gloves, you should put +10 stam here as well, but if you feel you could use a bit more threat put a +2% threat enchant on you gloves. If you out gear the content you are doing put a SBV on your shield instead of stam.

The reason for the huge health pool is simple, unless you can be uncrushable (102.4% avoidance/mitigation), is that you will get those huge hit and since you have put avoidance gems instead of stam gems you'll die. beside it's cool running around with 17K hp self buffed.


With the Warrior the pulls are easier, (Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer, easy to get and it will last a long long time), make sure to pick up a fast thrown weapon for those fast pulls.

The only downside I can think of is the gearing up (this goes for palandins aswell, worst for them perhaps), it will be a bitch, one solution to this is to grab Blacksmithing, and craft the BoP items. The PvP shield with a shield Spike is a great place to start. After that head to Karazhan and pick up some stuff there.

With a warrior tank you will never be able to slack, you will be buttom smashing constantly, nonstop action!!

If someone with Wiki savvy would please add my macro to the warrior section I'd be a happy man, it's way to empty in the warrior section.

First heal, you have multiple un-CCed mobs rampaging through your party.

Warrior tanks have their place, but they are not strong in AoE tanking. Period. Even when played by a single player who can multitask well...

Pallies have a huge AoE tanking advantage, Druids are significantly worse, but Warriors are so bad at it that it's laughable to even call them a viable alternative.

Thunderclap is enough to keep the aggro of the healer in the beginning of the fight. Start a fight like so: Charge/pull thunderclap, start big heal, while you start DPS and Dev/SS/Revenge, and HS, for all of this you need to spam 1 button (in my case "2" which is my DPS/M-O button), and one button for heal ("3") and HS and Thunderclap on the same button with a modifier ("E" and "Shift-E"). I have yet to lose aggro on the first heal. In Heroics rage generation isn't a problem so you'll be able to use HS a lot, combined with a shield spike it's easy.

Imo, warriors are the best all around tanks.

While 5 boxing though I think the simpler the better and I think this is where the paladin would be better. I'm not saying it can't be done, I don't really have enough experince multiboxing in general and in warriors specifically.....I only got 1 to 50 before I wanted to peel my eyes out.....It just seems alot more work for a warrior to keep multiple mobs on him rather than running wild through my healer and casters than it would for a paladin.

In the multiboxing set of mind, I have tried both my warrior and paladin and I feel that it is easier to attain aggro on 2 mobs with the paladin far easier than the warrior. But on boss fights where theres only one tank and spank mob, I prefer the warrior. I tried both as far as ZF and I chose the paladin. Now, that is not to say that I find questing with the warrior and doing bosses with the warrior far easier; thats why I continued to level both my paladin and warrior to stay at the level with my shamans. My idea is: were already 5 boxing, its not like we cant sub in a warrior or paladin at any time without having to explain to the group why ^^.

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Originally Posted by 'Qlimax',index.php?page=Thread&postID=77483#post77 483

...its not like we cant sub in a warrior or paladin at any time without having to explain to the group why ^^.

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The exact reason why I multibox :D No explanations. No complaining. No emojism whatsoever!

The reason why shaman work better with paladins is this:

Paladins benefit from EVERY SINGLE shammy buff. Melee AND spell.

Furthermore, Paladins have this uber buff known as Blessing of Salvation. If you're fine on threat, they've got this other buff called Blessing of Wisdom. If someone pulls major aggro anyway, there's a BoP.
Warriors don't buff elemental/resto shaman except for Commanding Shout.


The synergy is just so much better between pallies and shammies. I started out with a warrior tank and switched to my pally for a reason. Not saying that pallies are better tanks -- warriors certainly have their niche and much better avoidance for boss fights. Warrior single target threat is far superior. I'm not saying that warrior tanks won't work either. It's just you can't just focus on the tanking alone without also taking into account the buffs shammies bring to pallies and the buffs pallies bring to shammies. And that's where that group composition really shines, honestly.

if only horde had another race for Pali then Blood Elf...

The synergy is just so much better between pallies and shammies. I started out with a warrior tank and switched to my pally for a reason. Not saying that pallies are better tanks -- warriors certainly have their niche and much better avoidance for boss fights. Warrior single target threat is far superior. I'm not saying that warrior tanks won't work either. It's just you can't just focus on the tanking alone without also taking into account the buffs shammies bring to pallies and the buffs pallies bring to shammies. And that's where that group composition really shines, honestly.[/quote]

I'm too drunk to respond atm see ya tomorrow.

Turenn, I very much appreciate that you are trying to expand our horizons here. I have a very well geared warrior and pally and I'd love to be able to use the warrior for heroics in addition to the pally.

Knowing a bit about how you macro your warrior is very helpful, but the sheer number of abilities you have to use is overwhelming to me at this point.

