Interesting Quad Rogue Arena Strategy

I am in the process of leveling four UD Rogues, each currently at 49. Here's the Arena strategy that me and my teammate (a Druid) are going to use. I've never seen it attempted before (or even discussed for that matter):

Alright, my Rogues will be specced approximately as such at 70 - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxfZZEMes0GRcxsu
My Druid (Tauren of course) partner will take a hybrid Resto/Feral spec in Feral arena gear, with HotW, NI, LotP, NS and GoN, the following linked build giving you a general idea - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zZxGhscbRezZAxIz0q

Unlikely specs for PvPs, true, but bear with me a moment... ;)

Now, the Arena will begin with all five of us (that is, all two of us) stealthed. The less plate wearers on their team, the easier this will be. Ideally, as you will see, there's no Paladin on their team to cast BoP, but if there is that's exactly why the Druid was brought along. The Druid will pop out of stealth at 20 yards off and cyclone their Paladin (or their Warrior if there is no Paladin, or Warlock if there neither are present) and run like hell.

This is where I come in. I pop my trinkets, Premed, and Shadowstep behind their Priest (or other clothie if no Priest is present). 3 Ambushes and 1 Garrote (to prevent defensive spells and AoE CCs), followed up by four Imp. Eviscerates (4 CBs per Rogue). After both attacks, I'll still have at least 50+ Energy to burn him down if somehow the Priest lived through 3 maximumly-multiplied Ambushes, 4 Eviscerates, and 1-2 white hits.

The kill should take no more than 2.5 seconds, and I'll immediately vanish after the fact (trinketing or WotF to get out fear if I need to).

In the mean time, their team will have the choice to either group up against a second stealth attack or continue chasing after the Druid. Either one works for me. Assuming they foolishly pursue my Druid partner, I strike their next caster or support (Mage, Warlock, or Druid) without hesitation. My attacks won't be quite as strong as my first barrage, but killing a caster with 4 Rogues shouldn't take more than 6 seconds especially with their Priest eliminated. If they don't chase the Druid, then we just remain in stealth and repeat the first phase again.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I'm very excited about using this strat. Any criticism would be more than welcome. Obviously, we'll take the needed precautions against flares and Perception by keeping patient and equipping a good deal of +stealth gear.

You can be countered by:
Warstomp
Frost Nova

A smart team seeing a 4-box melee would be countered by a constant movements, and terrain jumping, and traversing paths where auto follow can be stuck.

A AoE fear will make your formation to collapse and you'll be disoriented, spending 3 seconds to make your 3 other rogues /follow you back.

A single rogue can mess you up too, sap 1, cheap shot one, blind more more and your dps is gone because you will not be able to react quickly to counter each CC, not as well as a dedicated 1-box rogue.

2x Shadowstep, one should be followed by at least 1 Cheap shot, because Ambush + Evis is enough time for a priest to hit that aoe fear, or for a pally bubble.

Moving targets will also mess you up because melee stops following once they start autoattack.

By the way, as to why the Druid is specced/geared oddly like that, it is perfectly suited for speed and sustaining a heavy beating while my four Rogues take out their team systematically. With the high armor/15% speed bonus from Feral Gladiator gear, 10% extra armor from Thick Hide, 20% extra Stamina from HotW, healing bonuses from NI and GoN, instant self-heal with NS, Feral Charge and Cyclone/Roots my partner can create a large window of opportunity for me to take out their casters and support.

this sounds really fun =)

You will however hit a ceiling very early on. but not everyone goes for 2300 like ellay =)

I'd be very interested to see how you do. sounds like its a gamble team, same as 5 rogue teams. they can do well, and there is a 5 rogue team with a 2k rating out there somewhere, but oddball teams usually cap out quickly.

Would be very fun though, keep us informed and hit 70 fast so we can get some feedback =)

WTB Video of your rogues in combat as-is; I'm very interested in seeing how you pull off multiple melee :p

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Originally Posted by 'Sanctume',index.php?page=Thread&postID=59533#post 59533

You can be countered by:
Warstomp
Frost Nova

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Vanish and/or CloS will counter Frost Nova.

As for Warstomp, if they can manage to pull it off in the short period I'm visible attacking one of their casters, 2 seconds of CC isn't the end of the world if my partner has created enough of a diversion to limit the damage.

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A smart team seeing a 4-box melee would be countered by a constant movements, and terrain jumping, and traversing paths where auto follow can be stuck.

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I understand this, which is why most of my attacks will occur from stealth. With initial stealth + 2 Vanishes (Prep) + some practice, I should be able to carry out 3 seperate opening volleys during the match, each one usually taking out a caster or healer (saving melee DPS and Hunters for last).

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A AoE fear will make your formation to collapse and you'll be disoriented, spending 3 seconds to make your 3 other rogues /follow you back.

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I've thought extensively about this as this would be my greatest threat in Arenas.

