WAR pushed back until "Fall"

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03-26-2008, 11:43 AM
Xzin

WAR pushed back until "Fall"

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/26/wa...ed-until-fall/

"Many orcs are putting on their sad faces today as Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning suffers another delay. Eurogamer reports that the game's producer, Jeff Hickman, stated the title is being pushed from Q2 until the fall. WAR's last delay, which shifted it from 2007 to this year, was blamed on EA's takeover of Mythic, though it did affordthe company more time to polish the title.

The only thing that raises a red flag about WAR releasing this fall is a little game called World of Warcraft and its expansion that many believe will hit later this year. We're just saying, if we were releasing a fantasy-themed MMO, we'd leave as much breathing room as possible between our game and any WoW release."
03-26-2008, 12:02 PM
Xzin

I wouldn't be so hasty yet.
03-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Ellay

The push backs are definitely good for fine tuning, having to go up against the WoW expansion though is another story. Best of luck to them though, at first glance it looked VERY multi-boxer friendly so anything giving us more options is always welcomed.
03-26-2008, 12:10 PM
�eceased

Hmm don't think it's doomed rly.. So many ppl I know playing wow can't wait to get out of the game :P except they are too addicted to not play, just like me :P
03-26-2008, 01:53 PM
Aradar

Quote:

Originally Posted by '�eceased',index.php?page=Thread&postID=46993#post 46993

Hmm don't think it's doomed rly.. So many ppl I know playing wow can't wait to get out of the game :P except they are too addicted to not play, just like me :P

Yeah, I'll definately try it but it would have to be far superior to WoW for me to walk away. I've got too much invested in WoW to switch to something that isn't a big improvement and I can't imagine playing both. On the other hand I've begun to find WoW pretty boring since I don't/can't raid, boxing has helped though, and by that time my "team" will be 70 which will likely determine if I wan't to stick around or not.

Also, if the next xpac and Warhammer come out at roughly the same time, I'll still try Warhammer but it's going to have to wait, lol.
03-26-2008, 01:53 PM
Eteocles

Warhammer: Dude...Blizzard is risking pissing off their players by speed-tuning pvp stuff that breaks pve and offering arena tournaments just in anticipation of us and to tempt pvp players to stay...and we're not even out yet...just think of what they'll do if we did release D:
Warhammer Dev: I GOTS IT! WES GONNA RELEASE WHEN THEY DROP THEIR EXPANSION! SURE MAYBE IT BE COMPETITION BUT IT ALSO MEAN ANGRY BLUE TROLLS GON' BE DISTRACTED WITH BUGFIXING
And this is where those guys from the Guiness commercials pop up and simultaneously say "Brilliant!"

But yeah...if they don't turn into the next DNF they're still gonna have to put up a pretty big showing to compete with Wrath. Every MMO I've seen that gets delays tends to do badly because while it DOES allow more time to polish, it also AGES it. Ragnarok being the prime example; RO was one of the first MMOs after UO and EQ, probably one of the more widespread ones due to the length of it's beta(And Alpha, which I participated in, before skills/extra classes/arrows/potions even existed lol); it got fairly popular and thrived well enough once it went live, and RO2 was announced shortly thereafter.

RO2 beta was due like back in 2003, 2004 around Feb. Feb came and went with no news and the English site being taken down to boot. It kept being delayed according to the translated Korean notices, and while it did eventually start(korean beta only, though that didn't stop non-Korean players from joining), most people didn't give 2shits anymore or had moved on instead of waiting. Warhammer's had alot of press time, being a victim of their own hype they need to release while people are still hyped and willing, waiting too long people will lose interest, or other, better things will show up and distract them with their shininess.
03-26-2008, 04:19 PM
Tonuss

My concern is that this sounds a lot like Vanguard. Pushing the release date back once, or maybe twice, a short amount of time is one thing. That would make it sound as if they simply wanted to fine tune things for a smoother release. But pushing back the release date months at a time with little comment, while boasting about the number of beta sign-ups, just doesn't sound like a company that has things in order and just wants a tiny bit of breathing space. They sound like a company delaying as long as they can in the hopes that what they release is not a TOTAL disaster and that they can take the subscription money and put it towards bug fixes after it goes live.

