Vboxing: Finally, PVP takes some skill.

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05-16-2008, 09:18 PM
EvilSqueegee

Vboxing: Finally, PVP takes some skill.

So, I took my (now level 17) Plox Brothers into WSG today. As it turns out, 10-19 twinks + being 50% of the team + not being max level + not being twinked + no experience = pain.

This is ridiculously challenging. Far more than I had anticipated - which is a good thing, since that's why I started boxing. Severe respect has been built for the 5v5ers out there. I salute you, this is redonkulous. :D

In any case, I ran into a few problems that I'm curious to see how other caster-boxers have handled:

1) Aiming the drones. I can't count the times a rogue managed to solo all 5 of me because he was dancing around and I couldn't get a spell off. I'm thinking that unbinding the arrow keys from my leader might help, since I then have dedicated keys with which to face the drones to a target that won't then turn my leader away. Other than that all I can do is grab a friend, run out to the stranglethorn arena, and practice practice practice. Is there any other way to make this easier?

2) Leader dying. The only response I have to this is continuing to control the drones from my main interface... I have no method of changing my lead toon at the moment. I could quickly /focus the next leader, the problem then becomes that my spell-casting macros currently run as:

/target focus
/assist
/cast spell

I believe that possibly having the macros re-written as /assist focus, then /cast, would help solve the problem. I've seen people use [target=focus'starget] or what have you, but I'm not entirely sure how that works or if it would be better than what I'm doing now.

3) being 50% of the team. There's not much that can be done about this, but yeah... How did you other vboxers manage to get the WSG tokens for your gear? Did you grab 5 friends and premade it to everliving hell and back? I'm (as one might expect) constantly finding myself at the mercy of the main alliance zerg with no assistance. And with no chainlightning, water totems, NS, EM, and the various other abilities I have yet to acquire, it's not as effective as I'd thought it would be, yet.

Again, thanks for the input.
05-17-2008, 04:07 AM
glo

Can't even imagine a reason to BG at 17.
05-17-2008, 07:53 AM
Moxy

Welcome to BG's- it gets better. ;) I've been rolled by twinks quite a few times- seems the curse of que'ing up 5 is that you face alot of premades. :)
Still had my @$$ handed to me by a twink mage in the 40-49 bracket- well- he took me out once solo and quite a few times w/ support. ;)

The point of BG'ing at 17 and different levels on the way up is to LEARN. The tougher the situations I face, the better player I *can* become. Sometimes it just makes for ridiculous situations. :) I rolled up to a ?? rogue in Southshore the other day- popped EM and went to town nuking. When i saw *Resist* pop up for everyone- I knew I'd aimed to high and hit a 70, lol. He jacked my main and one shotted another, at which point i started jumping around and laughing. He joined in and let me rez and ride away. Don't be afraid to buck the odds now and again. ;)
05-17-2008, 09:47 AM
Boylston

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'EvilSqueegee',index.php?page=Thread&postID=65399# post65399

unbinding the arrow keys from my leader might help, since I then have dedicated keys with which to face the drones to a target that won't then turn my leader away.

This will serve you well. The quicker you do this and get used to turning your alts to face things jumping through your group, the better!

Earthbind totem helps slow them down a bit, too!
05-17-2008, 10:38 AM
EvilSqueegee

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Moxy',index.php?page=Thread&postID=65496#post6549 6

The point of BG'ing at 17 and different levels on the way up is to LEARN. The tougher the situations I face, the better player I *can* become.

Precisely.

Quote:

This will serve you well. The quicker you do this and get used to turning your alts to face things jumping through your group, the better!

Earthbind totem helps slow them down a bit, too!

And firenova is omnidirectional damage, as is 5 searing totems >.>

I imagine insta-chainlightnings will help alot with this as well. Either way, thanks for the tip. I suppose it's off to STV arenas with a few buddies to practice!

Edit: In regards to switching drones to leads.

Let's say Plox is my focus. If I were to macro him with /assist focus, he'd keep his same target. But then, with that same button, if I change my focus to Plocks, Plox will now properly assist Plocks.

This is as far as I've gotten through the process of figuring out a way to switch a drone into a temporary leader. Since all my macros (follow/cast/ect) are based on focus, I now can make them target/heal/kill properly from any interface. It's a matter of macroing a different /focus for each drone for quick transfers.

The only difficulty I can forsee is movement keybindings. Right now I have WASD moving my usual leader, and up/down/left/right moving all the drones themselves without moving the leader. I then have various whacked out numpad bindings to make syncrhonized formations easier (the plus sign, the straight line, and the lead in front of a halfcircle is all I have so far.)

Now, I suppose it's not the end of the world to use the mouse+arrow keys instead of the mouse+WASD. But even then, since all the drones use the arrow keys, my new lead would also be moving (and since the point of the arrow keys is to aim the drones, my new lead would constantly be canceling his spells and not aiming properly.)