A quick inventory:

For Pallies I need Consecrate and Holy Shield as spammables during combat, Avenger's Shield to pull, and maybe the ranged taunt (Righteous Defense) if things go badly.

For Warriors it seems much more complex - Shoot/Throw or Charge to pull (and either only generates aggro on one mob), Heroic Strike, Revenge, Shield Slam (maybe all three of these are on one button as you said), Taunt (which isn't idiot-proof like the Pally taunt in that you'll be "charged for it" and it goes on cooldown even if you already have aggro from the mob AND warrior taunt isn't ranged), Thunder Clap, Cleave, and Challenging Shout and/or Mocking Blow if things go badly. All these are from your original post, but I would also think Shield Block would be crucial since that's the only way warriors will get close to uncrushable. To begin the fight you probably need your rage-generation ability (Bloodlust, I think) to generate some rage, too.

So 4 abilities in 4 keys for a pally, 11 abilities in 8 keys and one mouse-over for a warrior (assuming only one of the three pull methods are used regularly and that the mouse-over covers three abilities).

Each of those keys is extremely precious as they are the only way to tell my alts what they need to be doing the whole time.

I am very impressed that you are able to keep all this going on your warrior - that's very cool. But I guess at this point (having tried both) I'm either just not skilled enough or don't understand the full set-up of a warrior tank to use them effectively.

I'd love to hear more.

Warriors are fine with a high CC group, such as 2x mage + warlock + Priest (2 poly, seduce + fear + banish, shackles), or Hunter, Mage, Warlock + Priest (Ice trap + Feign Death, poly, fear + seduce + banish, shackle).
In these cases, they can do their job as excellent 1 or 2 mob tanks. However, the muster of skill required to manage these setups is quite high.

Shaman have almost zero CC ability, and while they may be able to tank 1 elite while the warrior deals with whatever he's got agro on, this will fail horribly in Heroics.

I leveled a druid up with my shaman, and while the druid is VERY good tanking up to 3 mobs (better then an equally geared paladin imo, as Druids have higher damage mitigation), it becomes more and more difficult as you attempt instances with larger-then-3-pulls.

The only issue at that point, regarding Heroics, is gearing up your paladin for them. This requires doing the 70-instances on normal repeatedly until you have suitable gear for your paladin.

So, as from my experiences, Warriors are suitable for high CC groups, Druids are good to reach 70, with 4 shaman, as a tank, but are difficult in Heroics, Paladin are suitable for a 4x shaman group as tanks for all PvE occasions.

Also, there are many threads describing this. Please use the Search function next time.

I actually find the warrior superior to a pala tank.
But then again, i dont run the holy trinity setup, i have all 4 shammies elemental.
And 1LHW in aoe aggro is nothing, the warrior has no problem keeping the mobs on him.
With a descently geared warrior 6mob heroic pulls is no problem.
Thunderclap might only hit 4, but 1 is dead befor the tank takes damage, and the second is dead before the tank needs heal.
A pally lets me use chain lightning, but pally tanks in general take more damage, wich in turn lowers my dps.
A warrior also has a few "oh shit buttons" wich helps too.
Solo target threat is also supperior in my experience.

As for a more diplomatic aproach: The tank you are used to, is the best tank anyhow ;)

I played both Prot Warrior and Prot Paladin.

For me, the only drawback a Paladin have is getting gear to uncrushable level (for raids)--but not needed for heroics.

The "silence" argument is valid, but that does not inhibits tanking much in events like Maiden in KZ.

The "fear" was a huge factor before but that's been addressed with a few tools such as fear wards, tremor totems, and even pvp trinkets.

For multi-boxing, the Paladin is "less" button mashing which works well using those precious seconds to button mash for the shamans.

Holy Shield is 10 second interval, while Shield Block is 6 seconds.

Passive threat on Paladin vs a Warriors active sunders.
At most, a warrior can actively maintain high threat using mouseover sunders on 3 targets.
A paladin can front load threat to 3 mobs on the pull, and grab more agro on more adds using consecration.
The prime test field for this is the 7 mob pull in Shattered Halls.

A Paladin tank brings more "passive" tanking abilities that helps multi-boxing in multi-mob pulls.

A warrior has its own strengths, especially in leading edge content where tank and spank one boss. The warrior can muster more mitigation and "buy time" for the raid to learn the encounter. That raid environment differs so much than a 5-box setup.

Like Sanctume said, being uncruchable is not an issue in Heroics, it's not even on the table, all you really need is 485 (490 against level 73 mobs) defense to be uncrittable. And while we are on the subject being uncrushable is impossible, due to various reason, mostly because of poor player reaction and server lag. I never use shield block, at the level of gear I have I don't need to use it, gief rage!.

