WCRadio - Octale & Hordak vs the World - Antiboxer email

http://wcradio.com/archives.php?sele...783&autoplay=1 - About the 20min mark into the stream.

Was listening to this at work...they read out some email from listeners, and this one asks "I was wondering what your guys' opinion on multiboxing is; we lost to a boxer in pvp and made a forum post and got flamed for it; it makes pvp and farming unfair to the rest of us; BTW DO U PLAY YUGIOH LOL"

Their response: "Well ifyou wanna piss away $15-45 a month to do on 2-4 chars what players that don't suck can do on one char, go for it! Their output is no better than a good solo player's is, and it might sound a bit arrogant but that's because i'm not terrible at the game"; I believe this deserves a response ;) I'd like to see a lone player solo heroic anything or take on a 5man arena team at higher ranks.

They go on to discuss an EQ boxer who did it to sell ingame items, and how that's how they view "us" now, ignorant views.

Opinions, lolz, etc?

Just sounds like they don't know what they're talking about. Surprise surprise. I'd like to see the solo player who has absolute control of drops, farms 300-600 gold a day on dailies, has a DPS of 3k minimum, and solos their own dungeons.

Yeah they are calling 5boxing a perversion and all about account sales here

sounds like a job for Vyndree !

i guess since the haters got pwned on the boards, it's time to take it to another medium...

Thanks for replying to the thread too Pyro, I can't register from work but will once I get home...I already idle alot in the WCradio IRC and most of the regulars, the station owner himself included, knows I box nowadays, none of them have an issue(So don't look down on the site as a whole, it's a VERY large, very public radio community ;p just Octale & Hordak lol); I find it funny how the OP words it though, like a scathing, biased News story, worded over-professionally, not like a normal person would lol, "Perversion of gameplay!"

On a related note, edit yet post and add a line regarding the account selling, stating that most if not all of us frown upon it, and that one of our members did the math, and it came out to be LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE to ebay via multiboxing. We do it for fun, the challenge, or to simply be hermits in an MMO(As if everyone doesn't fucking solo anyways, fuckin hypocrites)

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Originally Posted by 'Eteocles',index.php?page=Thread&postID=44724#post 44724

Their response: "Well ifyou wanna piss away $15-45 a month to do on 2-4 chars what players that don't suck can do on one char, go for it! Their output is no better than a good solo player's is, and it might sound a bit arrogant but that's because i'm not terrible at the game";

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/rofl. Sounds to me like these guys are hatin' on it for no good reason. $5 says they're raiders who've been jipped on dkp repeatedly.

The whole thing is pretty ignorant. Who the hell sells their multiboxing accounts? You can make so much more farming dailies, shards, and arena teams than you can with how long it takes to level a character.

yeah I think thats the thing most non boxers dont realize multiboxing a full group to 70 isnt something that takes 2 days or a week... it takes a good long time to get to 70 x 5.

I thought grinding in DAOC was a pain.... 5 boxing in wow frustrates me on the leveling aspect, I HATE COLLECTION QUESTS!

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Originally Posted by 'PyrostasisTDK',index.php?page=Thread&postID=44867 #post44867

yeah I think thats the thing most non boxers dont realize multiboxing a full group to 70 isnt something that takes 2 days or a week... it takes a good long time to get to 70 x 5.

I thought grinding in DAOC was a pain.... 5 boxing in wow frustrates me on the leveling aspect, I HATE COLLECTION QUESTS!

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My leveling to 60 was very fast, mostly in instances. Once at 60 it started slowing down. I did it this way:

Hellfire quests and the instances (Ramps and BF)
Zangar quests and instances (Underbog and Slave Pens)
Terokkar quests and instances (Mana Tombs and SH)

I went to Nagrand when I was 68 and I dinged 70 before I set foot in BEM. I am probably half way through the BEM quests at the moment as I am just farming gold for flying mounts, about 500g to go between all 5.

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Originally Posted by 'Bigfish',index.php?page=Thread&postID=44864#post4 4864

Who the hell sells their multiboxing accounts?

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Hello, I am selling a level 70 alliance 5-man multibox on a US PVP server. The team is 4 gnome warlocks, (3 felguard, 1 sl/sl for spell-lock\devour) and one dwarf disc priest.