This is not a slam at the game. I am starting to get interested in it and I expect that a number of my friends and guildmates might be interested in it as well. But if they delay until they cannot delay any more, then release a product that isn't ready for prime time, it will be a bloodbath. No amount of "bear with us, just one more patch" will save them. And we really do not need any more failed or marginal products in this market. WoW is pretty much swallowing everything up, and that's not a good thing.
03-26-2008, 04:28 PM
Eteocles

I wouldn't necessarily say it's a bad thing, but that's only because of how WoW is a relatively solid game with a sturday fanbase and they manage to appeal to all kinds of gamers; raiders, pvpers, casuals, and even kids to some extent. Aka, the short of it, is that the "monopoly" as it were is one that doesn't suck at least; back when RO was the lead after EQ it was mostly because that's all there was. WoW provides alot, both base and additional free full-blown content(Entire new areas, rehauls, etc) to all the groups to boot.

So yeah...it may not be the best thing that WoW is so tough to go up against, but at least it's more or less worthy of it's "Unbeatable" title.
03-26-2008, 04:31 PM
Sentack

It's disheartening to hear this, as I had planned to Multi-box on Warhammer Online as well. WoW was intended to be my 'training ground'.

Honestly I don't like the delays. It's starting to get to the point where you begin to wonder if it'll be even worth it in the end. The game has a strong likely hood of crashing and burning like Vanguard. A shame too, it sounds like they have some really neat ideas.
03-26-2008, 04:38 PM
mackenziemi

Well to me, this is beginning to sound more and more like Ultima 9. I think it will come out and there will be innovative things in it, but it will be crap compared to whats available and it wont break WoW market share. Though developers will learn from it for years to come.
03-26-2008, 04:40 PM
Eteocles

No worries, WoW is like the borg; just like they do with UI mods, they'll take the lifeless corpse of Warhammer and integrate it's techologicial and Featurelogical uniquenesses into it's own... "We are Blizzard. Resistance is futile. Competition is illogical. You will be bugzappered."(If you need help getting the bugzapper joke, go read through www.gucomics.com ;p
03-26-2008, 04:54 PM
Sentack

Well really what could kill Warhammer is if WoW starts implementing some of the features we see in WoW that look 'impressive'. Things like City Battles, Public Quests, and Siege weapons. Siege Weapons are already stated to show up in Wrath of the Lich King. Should WoW pick up all the other impressive elements of Warhammer, then what will be the point of playing War? Most likely many people are going to be unimpressed with the visuals, find the numerous classes rather disjointed and uninterested. Class balance will show up in the for-front and ruin it for many players as everyone argues about the grass being greener even on the same side of the lawn!

It sounds like a fun game but, more delays mean less likelyhood of succeeding compared to the juggernaut that is WoW. And personally I'm hating it how long this game has been in the works and stamped with a 'coming soon', marker on it.
03-26-2008, 05:20 PM
Jaws5

:D death of good companies happens. Focus and control issues surface when the grow too fast. Many fo the support staff needed to devleop, launch and maintain a major title become to demanding for many companies.

Don't know if many here play the starcraft type of games, the best in my opinion was Total anailation (close) Two sides to play , Core and alliance. Air, navy, ground, off , def, total fun.
03-26-2008, 05:29 PM
Lyonheart

They should have just made DAoC2 8/
03-26-2008, 05:33 PM
Sentack

Mythic has been around the block at least with Dark Age of Camelot, but it's beginning to feel like more and more they struck some core issues with the 'master plan'. Kind of like what happened to Vanguard. It was all a great idea on the drawing board, but as soon as reality touched it, the whole plan turned into little pieces on the ground and developers were left scrambling to pick up the bits and fix it.

Total Annihilation was a much better game then Starcraft, in my opinion at least. But of course, a lot more people played SC then TA. Eventually Cavedog closed, and the spiritual successor Supreme Commander has come out with fan fair reviews but lack-luster sales (Or so I've heard). Seems like WoW has killed the PC industry all by itself, not that the PC gaming industry didn't shot itself in the foot to begin with a few times.
03-26-2008, 05:35 PM
mackenziemi

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Sentack',index.php?page=Thread&postID=47091#post4 7091

... Should WoW pick up all the other impressive elements of Warhammer, then what will be the point of playing War? Most likely many people are going to be unimpressed with the visuals, find the numerous classes rather disjointed and uninterested. Class balance will show up in the for-front and ruin it for many players as everyone argues about the grass being greener even on the same side of the lawn!

