Thinking about coming back to PVP

After they broke follow in battlegrounds I stopped playing wow. I had a very competitive 4 boxing team with my brother solo healing.

I played 4 dk's when it was popular and got 1920 rating in 5's
I played 4 pally's when that works and got to 1800 in 5's
I played 1 dk and 3 pally's when that was fun and did really well in rated bgs.
Elemental shamans before that.

So now what. I want to box 4 characters but what is the most viable when it comes to pvp. I will always have a dedicated healer. I was thinking 4 monks. I just have no idea what to play competitively at a high level.

What are your thoughts?

4 warriors / hunters / ferals probably.

Did you mean to include the [Rated BGs] tag on this thread? Because without follow functioning in any type of battleground, I can't imagine you're going to be very effective, or have much fun at all, in ,especially, rated battlegrounds.

Unless you were just looking for general PvP-related advice for either world PvP or Arena ...?

I guess he meant arenas. Rated BGs suck horribly to multibox now but are necessary if you want that 2200 cap (especially those first few weeks when it means getting the weapon a week earlier). You IWT follow on a vendor mount to a node or an orb, do something and get 25 points. Hold a node the whole game, or manage to get 2 orbs and you get 50-75 points. Get something like 1/3rd the objective (500/1500 points, etc.) and you get I believe 125 points. I think 150 or 200 is the max but your only move there is capping two nodes which requires splitting your team, not easy to pull of an can cost you even the 25 free points for the bare minimum if you go to the wrong node or get zerged and lose your original node.

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Back to arenas.

Arenas are a bit meh right now. Resilience is 80%, battle fatigue is 65%. In my experience as many as 6 DKs (in RBGs of course) have difficulty taking down a single healer even with 53% PVP power (human, all PVP gear, prideful weapon and 2-4 other pieces).

But that doesn't mean you can't be competitive(ish? maybe 1600?) with a good 5v5 setup. My best luck right now, and I'm only going for cap, is triple frost DK 3v3. The MMR is low and a large part of the success is because 1-3 of the players at low MMR are fresh 90s.

My opinion is if you're expecting the good old days of 1700-1800 being quick and easy and 1900-2200 being the challenge, you will be disappointed. I think it's mainly because of resilience being at 80% now without gemming - when it was 40% base and resil gems in every slot (before they halfed them) - 57%, it was possible to kill things without elaborate CC chains while avoiding endless aoe cc of several DR categories you can expect even an 1100 MMR team to use against you because you're multiboxing and it works.

Quad Enhancement shaman were the thing from the beginning of the expansion but I know of only a few who did it to a decent rating. That is back when ascendance was a 1 shot, instantly creating a 5v4 and the possibility of a second gib creating a 5v3 - then a ton of downtime. I consider Kruschpak to be one of the better and more dedicated arena players and I don't know that he maintained 2000. In this season I don't even know if quad ascendnace even globlas anyone anymore, but I could be wrong. Would have to ask someone what stormblast hits for; I do 3s every week and I think my highest obliterate, with both trinkets up and pillar of frost is something like 135k (550 weapons 52% pvp power) - stormblast may hit a bit harder than that but you have to get through 600k hp + any damage reduction and shields.

Without a reliable one shot like in previous seasons you're going to have to really, really outsmart the other team as far as CC whatever class you play, hope your healer is awesome and your hybrid heals actually do something.

But I'm speaking... these days.. from an armchair perspective. I don't check arena ladders for multiboxing teams, there may be some up there.

There is a comp I know of, that a few of my friends have seen, but I won't reveal yet - that supposedly re-introduces the possibility of a guaranteed first kill, maybe even a second.

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P.S. - not all PVP in WoW happens in an instanced box with downscaled gear and PVE gear procs disabled :) - For the longest time the PVP forums have mostly been about BGs and Arenas, IMO there are better games especially for multiboxing if you want ready-set-go PVP in a box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heyaz

I guess he meant arenas. Rated BGs suck horribly to multibox now but are necessary if you want that 2200 cap (especially those first few weeks when it means getting the weapon a week earlier). You IWT follow on a vendor mount to a node or an orb, do something and get 25 points. Hold a node the whole game, or manage to get 2 orbs and you get 50-75 points. Get something like 1/3rd the objective (500/1500 points, etc.) and you get I believe 125 points. I think 150 or 200 is the max but your only move there is capping two nodes which requires splitting your team, not easy to pull of an can cost you even the 25 free points for the bare minimum if you go to the wrong node or get zerged and lose your original node.

--

Back to arenas.

