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Since someone brought up that guild leaders can be assholes... i was sitting here pondering.. whats the worst dealing that someone has had in their own guild? From being fucked outa loot for a officer that doesn't really need it... to just being shit on totally.. everyone has a bad experience... i would like to hear some if people wanna post em here:)
I was a hardcore raider Pre-BC, we raided 5 nights a week and i had 100% attendance from first the attempt at ZG to the first drake kill in BWL (ya 5 days a week for months and months 100% attendance = hardcore). In all these months of 100% attendance i was the top seed holy priest for attendance and performance. I was however on the list to go shadow.
To make a long story short i got 0 holy drops in 11 months of 5 day a week raiding that weren't full passes from the 8 other priests. I was 6th to get benediction and our first priest hit full tier 1 before i got my first peice. never really minded because i continued to keep up with performance even with horrbile gear and i was on the list to go shadow anyway. (we never ever had a shadow priest) Well about the time we started BWL i got them to agree to let me start rolling on shadow gear. Well the first peice drops off a first kill in BWL, drake shadow gloves i think. Well they wanted to give them to a lock and not let me roll, i said to hell with that i get to roll and they finally agreed thinking the lock could just outbid my dkp. WRONG! guess what not getting gear for 11 months means, i had more DKP then the next 4 highest people combined so i bid 1 more dkp then she had. After much deliberation they decided to let her bid the DKP she WOULD earn for the rest of the night and she won the gloves. Bidding DKP you had yet to earn had not been allowed even once before this in our guild. I proceeded to quit WOW for a year. That guild never did have a priest raid as shadow.
Edit: i fail at making long stories short!
wow genocyde, sorry to hear that, it is almost painful to read... it reminds me of my own experiences and why my prot war and holy priest left their guild and raiding altogether... thank god for 5 boxing... being called a bot and hacker and everything else beats guild politics ten times over...
One raiding guild I was in a long time ago annoyed the shit out of me. I had perfect attendence every raid, stayed till the end and never left early. But since I was relatively quiet, I basically didn't exist and would have to beg for invites to raids. Whereas the loud mouths in Vent and Guild chat would instantly get invites, even though they were total douche bags and couldn't play their class for shit, or were always late.
Only the successful ones are assholes. The nice ones don't run guilds for long.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Icetech',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69701#post6 9701
Some warrior ninjaed that axe that drops in MC, can't remember the name.
That's complete horse crap. You're way better off being out of that guild.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'genocyde',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69746#post 69746
That's not even remotely true. The sucessful guild leaders are the ones who make solid, well thought out, fair guild rules in the beginning, a solid officer structure not based on favorism, and are firm in keeping within the rules that he started with irregardless if it means their friends and favorite guildes don't get loot over ones they don't like. The push-overs and the ones who constantly change the rules in a way to benefit themselves and their friends are the ones who don't run guilds for long.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'zanthor',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69771#post6 9771
Now that's not to say that the ones who are successful can't be assholes at the same time, or that the one's who aren't successful can't be either. All being an asshole to people does is makes them disloyal. Yea you'll see people continue to raid with an asshole guild leader for as long as it is profitable to that individual but come the first chance to move onto something bigger and better like are like "See ya later dickwad!"
Then of course a few month later when you the guild starts to go sour you'll see these same GL's start complaining that the guild is going to shit cause of all the lousy members being so disloyal and they have no clue why that is :P
That's not even remotely true. The sucessful guild leaders are the ones who make solid, well thought out, fair guild rules in the beginning, a solid officer structure not based on favorism, and are firm in keeping within the rules that he started with irregardless if it means their friends and favorite guildes don't get loot over ones they don't like. The push-overs and the ones who constantly change the rules in a way to benefit themselves and their friends are the ones who don't run guilds for long.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'zanthor',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69771#post6 9771
Now that's not to say that the ones who are successful can't be assholes at the same time, or that the one's who aren't successful can't be either. All being an asshole to people does is makes them disloyal. Yea you'll see people continue to raid with an asshole guild leader for as long as it is profitable to that individual but come the first chance to move onto something bigger and better like are like "See ya later dickwad!"