So the question then becomes: How can I macro different keybinding profiles for movement keys? Bongos profiles, maybe? Once I've overcome this particular obstacle, then it's a matter of getting down and dirty with Keyclone to make the appropriate drone's window and the leader's window switch places when the leader role switches.

Any thoughts/suggestions? Is there perhaps a mod that does this that I'm not aware of?
05-17-2008, 12:20 PM
Boylston

There are two schools of thought on setting focus:

1.) Use a discrete macro for each character. That is, key 1= /focus Char1, key 2 = /focus Char2, etc. There are some nice reasons to go this way. Primarily in PvE, you can combine this with something like Keyclone's PiP feature to easily switch your main to someone else for looting/collection quests. This also works OK in PvP.

2.) You can use a single macro to select the next non-dead character. Here's mine:

/clearfocus
/focus Altela (Altela is my Pally tank for when I'm using Pally+4xShamans)
/stopmacro [target=focus, exists, nodead]
/focus Boylston (My lead shaman for almost everything)
/stopmacro [target=focus, exists, nodead]
/focus Boylbee (1st alt that I control if my main goes down)
/stopmacro [target=focus, exists, nodead]
/focus Boylcee (2nd alt)
/stopmacro [target=focus, exists, nodead]
/focus Boyldee (Last alt... if everyone is dead)

I use this plus a very brief "/follow focus" macro in rapid succession if my main goes down. I don't PiP-swap, personally, I just drag my mouse one screen over to Boylbee's side if something happened to take out Boylston. I find that in the heat of an arena or BG, I don't want to try to see if Boylbee is still alive or not, remember to hit the right focus key, etc. I can simply move my mouse to the alts' monitor and start driving whoever is left. This takes me less than half a second.

You can also use method #2 with method #1 as an override. That is the ultimate setup, IMO.

As for alternate turning. I use WASD+mouse to control a main, and all the alts have the arrow keys bound to their secondary movement. I don't have the right and left arrow bound on Boylston so that he won't turn at the same time as the rest. (I DO leave forward and backward on him for two reasons-- one, it is sometimes useful to move them all back at the same time and still face the correct direction; two, when I run with my Pally tank as my main and Boyl becomes a follower, I can break /follow on all the shammies with a quick tap of the back arrow).

Yes, if Boylston goes down, controlling whoever is next becomes a little more difficult because the arrow keys now turn everyone. To be honest, that's not as big a deal as it sounds. In arena, where I care the most, I am less likely to need to be able to do that after my main goes down (or, the game is now hopelessly lost...). In BGs, If my main dies, it's almost always because there's a crapload of people that have overrun us. I can take control of the others and maybe knock out a couple, but it's going to be a wipe, generally.
05-17-2008, 12:47 PM
The-Fallen-Frog

You have no weapons in the 10-19 BGs .. making you five sitting ducks waiting to be killed by uber twinks.

Unless you make yourself 5 19 shaman twinks I doubt youll have any fun.. and when you dont have fun.. you dont learn the right things :P

I'd personally skip that bracket, try for the 20-29 AB instead, youll find the experience much more enjoyable and youll learn how to cope with different situation much better!

and yea... do not bother 5 boxing in WSG.. if you're against 10 not so stupid poeple.. you stand no chance.

my 2 cents
05-17-2008, 01:52 PM
Silly Gooooose

I would have to say being a leveling character, that happens to stop and play some BGs vs the 19 twinks, is worse than me fighting full S3 kids in 5s. I hated low level BGs so much. It would be about the equivalent of me doing arenas naked.
05-17-2008, 01:56 PM
Boylston

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'The-Fallen-Frog',index.php?page=Thread&postID=65556#post65556

do not bother 5 boxing in WSG.. if you're against 10 not so stupid poeple.. you stand no chance.

This gets marginally easier at L70. It's also a little easier if you only 4-box as opposed to bringing a full 5.
05-17-2008, 04:20 PM
Moxy

I respectfully disagree with the 'don't even bother to BG at low levels'. Fighting twinks in the low level BG's had enabled me to face some pretty serious odds in World PvP- sometimes taking out multiple ?? people. (A lock, paladin, and warrior the other day.) There is always a way to be successful- its just a matter of finding it.

If pvp is your thing, and so are battlegrounds, why not enjoy the challenge?
05-18-2008, 10:19 AM
EvilSqueegee

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Moxy',index.php?page=Thread&postID=65612#post6561 2

I respectfully disagree with the 'don't even bother to BG at low levels'. Fighting twinks in the low level BG's had enabled me to face some pretty serious odds in World PvP- sometimes taking out multiple ?? people. (A lock, paladin, and warrior the other day.) There is always a way to be successful- its just a matter of finding it.

If pvp is your thing, and so are battlegrounds, why not enjoy the challenge?

It's a matter of personal taste. I've just now hit 20, and I'm working through my water totem quest. I'll be popping into AB on occasion throughout the 20's because PVP *is* my thing, and the challenge is why I love it so <3

@ Boylston:

That's some pretty hardcore macroing. I can see how it works - but how would you make use of the two methods, using #1 as an override for the quicker second method?
05-18-2008, 02:26 PM
Sun

RE: Vboxing: Finally, PVP takes some skill.