Arenas are a bit meh right now. Resilience is 80%, battle fatigue is 65%. In my experience as many as 6 DKs (in RBGs of course) have difficulty taking down a single healer even with 53% PVP power (human, all PVP gear, prideful weapon and 2-4 other pieces).

But that doesn't mean you can't be competitive(ish? maybe 1600?) with a good 5v5 setup. My best luck right now, and I'm only going for cap, is triple frost DK 3v3. The MMR is low and a large part of the success is because 1-3 of the players at low MMR are fresh 90s.

My opinion is if you're expecting the good old days of 1700-1800 being quick and easy and 1900-2200 being the challenge, you will be disappointed. I think it's mainly because of resilience being at 80% now without gemming - when it was 40% base and resil gems in every slot (before they halfed them) - 57%, it was possible to kill things without elaborate CC chains while avoiding endless aoe cc of several DR categories you can expect even an 1100 MMR team to use against you because you're multiboxing and it works.

Quad Enhancement shaman were the thing from the beginning of the expansion but I know of only a few who did it to a decent rating. That is back when ascendance was a 1 shot, instantly creating a 5v4 and the possibility of a second gib creating a 5v3 - then a ton of downtime. I consider Kruschpak to be one of the better and more dedicated arena players and I don't know that he maintained 2000. In this season I don't even know if quad ascendnace even globlas anyone anymore, but I could be wrong. Would have to ask someone what stormblast hits for; I do 3s every week and I think my highest obliterate, with both trinkets up and pillar of frost is something like 135k (550 weapons 52% pvp power) - stormblast may hit a bit harder than that but you have to get through 600k hp + any damage reduction and shields.

Without a reliable one shot like in previous seasons you're going to have to really, really outsmart the other team as far as CC whatever class you play, hope your healer is awesome and your hybrid heals actually do something.

But I'm speaking... these days.. from an armchair perspective. I don't check arena ladders for multiboxing teams, there may be some up there.

There is a comp I know of, that a few of my friends have seen, but I won't reveal yet - that supposedly re-introduces the possibility of a guaranteed first kill, maybe even a second.

--

P.S. - not all PVP in WoW happens in an instanced box with downscaled gear and PVE gear procs disabled :) - For the longest time the PVP forums have mostly been about BGs and Arenas, IMO there are better games especially for multiboxing if you want ready-set-go PVP in a box.

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I have a totally different experience than heyaz:
Damage feels higher than ever relative to healing output and healthpools, reason being that the secondary stats are so high, e.g. monks getting to 50% crit, ele shamans can pass 40% haste without much issues, etc etc ... On my mage I can spam icelance's for over 100k without much problem, shadow priests with 3 orbs do a shitload of dmg, ele shamans can nearly global people out of the blue, sub rogues can take pretty much anyone 100 to 0 in a dance with full gear, monks do absurd dmg, hunters do absurd dmg, warriors do insane pressure, unholy dk's are the kings of dmg, affliction warlocks with demon soul dots, enhancement ascendance is still taking out 60% of your health in a global ... etc ... every class has a spec that can do insane dmg with cd's.

The 6x dk needed to take a healer down in an rbg seems like a very weird example to me. First off seeing 6 dks together vs a single healer in an rbg is highly unlikely scenario, I mean on which map and where should 1 healer meet 6 other players alone? Any 2 dps can take out 1 single healer, unless a druid or monk who fly all around the map in 2s in a 2v1 situation to drag the game.

About rating: 1800 in wrath is not the same as 1800 in mop, simply because the mmr system changed. If you (on eu at least) cap 2s at 1700 rating you start running into gladiator level players. Not to mention that there is mmr inflation throughout the season.

Can't comment on the 5v5 part, put personally I'm working to get a 4x mm hunter and a 4x affliction team out, who I both expect to do well in 5v5.

blah blah blah
[redacted]

I'd really like to compete in this season but aint got the time at least until mid summer, however since this season is going to last longer than that I'll give it a shot then, according to all the changes and what I read on aj forums it shouldn't be much different than last season, perhaps caster teams are a bit more difficult now but overall it should feel the same, cutoff is still too small to get anywhere :/

even with titles beeing removed from 5s in wod I'm still excited about it, the recent changes look good for boxing with instant healing spells nerfed, cc and instant cc toned down, now just hope enhancement benefits from imbalance, and maybe blizzard adds some motivation to do 5s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4

even with titles beeing removed from 5s in wod I'm still excited about it, the recent changes look good for boxing with instant healing spells nerfed, cc and instant cc toned down, now just hope enhancement benefits from imbalance, and maybe blizzard adds some motivation to do 5s

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Actually they decided to axe trial of the gladiator, so titles in 5s are still a go unless I missed something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

Actually they decided to axe trial of the gladiator, so titles in 5s are still a go unless I missed something.

