Dell - A cautionary tale

My desktop PC is a Dell. It was bought specifically to play WoW and only WoW. It's not a very powerful PC but it was cheap (damn cheap) and it's quiet (very quiet). I've been very happy with it.

Now that I'm multi-boxing, it no longer fits the bill. I want to run five WoWs on it rather than one WoW and four more on my (also Dell) laptop.

I took the side off and checked the motherboard. It's a Foxconn G33M02. I looked on Foxconn's website and found the G33M (close enough) supports processors up to 1333MHz FSB and specifically lists the Q6600.

So I ordered a Q6600 and 2x2GB of memory and it arrived today.

But...

Dell have removed five of the eleven power regulators from the board so that it can't supply the power the Q6600 requires :( There is a version of the motherboard that does support the processor (the G33M03) but even that only has nine of the regulators fitted.

So now I know how Dell makes its PCs so cheap. And it sucks :(

Fortunately, I discovered this before breaking the seal on any of the boxes and as my supplier has a nifty online returns system, I can send the stuff back and all I lose is the postage. Not much consolation though.

So now I'm faced with either:

• Bunging Dell some more money for a new PC,
• Bunging someone else even more money for a new PC, or
• Sticking with what I have.

/sigh

That exactly why I build mine from the ground up. No suprises that way.

Take your own advice...the only reason Dell is cheaper is BECAUSE THEY GIMP THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR PARTS. :P Multiboxing won't allow such thievery of vital system parts, pay a little more to a reliable brand of parts and be assured yer shit's full-powered and gonna last through future upgrades.

If you can afford the upgrade, go for it, might run alot better and more performance, especially in towns for showing off, is good :P

I think I'm gonna keep the parts I've ordered but get the retail version of the mobo too and swap it in. Just gonna check to make sure that Dell haven't gimped anything else like weld the motherboard in or fit it with non-standard connectors or anti-personnel mines. I have a couple of spare power supplies so all that will be left of the Dell is its case and the drives so I'll proabbly be safe.

Lesson learned though.

Never buy dell, ever.

It doesn't matter what you want to do, unless it happens to be buying a computer to give to some one you hate, then maybe buy Dell. Though I'd rather give that person an E-Machines rather than give Dell more money.

Dell does indeed have a track record of SUCKING HARD. lol even back when I first started poking around with computers in the 90s they had the bad rep, and that pot-smoking "DUDE UR GETTIN A DELL LOLOLOLOL" mascot didnt' help things either lol

Yes, Dell's do have some shortcomings however:

I have a C2D 1.8GHZ model with 1 Gb of ram, 7600GT video card and XP, not exactly top of the line components but I can still run 4 copies of WoW at a very acceptable framerate. If you look here most folks tout MUCH more powerful systems, WoW just isnt that huge a cpu/gpu hog.

My WoW instances all run at 800x600, main window with most of the video goodies on and the alts all the way down.

I dont go into big cities as the lag is pretty bad, but in instances my main runs between 20-30 fps and I don't ever really notice any lag.

It may be your net connection also.

You just need the right mix of components.

Aye my current system is

AMD x64 dual-core - 2gb ddr2 ram - 7900 GS vidcard - old-ass IDE 120gb drive, single monitor @ 1280x1024 desktop res, WoWs @ 1024x768 and I run 5 of them fine out in the wild...but god forbid I get near a Major City...I went to Exodar for my Fire Totem quest recently on my quint-set of shamen...there were barely any people there and the lag went apeshit on me, I LOST /follow on 3 of 5 alts at random intervals...I don't even want to think about SW IF or Shattrath...*shudder*; having a better system promotes more stability/stable numbers in fps and such, though non-horizontal span/double monitors/double vidcards makes things worse instead of better for some reason.

And again, Dell sucks ;p I dunno if I'd say e-machines is any better(cuz my emergency backup comp is one...and oh god I hate that thing so much) but you really are best off custom-building if you want shit to work and to work right/well lol

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Originally Posted by 'sensenmann',index.php?page=Thread&postID=63454#po st63454

Never buy dell, ever.

