Greater Blessings and Pets

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10-26-2019, 06:45 PM
nodoze

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Greater Blessings and Pets

If running a team with something like PaladinTank+3Warlocks(+3pets)+Priest and you have 'Greater Blessing of Salvation' (GBoS) on the Priest, the Warlocks, and the Warlock Pets, do the Warlocks or Priest lose GBoS if the Paladin casts 'Greater Blessing of Kings' (GBoK) on the Warlock Pets?

Edit: Related question... Can a Paladin target a Warlock's phased Imp and Greater Bless all Phased Imps in the Party/Raid?

I have been doing some research and have not found an definitive answer on what happens at cap in Classic when a level 60 Paladin casts a Greater Blessing on Pets (specifically concerned about Warlock pets in my current research).

The best hits I found so far are from the comments on 'Greater Blessing of Wisdom':

Quote:

"By Orwinsteel on 2006/03/22 (Patch 1.9.4)
Subject: "Greater blessings"Blessings will cover everyone of the same class so if you cast it on yourself in a party or more often in a raid, you bless every paladin in range of you. Same thing with other classes.

Pets also get blessed depending on if they can go stealth or not. Pets that can go stealth get blessed when you bless a rogue, while pets who can't are blessed when you bless warriors.

Klavutso on 2006/03/22 (Patch 1.9.4)Subject: "Adjustement"
No ... it is not true! If you bless the pet, the warrior get the bless too ... but if you bless the warrior first, the pet doesn't have it!"

Can anyone test and verify what happens to existing Blessings/classes in Classic?

Note: The below discussion assumes that the Blessing of Pets generates Threat like the Blessing of Players does... This needs to be tested/confirmed...

The reason it matters to me is I want to understand the best "shout' AoE Threat options a Paladin Tank can have with various 5man party teams ideally without overwriting Greater Blessing of Salvation... For example:

PaladinTank+PaladinHealer+3Mages: Paladin Tank can spam GBoK on the 3 Mages while they still have GBoS from Paladin Healer;

PaladinTank+PaladintHealer+3Warlocks+3Pets: Paladin Tank can spam GBoK on the 3 Warlocks while they still have GBoS from Paladin Healer;

PaladinTank+PriesttHealer+3Warlocks+3Pets: Paladin Tank can [maybe] spam GBoK on the 3 Pets while the Warlocks keep GBoS from the Paladin Tank;

If this last scenario works it may be really nice to be able to both give -30% Threat to the Warlocks yet still have high AoE burst threat all from a single Paladin Tank with another healer (like a Priest). To be able to do that otherwise you need 2 Paladins...

For reference it has been confirmed that if you are Blessing 3 targets you can push 228 Threat Per Second (TPS) on top of whatever other Threat the Paladin Tank is pushing:
https://www.dual-boxing.com/attachme...tid=2257&stc=1
If you were to do a "self-healing tank" approach you should be able to push over 300 TPS by casting GBoK on 4 Targets but that would strip them of their GBoS (unless you were running a party with pets)... I guess a party of Paladin+4Warlocks or Paladin+4Hunters could maybe do that by spamming GBoK on the pets while keeping -30% Threat GBoS on the Warlocks/Hunters...

The highest possible scenario I could think of would be if all 5 members of the Party use their 'Barov Peasant Caller' to call 15 Peasants, assuming they can be Blessed by GBoK, you could push over 1,100 TPS ... If they count as pets and your 5box party also has 4 pets out then that would be around 1444 TPS...

Unfortunately the graph doesn't have room if you were to also summon Engineering Pets or the Defender of the Timbermaw but you could be approaching 2K TPS...

If a 40man raid called their Peasants & Engineering pets, not counting regular pets, it would be over 18,000 Threat per cast of GBoK or ~12K TPS if casting on pets also works (and these all count as pets) :D
10-26-2019, 09:36 PM
Purpleflavor

For threat, i believe the only blessing that doesnt give threat is Wisdom, and Kings was only optimal because it's the cheapest mana cost. I wish i could help you with a definitive answer, but i'm not high enough on my pallys yet.