Then of course a few month later when you the guild starts to go sour you'll see these same GL's start complaining that the guild is going to shit cause of all the lousy members being so disloyal and they have no clue why that is :P[/quote]
All I can speak to is my own experience and the experiences that have been related to me by others, that said I think that guilds are fundamentally flawed. They aways, in the end, are just a mechanism by which some players can leech off of others. I have seen it time and time and time again. "Well Im taking that recipe since Im the guild leader I will make stuff for everyone and we all benefit." YEAH RIGHT!!! Can't tell you all the stories where they refused to make it, stole my mats, or told me they would get a around to it when they weren't so busy (which seems to always end up being the week after NEVER). Same goes for loot. I have seen guild leaders and officers take items that are side-grades or minor minor upgrades and leave the people the show up on time, well prepared, and contributing out in the cold.
I would also suggest that the bigger the guild the more likely this happens. This is one of the many reasons I am very happy that all the "raid" instances will be 10-manable. It seems to me that the smaller the guild more people call bull-crap on each other the less this stuff happens.
Just my opinion
I was a "casual" raider for quite a while when I first started playing. I have a friend that was in the number 3 guild (pre-BC) on our server. I tried for a full year to get in that guild. When my gear and lvl were good enough, I applied and got in. A month later the GM decided his grad school and personal life took priority over WoW and decided to disband the guild. Alot of people were really pissed, but I understood that RL takes priority. My friend was an officer in the guild and let me in on the fact that the guild "bank" (before there was actual guild banks) had about 3000gold and ALOT of blues and purples. Needless to say, noone got anything from the "bank" and the guild tag disappeared.
At first that all sounds fine and pretty normal for the game, but ... me and my friend ended up getting into another guild that alot of the ppl form that guild went to. We were doing really good too. THEN, out of nowhere, the old GM from the previous guild comes back with a NEW toon, epic flyer, AH purples and is instantly put in this guild as an officer.
Me and my friend dropped that guild as did ALOT of ppl from the previous guild. GM's ninja shit too.
Guild leader turned over leadership of the guild to an Officer.
Former guild leader and current officers slowly, over a two week
period emptied 2 1/2 tabs of the 4 tab bank.
Each blaming the other for things going missing.
Last day of the guild the then guildmaster, cleans out the bank of
all remaining items and 3k gold and that we say is all she wrote for
the Katsu Guild Greymane.
fortunately my main was online at the time and persuaded the "GM"
to Instead of kicking everyone from the guild, or handing it over
to a recruit, to make my toon GM so the guild would not be a total loss.
He did so and promptly /gquit
Former guild master, her husband and brother log in see bank cleaned out
Go berserk /gquit and server transfer blaming everything on the "GM" that
just quit..
sooo that is my worst "Dealing with a Guild ever" story
I joined my last raiding guild during their time of need for holy paladins. They had two at the time that would show up to around 1 out of 5 raids per week, which wasn't allowing for progression. I was beyond crappy geared at the time that I joined up, but they wanted me as I was mature and competent: I was in 95% auctionhouse greens the day I was invited to the guild and healed through every boss in SSC but vashj. Needless to say, my output was sub-par, but I didn't die or wipe the raid so I got to stay.
Through the course of the next two months, I improved my gear by leaps and bounds. The guild operated on a loot council system, so the ones who needed the gear the most got it. As I was in greens (Although to be fair I was running instances as fast as my butt could, trying to make up the gap with blue drops) I got lots of loot. I was the first to get 4 pieces of paladin t5, and the first in the guild to get a helmet token drop from Vashj on our first kill. This was before they nerfed the casting speed buff on the 4 piece bonus, so paladins were #1 in line for helmet drops.
After the month it took us to get Vashj and Kaelthas down, we finally got our foot in the BT/Hyjal door, and promptly blasted through the first few bosses in those instances. As most paladins do, I tried to do my best, but found that my performance on the various meters and log parsing tools the guild used was going down fast compared with other healing classes. Especially those damn resto shamans. During BT raids, I started to have trouble even looking busy. I'd throw out flash of light to people that where at 100% health all day long. Our raid leader singled me out (among the other paladins who were having the same kind of problem) and started to become abusive. I was urged by other officers to let it slide off my back, but the insults and accusations continued to fly. I was told on many occasions that I was being pulled along by the guild and afking through raids. My near 100% attendance, my effort put into farming mats and always being at the summoning stone on time instead of asking for summons, the fact that I'd warn my class leader if I couldn't attend a raid (something most other raiders wouldn't bother to do) was completely forgotten. I pressed on, deciding that I could live with one person in the guild being hateful, and I wanted to see the rest of the end-game instances.