\

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'EvilSqueegee',index.php?page=Thread&postID=65399# post65399

1) Aiming the drones. I can't count the times a rogue managed to solo all 5 of me because he was dancing around and I couldn't get a spell off. I'm thinking that unbinding the arrow keys from my leader might help, since I then have dedicated keys with which to face the drones to a target that won't then turn my leader away. Other than that all I can do is grab a friend, run out to the stranglethorn arena, and practice practice practice. Is there any other way to make this easier?

War Stomp in sequence = 5x stuns without letup. Add Fire Nova between stomps with Magma Totems until the Fire Nova resets. Add Fire Shocks when you can target him or Chain Lightnings.

Melee people always forget you got 5 people in front of them. 5 Fire Novas do instant damage. 5 Magma totems will PULSE if they stay within range of them. I can usually take a rogue out quick if he doesnt remember to step out of my totems range. lol
05-18-2008, 02:38 PM
Sun

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'EvilSqueegee',index.php?page=Thread&postID=65524# post65524

Now, I suppose it's not the end of the world to use the mouse+arrow keys instead of the mouse+WASD. But even then, since all the drones use the arrow keys, my new lead would also be moving (and since the point of the arrow keys is to aim the drones, my new lead would constantly be canceling his spells and not aiming properly.)

I changed my WASD keys to E and D for forward/backward movement. Then set keyclone to not pass those keys. Which means if you change target and go to that screen the others will NOT respond if you use those keys to move for any character. I chose the E D key because I feel comfortable using my middle finger for movement. WASD key didnt work well for me so I changed it for my purposes. Just change the key binding in game for all of your toons.

I also use Q and B (notice how they are separate from each other on the keyboard) for spreading the toons. Q to the left and right X 4......B to the left and right X 2 easier to keep track of them and not mess up trying to remember which key goes for what.

***
as for PVP....I DONT do BG's but I kill on sight any and all alliance(or horde if you swing that way) lol. Sometimes you bite off more than you can chew. My very first lvl 70 kill was at lvl 54. i have had just about everything done to me at one time or another by the alliance. I learn from each encounter. I dust myself off when i get ganked. But I dont forget. 8) One time I got my 70 friend to help me with lvl 70 ganker which they used in order to control my group. He kept the 70 off of me and i proceeded to kill every alliance whether it was 2 or 6 that was my level.

NOW if you want experience in PVP....do WORLD pvp for the best results. thats my story and im stickin to it.

One last thought...get used to meleeing players as well as casting and dropping totems. You do know you can hit them 5x with your weapons for results. Dont forget your war stomp if your a Tauren.
05-21-2008, 06:55 PM
EvilSqueegee

Updates: The plox brothers are level 25. Been through SFK at 24 (Didn't realise untill it was too late that all the mobs within would be green) and WC at 20, caught both runs on tape and am in the process of editing the footage together to look decent.

In regards to PVP:

I scored my first one-button kill earlier tonight. I almost fell out of my chair laughing, I don't think I'd ever seen someone go down to just a frostshock. (admittedly, it was 5, but that still doesn't remove any of the amusement factor!) I can't wait for the toys I'll be getting as I progress.

I'm pretty sure now I'm just dying for lack of HP (which, in turn, is a gear thing.) My lead keeps going down almost before I realise anything's nearby. I can take two at a time, even with the lead going down by the time the first enemy is at 50%. This is more difficult against hunters, who tend to hit me from beyond my field of vision, and who's pets eat up my first tab-target. I've actually managed to pull a few pets off myself with stoneclaw totem, which makes me laugh every time.

I'm noticing a big improvement in my reactionary skills against melee, now. Earthbind totems and fire novas are ripping it up for me, as are the 5x frost shocks :P In fact, it seems that aside from the occasional "lolhe'swearingcloth" ambushing rogue, most melee die pretty quickly. People dancing around is forcing me to learn how to aim the drones, which is a good thing. My biggest issue is over-correcting at the moment, due mostly to the inavoidable lag that happens between clients (I'm watching on my leader's screen and aiming that way, since I need to focus on so much of the stuff on that UI.)

I can see how picking up elemental mastery is going to boost my PVP viability - having a controlled burst I'll have access to is going to be priceless. I'm going to have to restrain myself immensely to not pop it the instant it's up every time it's up, so I can save my ass when I need to :P I've got to learn to spend GCD's on purge, as well. You'd think I'd know this much already, because I was PVPing on my enhancement shaman back before Nax came out, but it's been so long since I played her I'm learning everything all over again XD

The main thing that keeps dragging me down, of course, is my leader going down. I'm in the process of setting up Boyl's macro now, going to give it a run for a few AB's - hoping to eventually win one, since it's worth EXP for me. I also need to figure out the PiP switching. I'll poke around the FAQ's and see if I can't get it working.