Speaking purely as a develop Blizz can, and will, adapt faster because they have already built their development framework. taking good ideas from other games and implementing them in WoW wont be too much of a problem. To me the only thing WAR has on WoW right now is the Siege city concept and more classes. Love ya Sentack but I disagree ,what WoW is really needing is more classes and gradation. I know I am getting tired of the same old same old. The other thing I think is they are going to hurt themselves with the graphics style that they have picked. People may make fun of it but one of WoW's greatest assets is the graphic's style they have chosen. It suspends the players disbelief whereas going with more "real" graphics doesn't and players find themselves finding things that look wrong. Which detracts from the overall gameplay experience.
03-26-2008, 05:46 PM
Sentack

I actually think WoW works well because it's limited the classes to the core set, and then the only Hybrids it has are all Healer Hybrids. I mean look at it, it's got 9 classes, a 10th on the way, and different spec options really help you diversify the classes. In general, Warhammer just has too many classes, namely because when the time comes and PvP hits the scene hard, class balance is the #1 concern of players. Everything else pales into comparison of overall class balance. Mainly because players talk themselve into a frenzy when an 'overpowered class' defeats them in PvP. It causes players to cancel accounts. And while lots of classes sound impressive. Too many classes results in the problem of balance difficulty. Their's even word that Mythic is already addressing this by making some classes mirror other classes fairly closely. Bright Wizard vs Sorceress. Witch Hunter vs Witch Elf. Warrior Priests vs Zealot. and so forth.

Too many classes means too many head aches. And I bet in the beta, mythic got some serious head aches already.
03-26-2008, 05:53 PM
thinus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'mackenziemi',index.php?page=Thread&postID=47108#p ost47108

Speaking purely as a develop Blizz can, and will, adapt faster because they have already built their development framework. taking good ideas from other games and implementing them in WoW wont be too much of a problem.

They have been doing it since day 1.

Quote:

To me the only thing WAR has on WoW right now is the Siege city concept and more classes. Love ya Sentack but I disagree ,what WoW is really needing is more classes and gradation. I know I am getting tired of the same old same old.

I am more a fan of a pure skilled based system ala EVE. I find the "class" restriction rather stupid and unrealistic.

Quote:

The other thing I think is they are going to hurt themselves with the graphics style that they have picked. People may make fun of it but one of WoW's greatest assets is the graphic's style they have chosen. It suspends the players disbelief whereas going with more "real" graphics doesn't and players find themselves finding things that look wrong. Which detracts from the overall gameplay experience.

It detracts from my gaming experience everytime I see a bizzarely shaped male Night Elf or a male Blood Elf doing his gay jump or a Troll's tusks doing wierd things to a helmet.

I don't see how a "cartoonish" style suspends your disbelief and a more "real" style doesn't. The more "real" the graphics are the better the suspension of disbelief would be.
03-26-2008, 05:55 PM
Xzin

Supreme Commander didn't do well because it had SO MANY TECHNICAL PROBLEMS.

I tried to run it (I was given several free copies with the hardware I bought) on my TOP of the line machine and it refused to run, saying that my tech specs were not good enough. 8800GTX and a quad core isn't good enough? There is a command to override and force it to play. Didn't work. Figured out it was because my system is in portrait. After 3 or 4 hours of playing and more crashes than I can remember, I haven't looked back. Sad too - TA was an AMAZINGLY fun game.

It is coming out for the Xbox 360 but has been pushed back as well. I can't imagine why........
03-26-2008, 06:01 PM
Khazrael

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'thinus',index.php?page=Thread&postID=47115#post47 115

It detracts from my gaming experience everytime I see a bizzarely shaped male Night Elf or a male Blood Elf doing his gay jump or a Troll's tusks doing wierd things to a helmet.

I don't see how a "cartoonish" style suspends your disbelief and a more "real" style doesn't. The more "real" the graphics are the better the suspension of disbelief would be.

I think you have a lot of good points, but this one I disagree with you on. Of course it's purely opinion, what looks good to one person certainly doesn't mean anything to someone else. But from my perspective, it's all about polish really. A game like oblivion, which has a lot of more "realistic" options (think of all the changeable options you have) actually looks worse to me, because the more they try to look realistic but can't quite pull it off, the more it looks goofy to me. I felt like I couldn't create a character in that game that looked quite right, or like something I wanted to play.