It was around the beginning of Hyjal, and before we started getting into BT, when one of the paladins who had poor attendance started to show up again. Apparently he had finished a hard semester at school and was able to get back into the game. I had assumed that my place in the guild wasn't in jeopardy from him, as he had dropped out of the raiding roster. I was wrong. As my raid leader had a vendetta against me (which to this day I have not figured out) I started to have to ask for invites to raids. I heard "We're full on healers" a few times, and was forced to point out "That guy's in the instance with you, and I was on time not late. Why is he in there?" I was allowed in to replace someone, although it was usually someone else that was asked to leave, not him. We started getting t6 bosses down, and as expected, loot fell everywhere but to me. I didn't let that bother me, because I reminded myself that the same system that got me so much loot before would mean others would get upgrades as they needed it more. However, once that paladin overtook me in gear level, the loot did not start falling back to me. It continued to pile up on him, even gear that was a far greater upgrade for me than for him. That was the point where I left the server. There wasn't much point guild-hopping, I was at the top and didn't feel like starting over again.
Highly successful? Yes. Nice? By no means. Welcome to the World of Raiding, expect no favors.
As a guildmaster, I tried always to recruit people who fit with the rest of the group. That usually meant people in their late 20s to mid-30s who had careers and possibly kids. Folks in those stages of life are *generally* more understanding that WoW is a hobby for their guildmates, not a lifestyle. We've paused raids so that people could change diapers, and I've politely asked folks to leave if they were starting to take things too seriously or became obviously dissatisfied.
We'll never be a hardcore progression guild, but I think our members are happier with their WoW experience than a lot of folks in T6.
I nominate Vyndree and her speccing/respeccing Shaman. I can't find the thread now.
Yes Fur those where the good old days. On a pve server I just take a toon and kill the guild leader over and over again. Well it makes me feel better anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69897#pos t69897
You see he would run a pre form ab, wsg and I would play a HWL hunter and killl him the whole match. and best part was he knew it was me
:)
Kane & Warhound from Dark Council. Kane, GL and in T6+ gear, was retarded and did less dps than DA's mages in under-t5 gear. Warhound, 2nd in command, throws experience out the window, has no fuckin clue about his own class let alone others'(He was confused when someone told him Heroic Strike cost 15rage and thought I actually chose to take Control of Nature in my talents cuz I could + disregarded all progression possibilities in my tree) and basically did whatever he could to better himself; thus where I come in. He wants Improved Faerie Fire so he can change his gear around for less hit; DC's raids are caster-heavy. I'd lose more DPS by myself than he AND the rogues/hunters would gain COMBINED. They didn't care. After 2 5+page-long argument threads, mostly in my favor logic-wise, and despite placing 7thish in their DPS meters despite my, as Warhound called it, "karanub gear"(which was between post-kara and early tk/ssc + new badge gear and a BT chest) and even on my first runs where I had no clue what to expect, I was gkicked for not taking a full-spec-gimping Imp FF talent.
Yeah, I'm back in DA now :P
WTjoin Boyl's guildQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Boylston',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69911#post 69911
That would be here: http://vboxing.net/blog/vboxing.php/...nt-enhancementQuote:
Originally Posted by 'badashh',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69912#post6 9912
Ironically, my "competition" was banned almost exactly a month later during the botter banwave. One of the points I had brought up when the argument was still up in the air was the fact that the other shaman's rep looked "funny" (he was missing several common reputations which you normally see while leveling). According to Suvega, I now am the best geared enhancement shaman that is still active on our server.
Karma is lovely, isn't it? ;)
Holy crap, I'm lucky.
I've been in the same guild for over ten years, since its formation in Ultima Online, and although there have been natural highs and lows, I've never seen ANYBODY screwed over at all.