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yeah completely forgot about that

with things getting scaled down that patchnote looks good

• Stormstrike and Stormblast now deal 30% more damage when Lightning Shield is active.

What would make Monks viable or not viable? I am leaning towards Monks, Shaman, or Druids. I want to be competitive as possible.
Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sydwayz

What would make Monks viable or not viable? I am leaning towards Monks, Shaman, or Druids. I want to be competitive as possible.
Thoughts?

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Ring of Peace no longer Silence or Disarm enemies. It now incapacitates targets in the area for 3 seconds, or until the target takes damage. The ability now shares Diminishing Returns with all other Mesmerize effects.

Fists of Fury no longer stuns a target more than once per cast.

I'd say hello bright future for melee shamans, although we dont know anything about the numbers yet, I'd say enhance and ele shamans will once again be very strong for multiboxing, a good bunch of annoying cc gets removed while shamans level 100 talents are really good for multiboxing purpose. A 5 minute cd totem healing your team while dealing damage and the possibility of having a glyph for sham rage to reduce another 30% incoming damage will extremely boost our survivability especially against any rogue team in 5s where the smokebomb plays a critical role

stormblast oneshots also passively benefit from instant heals getting nerfed and with aoe ccs getting toned down grounding totem will once again actually be useful, ability wise it looks so much better than mop for us although I'm afraid that they will nerf cooldown stacking for enhance a bit, from what I've heard blizzard recognized stormblast+cooldowns as a problem so I'm actually praying for them to not do anything about it ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4

Ring of Peace no longer Silence or Disarm enemies. It now incapacitates targets in the area for 3 seconds, or until the target takes damage. The ability now shares Diminishing Returns with all other Mesmerize effects.

Fists of Fury no longer stuns a target more than once per cast.

I'd say hello bright future for melee shamans, although we dont know anything about the numbers yet, I'd say enhance and ele shamans will once again be very strong for multiboxing, a good bunch of annoying cc gets removed while shamans level 100 talents are really good for multiboxing purpose. A 5 minute cd totem healing your team while dealing damage and the possibility of having a glyph for sham rage to reduce another 30% incoming damage will extremely boost our survivability especially against any rogue team in 5s where the smokebomb plays a critical role

stormblast oneshots also passively benefit from instant heals getting nerfed and with aoe ccs getting toned down grounding totem will once again actually be useful, ability wise it looks so much better than mop for us although I'm afraid that they will nerf cooldown stacking for enhance a bit, from what I've heard blizzard recognized stormblast+cooldowns as a problem so I'm actually praying for them to not do anything about it ;)

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The prob i think ele is going to have as with all casters is the cast time added to all spells even shock's feels like its going to be a good Melee xpac to be fair

{other posts}

Monks i been trying to get to work and they just do not work with boxing the moment does not stack well and before you know it you got Clones rolling all over the place really painful class to play

Pallys look a good choice what i read and what i played at the weekend with a pac beta key.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ebony

The prob i think ele is going to have as with all casters is the cast time added to all spells even shock's feels like its going to be a good Melee xpac to be fair

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cast time on shocks? all I know is frost shock no longer shares cooldown with other shocks

thus far only a couple of instant casts (heals) got 1,5 sec cast time and any effects like NS/pom cant make cc abilities instant anymore which is the only downside for shamans, although I prefer not having NS hex over mages doing pom ring

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4

cast time on shocks? all I know is frost shock no longer shares cooldown with other shocks

thus far only a couple of instant casts (heals) got 1,5 sec cast time and any effects like NS/pom cant make cc abilities instant anymore which is the only downside for shamans, although I prefer not having NS hex over mages doing pom ring

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oh ya i the interview wrong sorry about that.


i olny had a 20mins in beta before they "shutdown" the server when they find out keys worked already. shammys was a class i did not try.

downsides thus far we lose ns hex and that chainheal+echo thing since its reworked and chainheal seems to lose healingpower with each jump for non resto specs,

http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=17364/stormstrike

holy shit ss down to 180% weapon damage thats not good

#edit

Yeah I read them, but take Stormstrike for example, WoWDB says that it's 180% in WoD, when its 380% on live, also bad datamine?
Those are ~equal, actually. 1% WD in WoD isn't the same as 1% WD in MoP. There were major changes to the way AP converts to WD.

well then no problem

edit #2

any plans to buff ele single target in wod since our cleave got nerfed also searing totem is boring when is that being removed
Yes. Not removing Searing Totem because it's iconic, useful, is movement DPS, and acts as a platform for totem gameplay.