Whereas wow, it's less about realism and more about style. For the artistic style they have in wow it's executed so well that it looks great. The amount of polish that they have on the artistic style they've chosen is astounding, and I always enjoy the way the characters look, and feel like they look right and fit well into the world around them.

Thanks not to say wow isn't without its graphical oddities (the troll tusks through helms is a good one to point out), but to me it does have a large appeal over something more realistic.

More to the point of the topic, I'm still sad war is delayed yet again. One of the things that appeals to me most is diversity, and war promises a huge list of classes. We'll have to wait and see how that balances out though.
03-26-2008, 06:24 PM
sanix

I'm not a big fan of the cartoonish style of wow but it does the job in the context of the game.
I really liked the graphics of Guild Wars, too bad there was very few content.

I also don't like the PVP aspect of Wow where the gear has such a big impact on the fight. GW had it better imo.
PVP arena in GW was more about skills / strategies than gear.
03-26-2008, 09:19 PM
Eteocles

If you actually played the Warcraft series they're not "cartoony" on purpose...that's simply how they're designed. It's correct, for the universe. Warcraft was becer fully a serious game/series, as is evidenced by clicking on critters until they EXPLODE(bwahahaha) or poking peons until they feel sexually harassed and say as much out loud. Aka, it's fun ;p
03-28-2008, 04:41 PM
Attyla

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=47033#pos t47033

Guys -

Don't forget who is pulling the strings here. Games Workshop. Its there IP. These are the same clowns that sued online retailers for using pictures of there products to sell there stuff... for infringing on thier IP. And sued the same online retailers for selling for less then MSRP.

And also, the mother of all fuckups... turned Blizzard down a long time ago with this concept game that would later bcome the first Warcraft.

I love the Warhammer / Warhammer 40k universe, but the people at the wheel are arrogant idiots!

I don't know about the summary history involved, but GW isn't actually pulling anything. They essentially were given notice about 12 hours previous to the interview releasing the information.

I don't see it as an ill omen. But I do selfishly wish it would launch. And while I'm not naive enough to think that games are entirely produced on timelines that are independent of other timelines in the marketplace -- the fact is that this game really caters to a different crowd than WoW does now. Whether or not it launches on WoTLK's release day doesn't mean it's going to fail because the existing pool of MMO players that are expressly interested in playing it regardless is more than sufficient. Delaying will only mean competing with WoTLK with players that might otherwise choose either game.

It also means that Mythic understands their subscriber base, and is capable of bending EA's and GW's collective will to release now and start getting a return on their investment. Something that was a primary concern early in the process -- and intensified when EA bought Mythic.

If I were to liken EA/Mythic's target audience, it's probably the kinds of players that enjoyed WoW's early PvP. There are millions of players that no longer call Azeroth home that did not like/enjoy Blizzard's deviation from their original PvP construct. Just as there are millions of existing WoW players that are simply enduring WoW because of the dearth of other options.

Delaying the release for polish reasons does 3 things.

First, it allows EA to form a better first impression -- which I think everyone would concede is important. This doesn't ensure that the game succeeds -- just that it doesn't die a virtually instantaneous death. The recent release of MMOs has certainly demonstrated this.

Second, the first subset of their target audience is pretty much locked in. They are dissatisfied enough to not play WoW already. So nothing Blizzard does is going to temper their behavior regarding WAR's launch.

Third, it heavily improves WAR's ability to retain the second subset of their target audience: Those players languishing in a staid WoW. Those players are likely to pick up WAR whenever it's released relative to WoTLK. They're content to force other companies to "impress them" in order to make them switch loyalties/subscriptions. Delaying the game gives EA a better retention rate amongst existing WoW players that it can be assured will intend on giving WAR a go before making a final choice on where they remain.

Launching the game earlier really doesn't buy them much, except to lose box sales to the extremely tepid/curious WoW subscriber set that currently enjoys WoW and plans to stay there. Those players have a very small likelihood of staying with WAR past the first free month anyway.

In the end, I think waiting is the smart move *IF* the delay results in the polish that is now going to be expected. It has the disadvantage of raising the bar of expectation on release. In an environment where bad games already die quickly -- WAR is going to have to be heavily polished. Or else it'll succumb to the weight of lofty expectations.