1) I plan to use WotF or CloS right before my opener if they have an AoE fearer close enough to reach me.
2) If at all possible, I'll try to Sap their Warlock or Warrior before my opener. I'll be using 1x Garrote on their Priest so I'm not concerned about that.
3) My Druid partner will aid by Cycloning their Warrior or Warlock if possible.
4) Positioning.

Hopefully, these together should make fearing my Rogues an improbability.

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A single rogue can mess you up too, sap 1, cheap shot one, blind more more and your dps is gone because you will not be able to react quickly to counter each CC, not as well as a dedicated 1-box rogue.

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By taking on their casters and support in my first few barrages, I believe the tables will be evened enough to go toe to toe with their melee DPS. Especially if they're distracted my be Druid partner.

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2x Shadowstep, one should be followed by at least 1 Cheap shot, because Ambush + Evis is enough time for a priest to hit that aoe fear, or for a pally bubble.

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Instead of Cheap Shot, I'm reserving a Garrote for the Priest/Mage/Warlock I'm opening on, and if there's a Pally near, either I'll Sap it or my partner will Cyclone it, depending on the unqiue circumstances.

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Moving targets will also mess you up because melee stops following once they start autoattack.

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This is definitely true. If all goes as planned I can avoid this problem by unloading a combination of Crippling Poisons, Kidney Shots, Gouges, and Deadly Throws on my target... along with dealing so much damage in such a short period that they aren't going to get far anyway.

Some friends and I ran a not-multiboxed Rogue 3v3 team up to ~1800, we hit a wall when people had enough resil & hp to not be insta-ganked anymore. Our gear was pretty bad, mostly T4-5 PvE stuff, we could have gone higher with full S3 I'm sure.
Not sure if 5v5 will be better or worse, you have more burst damage to kill someone, but more people to kill as well.
Also, multiboxing + melee seems to be a nightmare to me, but if you can handle it good luck ! (and post videos!)

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Originally Posted by 'Eteocles',index.php?page=Thread&postID=59539#post 59539

WTB Video of your rogues in combat as-is; I'm very interested in seeing how you pull off multiple melee :p

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I second this. I'm interested in seeing 4x ambushes and such in PVE.

Also, 5v5, you have 2 mega nukes (shadowstep + killer combo) in total. Then repeat via Vanish.

So that's 3 v 4-box+1

And then your cool down is done; unless you managed to run away, out of combat and re-stealth.

What 5-man team wont be unloading dots, bleed. And don't forget hunter pets that keeps agro even after you vanish.

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Originally Posted by 'Stabface',index.php?page=Thread&postID=59547#post 59547

Some friends and I ran a not-multiboxed Rogue 3v3 team up to ~1800, we hit a wall when people had enough resil & hp to not be insta-ganked anymore. Our gear was pretty bad, mostly T4-5 PvE stuff, we could have gone higher with full S3 I'm sure.
Not sure if 5v5 will be better or worse, you have more burst damage to kill someone, but more people to kill as well.
Also, multiboxing + melee seems to be a nightmare to me, but if you can handle it good luck ! (and post videos!)

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I've gone through calculations, and 4 Sub. Rogues with S2 daggerss or higher and the build I linked should be capable of killing any cloth-wearer with up to 15k HP in under 2.5 seconds.

On average, 2 of the 3 Ambushes will crit, each maximumly-multiplied by MoS, Opp., Shadowstep, and Murder (10%, 20%, 20%, 2% respectively). This will be followed by 4 3-4 CB Eviscerates and 8 white attacks (2 from each Rogue), each of these also increased by MoS and Murder. We're only 2 seconds into the attack at this point. If he's still alive, 4 good ol' SS'es will finish him off, especially with Dirty Deeds increasing the damage once he's under 35%.

By the way, I'm making one of these for each of my Rogues... it works in stealth - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24128

I've alternatively thought of going Cold Blood + 4 Ambushes. But getting into range without SS would be quite risky. One perception or flare or trap and it's all she wrote.

When I had Cold Blood on my rogue, I also had Imp Ambush; that 15% usually guarantees a crit, so I don't recommend wasting CB on it ;p Use it on the Backstab AFTERwards ;D lol

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Originally Posted by 'Eteocles',index.php?page=Thread&postID=59560#post 59560

When I had Cold Blood on my rogue, I also had Imp Ambush; that 15% usually guarantees a crit, so I don't recommend wasting CB on it ;p Use it on the Backstab AFTERwards ;D lol

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True, and the 20% multiplier from Shadowstep minimizes the difference anyways. :)

Interesting strategy. I'd really like to see it attempted and practiced. Too many times I've seen "Oh that won't work" without the hours of practice it takes to really be successful. I bet Ellay didn't run in the arena and insta-own everyone the first week he was in there. If there hasn't been many, and I mean many, hours of practice trying something before failure...then I don't believe it to be impossible.

The shamans were once thought as being impossible, and Ellay proved that theory wrong. The rogues are another group that is coined impossible currently, but there is no really strong evidence proving it impossible. I say go for it! All the theorycrafting in the world won't show it to be possible or impossible until it is really put to the test. It looks like you've thought it out quite a bit and have a drive that could eventually lead us to some nice vids in the future :)

will not work. sorry, just no way. i've played a rogue for years.