It doesn't matter what you want to do, unless it happens to be buying a computer to give to some one you hate, then maybe buy Dell. Though I'd rather give that person an E-Machines rather than give Dell more money.

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I support thousands of Dell servers and PC in the field. The only pre-built PC I'd ever buy would be from Dell. You want to see problems with service, go buy an HP or Compaq and watch them leave an entire payment processing system down for 2 weeks while they order some part from China that has to be custom made when one breaks that costs 10's of thousands of dollars in lost productivity and interest on deposits.

@OP -You bought some canned solution. You're complaining about your Geo Metro not being able to keep pace with my Ford Mustang at the race track. Your "damn cheap" solution is exactly what you paid for. Considering how I've bought $150.00 PC's from Dell, I can only imagine that it's some stripped down Optiplex which is 100% fixed hardware except for one PCI slot.

It's fixed configuration free after rebate computer FTL, not a Dell problem.

BTW - Worked at a big box retail store. Normal procedure was to throw away E-machines when they broke due to the 100% custom parts. E-machines wouldn't even take them back, was cheaper to destroy the old POS than to figure out what was wrong and fix it. We were also specifically told not to troubleshoot them other than plug them in and see if they turn on since there was no kickback to the store for labor. I can say just about the same story for IBM, Sony, Gateway, Toshiba and all of the rest for how cruddy their consumer units are for upgrades, spare parts and general service.

Build your own, end of story.

I'm with Sarduci,

The problem you are complaining about isn't a Dell problem, its a "packaged PC" problem. I build all my own personal machines. For work, I order custom spec'd machines from Dell. I used to only buy Compaq's, but they haven't been the same since they were bought by HP.

BTW - comparing an e-machines to a Dell is like comparing a brain cancer to a cold. Just say no to e-machines!

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Originally Posted by 'Sarduci',index.php?page=Thread&postID=63569#post6 3569

@OP -You're complaining about your Geo Metro not being able to keep pace with my Ford Mustang at the race track. Your "damn cheap" solution is exactly what you paid for.

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Don't get me wrong, I still feel the Dell was excellent value for money and I'd still buy them but I've learned something about them which I'll remember in the future.

The Dell came with a leaflet explaining how to fit a graphics card, install memory, and replace the CPU. What it didn't come with is a list of supported processors or more importantly a list of unsupported processors. Dell's BIOS updates do not have release notes beyond "Added support for new Intel processors". Dell lead you to believe that you can perform a variety of upgrades without making clear the exceptions.

It's a gotcha and I got got. The point of the post is not to complain but to help others avoid my mistake.

Caveat Emptor.

If you buy a Dell, HP, Gateway, etc., expect to only be able to upgrade cards that go in the expansion slots and then only to the specific models supported by (and usually available from) the OEMs for that model. The only way you guarantee upgrade compatibility is building your own.

Regarding the "de-populated" motherboards, this is NOT unique to Dell. All of the major OEMs build systems that cheap because they ALL de-feature the boards to support only what the system specs say they support. Lite-on, Foxconn, Qanta, etc. ALL of the major ODMs remove parts if it reduces costs. This should not be a surprise. It is MUCH more prevalent on the ultra-cheapie boxes but even the high-end systems from them are limited in what upgrades they support.

Random fyi semi related:

Dell is going to end the XPS line to promote Alienware sales (dell bought alien) so I wonder if alienware's going to be corrupted as much as the xps were. My dad just bought an xps for business work (nothing too fancy) and he hasnt had many problems, but what can you run into when checking email and surfing the web.

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Originally Posted by 'Maz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=63588#post63588

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Originally Posted by 'Sarduci',index.php?page=Thread&postID=63569#post6 3569

@OP -You're complaining about your Geo Metro not being able to keep pace with my Ford Mustang at the race track. Your "damn cheap" solution is exactly what you paid for.

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Don't get me wrong, I still feel the Dell was excellent value for money and I'd still buy them but I've learned something about them which I'll remember in the future.

The Dell came with a leaflet explaining how to fit a graphics card, install memory, and replace the CPU. What it didn't come with is a list of supported processors or more importantly a list of unsupported processors. Dell's BIOS updates do not have release notes beyond "Added support for new Intel processors". Dell lead you to believe that you can perform a variety of upgrades without making clear the exceptions.