8|
Now thats the kinda Guild I would LOVE to be in.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Boylston',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69911#post 69911
As for horror stories about Guild Life?
I was with a guild for only about 2 months, spent a LOT of time helping newbies with quests and such everyday.... anyhow a newbie gets recruited with the name "Pedofile". Naturally I complained, result was that I got booted within 2minutes of my complaint. I sent in a ticket to Blizz about the name and he was forced to have it changed. I received endless tells from the GM and Officers that I was such an asshole for doing what I did, eventually having to start over on another server.
My guess is that the character was an Alt of someone in the guild more important than me. I just don't understand peoples thinking, not just one person defending the character name but a dozen high ranking people in the guild. Blows my mind.
you like enhanement Vyndree? I thought about getting some s1 enhance gear just to try it out.
It's fun mostly just to be in the raiding scene and since I have never experienced a melee class before.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'scottig',index.php?page=Thread&postID=70200#post7 0200
Like all things in WoW, particularly with shaman specs, it does eventually get redundant... But pretty much every class reaches this point once they find their "perfect rotation". The downside of speccing this way is that I don't particularly like multiboxing as enhancement, so the respec fees will eventually skyrocket.
I would argue that it's true, but depends completely on perspective. I've run MMO guilds since Ultima Online in 1996, I've been the GM of the same core of players since EQ in 97/98, and we have all been together since Beta in WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'mackenziemi',index.php?page=Thread&postID=69834#p ost69834
We have a VERY established ruleset, it's very fair, and we've gone to great measures to ensure that it's fair, not just to the guy who shows up 100% of the time, but also to the guy who just showed up and is contributing at that moment. (In our mindset, going on a raid with NO chance of winning loot isn't any more fair than the guy who shows up 100% of the time losing a bunch of items to a guy who showed up for 1 raid. That is not the discussion at hand though.) It's well documented, well communicated, and very well managed.
Over the years of running a raiding guild in WoW I have consistently been called an asshole by nearly every single person who left the guild. Yet at the same time, we have never had a looting dispute during a raid that stopped progression and wasn't clearly defined in the rules we abide by. Every dispute ever tabled was someone upset they didn't win when they thought they should have.
So my point is this, every guild leader must have an inner asshole and not be afraid to bring him out as the situation applies. The fact is every time you make a decision in a guild, someone isn't going to like it. Even if the decision is to give everyone 1000g, someone is going to bitch that they should have gotten more and someone else shouldn't have gotten any. Being asshole enough to tell the bitching minion off and put them in their place is a good thing.
True about being an asshole, but i could careless if the person is an ass or not. As long as he is fair.
Our guild rules is that main toons gets loot before non main
Tanks and healers get loot before others if needed
Offset and alts get loot
With having DKP on it in each case. So i was running Kara with my MAIN warlock, the officer is running it with an alt hunter. So when the t4 gloves helm and hands drop it will be between me and the hunter (no other hunter, lock, or mage there). On the guild ranks the hunter was a veteran like me. So i look at his gear he has the t4 gloves but not the t4 helm, so i was like ok at least i get the gloves. So the veteran hunter is the group leader and telling us orders. I whispered someone else in the group that i knew sort of well and asked him why is this person giving orders. They whispered back saying that it is an officer alt. I smiled so hard cause i was like now i can get the t4 helm and gloves. So i whisper the hunter and asked if he was an alt. He said he was and why i wanted to know. I whispered back saying that i need the t4 helm and gloves and that this is my main that i get them. Whispers back to me saying I'll let you get the gloves but the helm is mine. Well the best part was the team really sucked, the off tank was a better main tank but they had him off so a noob warrior can learn how to main tank. I got yelled at because i started dps too early and that the warrior didn't have enough agro yet. This is with sal on too with drain life (where i have reduce threat on that too) and i was still pulling... Waiting 20 sec before i dps and still pull with drain life on the SKULL too. So i just pretended to dc and left for the night. Died 20 times before we got to maiden and died on her 4 times. Good thing was i didn't have to worry about the t4 drops, but the bitchy part was that he was going to get the helm. I would have whispered the gm but i bet he would say that we need his hunter for raiding.