With tools like the shield spike and the sporregar shield a warrior can hold aggro on 7 mobs, all it takes is pratice. and for the record that a warrior tank is crap without CC is just plain bullshit :) I hate to use CC while I tank in pugs etc, with CC the run takes so much longer, my way, pull>dps>next pull and so on.

My post was never about the fact that warriors are better tanks for a Multiboxer, I'm leveling a paladin atm. My point was that while the paladin are great tanks I think that warriors and druids are viable alternatives.

So dust of your warriors and give it a try, loads of action :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=78018#pos t78018

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Turenn',index.php?page=Thread&postID=78003#post78 003

Like Sanctume said, being uncruchable is not an issue in Heroics, it's not even on the table, all you really need is 485 (490 against level 73 mobs) defense to be uncrittable. And while we are on the subject being uncrushable is impossible, due to various reason, mostly because of poor player reaction and server lag. I never use shield block, at the level of gear I have I don't need to use it, gief rage!.

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This makes me giggle....

When my Paladin hit 70, I had 502 Defense. I asn't activelly grinding for tanking gear, I just picked up this and that, surfed the AH a little, and put together gear as it "made sense". After some instance grinding, I'm at like 520 defense. I was at 530, and backed it off for some more mana.

Anyone who says its hard to gera a Paladin up is nuts. I did it accidentally.

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Getting 490 defense isn't hard, but if you want those huge health pool it's going to take a bit more effort. 490+ Defense=Uncritable, NOT uncrushable.

Quote:

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Sorry, I forgot to add that I was at like 11k health unbufffed too, which is enough to start heroics. So when I dinged 70, I was ready to jumped into Heroics. Granted, my healer was already geared, but the point still remains.

Getting a paladin tank geared for heroics is easy.

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Actually several things happened to make casual heroics "easier":

Paladin got extra 10% stam talent from a patch, it became easier to break 10k hp unbuffed without putting all +12 stam gems.

Also, blue gems became easier and cheaper to come by from the dailys.

Most of all, heroic was tweaked down hard. There were trash mobs there that can one shot tanks, even harder than boss mobs.

Like I said, there's a lot of difference form heroic than raid.

So I would say it's harder for a paladin to reach "uncrushable" compared to a warrior. The difference is Holy shield +% block compared to a Warrior's Shield Block.

Shield Block
10 Rage
Instant 5 sec cooldown
Requires Shields
Requires Defensive Stance
Increases chance to block by 75% for 5 sec, but will only block 1 attack.

Improved Shield Block Rank 1
Allows your Shield Block ability to block an additional attack and increases the duration by 1 second.

Holy Shield Rank 4
280 Mana
Instant cast 10 sec cooldown
Requires Shields
Increases chance to block by 30% for 10 sec and deals 155 Holy damage for each attack blocked while active. Damage caused by Holy Shield causes 35% additional threat. Each block expends a charge. 4 charges.

Improved Holy Shield Rank 2
Increases damage caused by your Holy Shield by 20% and increases the number of charges of your Holy Shield by 4.

Just look at that.
A warrior have 75% already for 6 second.
A paladin only gets 30% for 10 seconds. A paladin needs to cover 45% more mitigation to reach "uncrushable"
Sure there is Redoubt, but that's random and raider don't like huge random in their tank's survival.
The only +block to holy shield is a Libram obtained through Badge of Justice.

Whatever-class-you -are-most-comfy-with FTW!

Having played a warrior tank from MC back in vanilla WoW to T5 instances and now playing a tankadin in T6 instances, I think I am qualified to chime in here.
Armory links: Ivl Warrior Stephanius Paladin

For single character play in raids or 5mans it does not really matter what class your tank is. There are encounters where the one or other class has an advantage, but any discussion which class universally is 'the best' is utterly pointless.

Any competent warrior can multi-target tank, but there are limits to the amount of mobs and the threat maintained per mob. In a multi-mob pull, the warrior has to rely on DPS going for the kill target so that minimum threat on the remaining mobs is sufficient because only healing threat needs to be overcome. A warrior also has more options to use in most situations. The big problem is using the right one in the right moment and not fumbling with your buttons.

A tankadin's threat output is mostly reflective. Upon getting initial aggro, there is no per-target maintainance of threat needed. This scales indefinitely. It does not matter if it's 4 mobs or 40, besides the damage input. This is highly relevant when you want to AoE nuke groups. When using my paladin tank in multiboxing, I usually case two salvos to drop the priority kill target and then nuke the rest down using my warlocks seed of corruption. I usually use two warlocks and one mage as dps, which makes this work quite nicely. Nuking their heart's out, the warlocks do not draw aggro. Ever.

The great thing about the reflective threat on unlimited amounts of targets is that it requires only an intelligent pull and then relatively low maintainance compared with the frantic target switching and button mashing of the warrior. This is rather a question of what you prefer when playing solo, but when multiboxing and playing the whole holy trinity yourself, any cut-down in actions per minute is extremely helpful.