It's a gotcha and I got got. The point of the post is not to complain but to help others avoid my mistake.

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Before ordering next time, give the folks at Dell a call. [img]../forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.png[/img] They'll be able to tell you what CPUs are supported 99% of the time unless you want to put in something that was way different than the stock family.

Sorry if it came off a bit harsh, it's just that it irks me sometimes that people are hard on a particular manufacturer (of anything) without understanding that it's a much bigger issue than the one brand. My Windows 2008 server running Hyper-V gets bashed all the time by people for being "bloated" but these same people go for the throat when I trash talk all of the memory leaks with Firefox that I don't seem to have in IE7..... (for the record, I'm all best tool for the job with anything computer related, but getting free stuff at road shows is good on the personal budget!)

i have a dell also its a grate Pc can box 5 not tryed more only bad thing is lag (MEGA LAG) in the citys , went to buy a new Hdd and it wont fit so now i know why not to buy dell :O

Your bad mouthing a company when you bought a cheap system?
Yeah it's true they cheap out with parts, but in return you get it for cheap.

Buy an XPS/Performance system (which costs more) and you will get what you paid for.

Also Dell allows you to custom build your computer, if you speak to sales support and tell them you specifically want some you can upgrade, you will get something you can upgrade.

First, unless it's RAM or a hard drive, don't bother upgrading most "brand-name" PCs. They use far too many proprietary components, mainly gimped motherboards and very specific (and weak) power supplies. *If* you must buy a fully-built PC, do it from someone who is essentially a home-builder-turned-business like Falcon Northwest. Alienware *used* to be this way, but not any more. If I ever chose to not build my own machine, I'd buy one of the Falcon Northwest machines over an XPS/Alienware any day. I don't want any proprietary parts in my box - I want to know that every piece in the machine is replaceable by someone outside of the place I bought it, so I don't get ripped off if I need to replace something, or if I want to upgrade, I don't run into compatibility problems.

Holy thread necro, but I'll bite.

You do know Alienware is owned by Dell, correct?

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Originally Posted by 'Bovidae',index.php?page=Thread&postID=63575#post6 3575

Build your own, end of story.

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QFT

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Originally Posted by 'Sarduci',index.php?page=Thread&postID=98202#post9 8202

You do know Alienware is owned by Dell, correct?

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Alienware is awsum and you know it!

LOL Skuggo, Alienware is only awesome if you want to pay $1000 more to have an alien logo on your computer. :P

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Originally Posted by 'Anozireth',index.php?page=Thread&postID=98296#pos t98296

LOL Skuggo, Alienware is only awesome if you want to pay $1000 more to have an alien logo on your computer. :P

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This. But for folks that can't/won't build their own, it's the premium you hafta pay for real gaming PCs. (Note that Dell's high-end XPS OC'd gaming rigs are about on par with them for pricing from what I've seen.)

I'm yet to see a PC supplied by a vendor which I couldn't do a better job of building myself.

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Originally Posted by 'Wilbur',index.php?page=Thread&postID=98658#post98 658

I'm yet to see a PC supplied by a vendor which I couldn't do a better job of building myself.

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Quality, Ease of setup, Cost, pick two.

Quality, Cost = build it yourself
Quality, Ease of setup = buy an expensive computer from a company
Cost, Ease of setup = buy a cheap computer from a company or pay someone who builds cheap systems to do it for you

I'll start off by saying: I WORK at DELL (Nashville). I work in Gold Tech Support, though now more commonly known as ProSupport. We only support businesses/Govt./HIED/ect in our group. I've been with the company for 3yrs now and own 7 of our systems (4 xps, 1 latitude, 2 insipiron).

As others have said.. you do get what you pay for- you buy a cheap/cheaper system, don't expect great reliability on the parts.. or not as much as you would on one of our other systems. IMO with our systems, if you want to do multiboxing.. I wouldn't bother with anything but an xps of if you really have some money to spend, a precision workstation (but really, you dont need dual xeons and 164gb memory support to multibox).

So if what you bought was like say... a Vostro (which is like an inspiron only painted black), or a Dimension system... I wouldn't expect great gaming, reliable parts, nor fantastic upgrade options out of it.