In past experience which was a decade ago (yikes), and how i remember it was pets were assigned sub classes (hunter pet= warriors, warlock pets=paladins), but were still considered separate from players. So buffing a hunter pet buffed all hunter pets. Buffing a warlock pet buffed all warlock pets.

There was a bug for a short time that would combine player warriors and hunter pets, and pallys and warlock pets, but it was fixed. Wish i could give you some accurate tested data but i cant. If the bug exists in this version of classic, than that would be great for warlock pally teams.
10-26-2019, 11:21 PM
nodoze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purpleflavor

For threat, i believe the only blessing that doesnt give threat is Wisdom, and Kings was only optimal because it's the cheapest mana cost. I wish i could help you with a definitive answer, but i'm not high enough on my pallys yet.

In past experience which was a decade ago (yikes), and how i remember it was pets were assigned sub classes (hunter pet= warriors, warlock pets=paladins), but were still considered separate from players. So buffing a hunter pet buffed all hunter pets. Buffing a warlock pet buffed all warlock pets.

There was a bug for a short time that would combine player warriors and hunter pets, and pallys and warlock pets, but it was fixed. Wish i could give you some accurate tested data but i cant. If the bug exists in this version of classic, than that would be great for warlock pally teams.

Recasting GBoS would be an option if it wasn't so damn expensive... Maybe in an emergency and/or if it was going to run out during the fight anyway. I guess you could spam GBoKs till you get threat back and then reapply GBoS but still more expensive than I would like.

Thankfully there are multiple others who are already at cap and hopefully can give some insight. Any 60 Paladin with 2 or more Warlocks with pets (even lower level) can likely verify.

If it doesn't work with Pets then dual Pally with Mages is likely the best but it would be great if single Pally can pull it off with Warlocks and any healer as Priests just make a lot of sense (especially Warlocks).

These are amazing numbers so very interested.

Would really like to know before leveling up 3+ Warlocks or 3+Mages (or both).
10-27-2019, 08:37 AM
Apatheist

I made my mage team with a paladin and 4 mages since I prefer paladin healers anyway and I already have a priest on that account. I'll have to do some testing with this after I level a bit.

I use the paladin to "tank" (it's holy) and kite mobs around in 4 blizzards and basically take zero damage. I can see this being a useful tool for being able to maintain aggro between consecrates.
10-27-2019, 02:16 PM
nodoze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apatheist

I made my mage team with a paladin and 4 mages since I prefer paladin healers anyway and I already have a priest on that account. I'll have to do some testing with this after I level a bit.

I use the paladin to "tank" (it's holy) and kite mobs around in 4 blizzards and basically take zero damage. I can see this being a useful tool for being able to maintain aggro between consecrates.

Very glad to hear as I like the idea of self-healing tanks.

Do you have your 4Locks+Priest on the same server as your 2Paladins+Warriors and if yes can you test the interaction of Greater Blessings with pets/party (like Paladin+Priest+3Locks+3Pets)?

Would really like to know if you cast Greater Blessing of Kings on the Pets whether it over-writes Greater Blessing of Salvation on the Warlocks &/or Priest.

Regardless Please report back any lessons learned trying this at cap with any party composition.
10-27-2019, 02:47 PM
Apatheist

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodoze

Would really like to know if you cast Greater Blessing of Kings on the Pets whether it over-writes Greater Blessing of Salvation on the Warlocks &/or Priest.

It doesn't. Pets count as their own entity with their own buff table.

Warrior shouts apply to all party members within range. Greater blessings only apply to the specific class and treat pets as a class for the purposes of receiving the buff. If you GBoK one warlock pet, it applies to all warlock pets even if you have different pets summoned.

I don't have a hunter so I can't test whether the same is true between warlock and hunter pets.
10-27-2019, 06:24 PM
Moorea

regular blessings can’t be cast on phased imps, dunno yet about greater inherited from other pets but you won’t be able to cast on a phased imp, you can maybe unphase one and end up buffing all of them, not sure
10-27-2019, 07:41 PM
nodoze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apatheist

It doesn't. Pets count as their own entity with their own buff table.