4x actually played rogues in a 5's team isn't that great, 4x played by one will be bad.

4x broken vanish... hah.

to pick a positional spec on top of everything else, yikes.


4 ele shams can work because:

• they aren't melee
• they can attack things that aren't targeted (focus, etc)

you might all be able to shs one guy, if he isn't sitting on a hunter flair, and gib him, then you will get destroyed.

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Originally Posted by 'warcrime',index.php?page=Thread&postID=59657#post 59657

will not work. sorry, just no way. i've played a rogue for years.

4x actually played rogues in a 5's team isn't that great, 4x played by one will be bad.

4x broken vanish... hah.

to pick a positional spec on top of everything else, yikes.


4 ele shams can work because:

• they aren't melee
• they can attack things that aren't targeted (focus, etc)

you might all be able to shs one guy, if he isn't sitting on a hunter flair, and gib him, then you will get destroyed.

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To be totally honist i think, dispite the complications of boxing a melee team in pvp it shouldnt be considered impossible.

I really salute those people who try somthing different rather than just going 4 or 5 shaman cus its a tried and tested proved to work method, thats kinda like playing a warlock rogue or warrior becuase you know that they can dominate in solo pvp rahter than playing a class that you really wanted to play.

Good luck with your rogues mate i hope you can post some vids or pictures

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Originally Posted by 'wougoose',index.php?page=Thread&postID=59644#post 59644

Interesting strategy. I'd really like to see it attempted and practiced. Too many times I've seen "Oh that won't work" without the hours of practice it takes to really be successful. I bet Ellay didn't run in the arena and insta-own everyone the first week he was in there. If there hasn't been many, and I mean many, hours of practice trying something before failure...then I don't believe it to be impossible.

The shamans were once thought as being impossible, and Ellay proved that theory wrong. The rogues are another group that is coined impossible currently, but there is no really strong evidence proving it impossible. I say go for it! All the theorycrafting in the world won't show it to be possible or impossible until it is really put to the test. It looks like you've thought it out quite a bit and have a drive that could eventually lead us to some nice vids in the future :)

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QFMT

I was constantly hearing that multiple melee boxing was not feasible at all when I first joined the community. Then I started up my own little melee team and figured out a few things and started to hear people say that I might be able to kill things but instance would be too hard, I messed around with it some more and I'm getting through instances w/o any real struggles even the melee unfriendly ones and now people of course saying "Well yea but those aren't outland zones, outland zones are much harder."

Once I get to outlands I have no doubt that I'll be able to complete instances and I'll most likely get people telling me crap like "Well yea but those weren't heroics." Then I'll do some heroics and I'm sure at that point people will still find something to try and get me to doubt myself...

The honest truth is that all to often people immediately dismiss new ideas bucause someone else, more experienced then them told them it's not possible. There's other reasons as well but it seems like this is the main reason. My advice to the OP give it a try! Even if it doesn't work out exactly as well as you had hoped you'll only fail if you don't take your experiences and learn from them. Perhaps you'll learn that you can do it but need to change up some macros and movement strategies, or perhaps class set-up a bit, or w/e.

The only complete failures in life are the ones where we choose to not learn anything at all...

go for it!! if nothing else it will be a hell of a lot of fun, and you will end up with 4 of the highest dps class in game for pve ^^

can i give a few things i think might help for this team setup? :)

play it sneaky sneaky.

stealth: CS, Rupture and 2xambush any casters for a quick kill. (stun and silence + insane damage all in one) then immediately vanish as you said but use ur shadow step as a means of escaping the area ur in as the others will undoubtedbly be aware where you just were.

so quick kill, vanish and jump behind an incoming player with all 5 and run in the opposite direction. wait till your CDs are ready and do it again :) although the restrictions on those whirlwinds might mess this up

Just because a group of people say something doesn't mean it's true. It also doesn't mean they are wrong and/or that you can prove them wrong.

Me? I'm not saying it can't be done(out loud anyway), but I don't see melee working in arenas well at all. That shouldn't stop you from trying it if you want to. I encourage you to prove me wrong and I hope you do. In the pve aspect the only fights that I could see give meleers a problem are ones that involve a lot of movement. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get far in pve with meleers, but I would still say they are worse off than other classes without proof. Again, feel encouraged to try and prove me wrong.

main reason i really think this could work is because of shadow step it puts the characaters in exactly the right spot for meleeing

i really hope it works out for you mate keep us posted

One more thing, try auto following a stealth while stealth.
You would lose formation rather quick.
And then it takes time to find your followers.

You will have problems with team that can fear and cc to get you to blow trinkets and wotf.

Also If I go after you with my 5 hunters in s1 you die . for 18 seconds you must live but hunters and pets ruin you to death. 5 shoots, traps, 5 pets. would be fun to watch.

for fun 5 paldins vs your rogues

Regarding following in stealth, I seem to remember being able to see stealthed party members quite some distance away.