And to the alienware comments.. I dunno who/where you got your info from that we're stopping the xps line... last I looked on the development pages.. we're still pushing those out...

One other note I'd suggest. I you do buy a DELL, get a warranty, especially if you bought one of the lower end systems. I feel sorry for the people I have to tell that they don't have a current contract and they've gotta pay for their parts replacements &/or tech support. Granted most of you may/maynot need tech support.. but do yourself a favor.. fake having a business (say, self employed).. and get yourself a gts/pro support contract/warranty.. otherwise after that 1yr after your purchase date, not only are you out of warranty, but all of your support is overseas... so if you *do* need a part replaced.. you've gotta deal with non-native english speeking persons, who have scripted questions/responses.

It's not even close to like that where I work- *sigh* It's really awesome *sigh* I love it there......

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You do know Alienware is owned by Dell, correct?

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Seriously?

http://www.google.com/search?q=dell+...ient=firefox-a

Results 1 - 10 of about 294,000 for dell buys alienware. (0.22 seconds)

DELL does make a top level gaming machine however it is not cheap at $4.5k, it doesn't come with x64, it is limited to 2G of ram.
for $4.5k you should be able to build an x64 machine with 8G of RAM and still have money left over for a vacation.

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Originally Posted by 'Catamer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=101473#post 101473

DELL does make a top level gaming machine however it is not cheap at $4.5k, it doesn't come with x64, it is limited to 2G of ram.
for $4.5k you should be able to build an x64 machine with 8G of RAM and still have money left over for a vacation.

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Not cheap.. but that doesn't mean it's not a ripoff for anyone else. To put it into comparison, here's what $4,500 can get you if you don't go XPS:

Q9650 $560 (3.0GHz 12mb cache, same as QX9650)
Asus P5Q Premium $260
16GB (4x4GB) OCZ DDR2-800 $442
2x GTX 280 $860
2x 24" Dell Ultrasharp WFP2408 $1358
Antec P182 $140
Corsair 1000W PSU $260
2x 300GB WD Velociraptors $560
..and $200 left over. (Keyboard, Mouse, DVD Drive)
How much would this rig cost from Dell/Alienware/Whoever? $5500+?

Lol, for $5400 I'd have 8 22" monitors, 4 video cards, and only 8 GB of RAM on a dual socket Q6600. I don't think there's a mobo out there right now that'd let me do that though..... I'm 100% certain I can do half of that at well under $2700.00

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Originally Posted by 'Sarduci',index.php?page=Thread&postID=101610#post 101610

Lol, for $5400 I'd have 8 22" monitors, 4 video cards, and only 8 GB of RAM on a dual socket Q6600. I don't think there's a mobo out there right now that'd let me do that though..... I'm 100% certain I can do half of that at well under $2700.00

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There are a couple boards that can do 4x videocards (although some will have to be single-slot cards, including cooler):
Asus & MSI X48 boards (4x PCI-x16 slots, two operate at x16, and two operate at x4):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130140

Otherwise, for dual-socket and 4x PCI-x16, you'll need the socket LGA 771 Xeon Skulltrail board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=skulltrail
Not only is the board $630, the RAM is more expensive.. $340 for 8GB FBDIMM-DDR2. That's $1000 for the mobo & RAM without the CPUs, the cheapest being Xeon 5405 at $231 x2 = $462.
Hmm.. I wonder if the Skulltrail platform is capable of smoothly 10-boxing on a single PC..
2x Quad Cores..
16 GB RAM..
4x Videocards..
8x Monitors..

I purchased an XPS 420 desktop system w quad core 6600, 8 gig, 500 gig sata, 8800gts, vista 32(upgraded to vista 64 because the oem license is either and MS has media for it ), 24 widescreen monitor and a g11 keyboard for just over $1600.

I manage several 100 dell desktops/laptops across the country. We have several machine still in live enviroments that are over 8 years old. The only problem was we had (and everyone else had) was with the sx260/270 usff desktops machines and bad capacitors on the MB for short time. Luckily dell extended the warrenty on those machines. Other than that, I would recommmend Dell to anyone.