Warrior shouts apply to all party members within range. Greater blessings only apply to the specific class and treat pets as a class for the purposes of receiving the buff. If you GBoK one warlock pet, it applies to all warlock pets even if you have different pets summoned.

I don't have a hunter so I can't test whether the same is true between warlock and hunter pets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moorea

regular blessings can’t be cast on phased imps, dunno yet about greater inherited from other pets but you won’t be able to cast on a phased imp, you can maybe un-phase one and end up buffing all of them, not sure

Thanks! You both rock!

If anyone can verify whether phased imps get the Greater Blessing if an un-phased imp or voidwalker/etc get a Greater Blessing that would be great.

I ask because I am thinking of testing 10boxing something like PaladinTank+PriestHealer+8Warlocks+8pets;

On dungeons limited to 5 characters I would drop to PaladinTank+PriestHealer+3Warlocks+3pets;

I would like to initially try having an offtank Voidwalker out +7imps (sometime phased). Maybe move to 8 imps depending on how testing goes.

If it works like I am hoping most (if not all) of the Warlocks should have -50% aggro due to Salvation & master demonologist. The Paladin will self-heal as much as possible with the priest off-healing (and stepping in to main heal if/as needed).
10-30-2019, 09:26 AM
nodoze

Still hoping someone can verify whether phased imps get the Greater Blessing (GB) if an un-phased imp or voidwalker/etc get a Greater Blessing.

All that should be needed to test this is 1 Paladin at cap with any GB and 2+ Warlocks with 2 imps (one phased and one not phased).

A secondary test would be 1 Paladin at cap with any GB and 2+ Warlocks (1+ Voidwalker & 1+ phased imp).

If the Phased imps get it when the non-phased imp (or Void) gets it then this is crazy good...

Assuming low level pets can be the target of Greater Blessings, it may be OK for one or more of the Warlocks to even be low level as I think Warlocks can get imps at level 1/2 (though I am not sure at what level imps can phase).
12-04-2019, 10:57 PM
Moorea

I reached 52 and got GBoMight and tested and neither work, phased imp doesn't get any blessing at all even when done to another out of phase imp

edit: tried many combo, never get a blessing on even unphased imps
ditto with 2 felhunters, only the targeted one gets the buff somehow (if I target my locks, they both get the buff)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodoze

Still hoping someone can verify whether phased imps get the Greater Blessing (GB) if an un-phased imp or voidwalker/etc get a Greater Blessing.

All that should be needed to test this is 1 Paladin at cap with any GB and 2+ Warlocks with 2 imps (one phased and one not phased).

A secondary test would be 1 Paladin at cap with any GB and 2+ Warlocks (1+ Voidwalker & 1+ phased imp).

If the Phased imps get it when the non-phased imp (or Void) gets it then this is crazy good...

Assuming low level pets can be the target of Greater Blessings, it may be OK for one or more of the Warlocks to even be low level as I think Warlocks can get imps at level 1/2 (though I am not sure at what level imps can phase).
12-05-2019, 01:18 AM
nodoze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moorea

I reached 52 and got GBoMight and tested and neither work, phased imp doesn't get any blessing at all even when done to another out of phase imp

edit: tried many combo, never get a blessing on even unphased imps
ditto with 2 felhunters, only the targeted one gets the buff somehow (if I target my locks, they both get the buff)

Did you try with 2+ Voidwalkers?

It is really unfortunate if even 2+ of the same pet (with neither phased) don't get Greater Blessings from a single cast.

Earlier above I believe someone reported it did work so maybe the level 52 version works differently than the level 60 versions.

I tried with my recently turned 60 Paladin but my Locks and their pets are too low level to let me cast any GBs.

Edit: Found the post where it was reported working:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apatheist

It doesn't. Pets count as their own entity with their own buff table.

Warrior shouts apply to all party members within range. Greater blessings only apply to the specific class and treat pets as a class for the purposes of receiving the buff. If you GBoK one warlock pet, it applies to all warlock pets even if you have different pets summoned.

I don't have a hunter so I can't test whether the same is true between warlock and hunter pets.