This is five accounts, and I am the original owner of all 5. I have the secret key etc.

The gear level varies, but all have at least 100 resil, the priest is close to 300. There is some s3 gear, but the majority of it is honor gear and kara loot. The priest has 1500 +healing and the locks range from 850-1000 buffed spelldamage.

All have their normal flying mounts, and there is about 10,000 gold between the accounts (15,000 short of epic flyers for all 5) I will charge more if you want the gold.

I want to sell these as a package deal to someone interested in multiboxing. All have their transfers up.

I am looking for $1500 for the complete set, and will not break the 5box up. If you're interested leave a post\privatemsg with an screen name and I'll contact you shortly. I will do paypal (keeping the secret key until the transfer is finalized) or western union online, and will trustwho verify\take other steps to establish identity as needed.

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That guy does.

actually, it sounds more like someone trying to set up suvega up as "selling" his accounts



Not a very good attempt, but you will notice all of his information can be found via the armory, if he had been smart, he wouldn't have generalized and used more specifics about each guy

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Originally Posted by 'Zseth',index.php?page=Thread&postID=44912#post449 12

actually, it sounds more like someone trying to set up suvega up as "selling" his accounts



Not a very good attempt, but you will notice all of his information can be found via the armory, if he had been smart, he wouldn't have generalized and used more specifics about each guy

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Unless...he/she isn't trying to set anyone up and generalized to ensure people don't discover who it is. Having Kara gear on 5 characters doesn't mean he/she 5-boxed Kara.

I see those people. They make more money than me, they have better computers and larger homes, sometimes even drivers licenses (which are extremely expensive in Europe, or reasonably priced, depending on your look on peoples driving skills) and they just cannot accept the fact that I find that $15x2 a month makes the game a lot more fun and interesting, and that I buy my movies, games and music.

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Originally Posted by 'Zseth',index.php?page=Thread&postID=44912#post449 12

actually, it sounds more like someone trying to set up suvega up as "selling" his accounts

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The priest has 1500 +healing and the locks range from 850-1000 buffed spelldamage.

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Doesn't sound like Suvega to me, unless they really want to lowball a BT/Hyjal priest's +healing and his mages somehow managed to turn into locks. Suvega wouldn't sell his accounts if someone put a gun to his head. ;)

I'll look through the thread and see what I can manage when I have some free moments at work.

Wondering if they ever thought about, what if someone doesn't suck at playing his main. I'm talking about all those multiboxers that have main in high end raiding guilds, or reached gladiator on more characters etc...
And they just multibox because it brings out so much more from the game.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=45136#post4 5136

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Originally Posted by 'Zseth',index.php?page=Thread&postID=44912#post449 12

actually, it sounds more like someone trying to set up suvega up as "selling" his accounts

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The priest has 1500 +healing and the locks range from 850-1000 buffed spelldamage.

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Doesn't sound like Suvega to me, unless they really want to lowball a BT/Hyjal priest's +healing and his mages somehow managed to turn into locks. Suvega wouldn't sell his accounts if someone put a gun to his head. ;)

I'll look through the thread and see what I can manage when I have some free moments at work.

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LOL Well put....
My priest in PvE gear with elixers and 10man buffed just hit 2500 healing last night.
With 2 trinkets and the ring proc, over 3k for about 15 secs O.o

And warlocks? Meh not yet, I like mah mages. They can cc and pew pew. Albeit they are squishy as hell in arenas, and after exploding one person they get ANHILATED. /meh

Seems there was a followup email to this in this week's show: http://wcradio.com/archives.php?sele...791&autoplay=1 - about 47mins in, almost Halfway through the stream if you wanna skip to it.

The emailer states he agrees it's up to the player's choice in regards to money spent; he disagrees with the lack of skill argument. Octale gets it wrong in his reply again though, saying 3 melee shamen would be easy to do while running 3 seperate classes would be hard due to hotkey limitations lol

He goes on to call us social misfits because we "can't field members" for groups/raids...I think it's time to go to their particular forums or email the show and set 'em straight, Vyn? =)

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Originally Posted by 'Eteocles',index.php?page=Thread&postID=46127#post 46127

Seems there was a followup email to this in this week's show: http://wcradio.com/archives.php?sele...791&autoplay=1 - about 47mins in, almost Halfway through the stream if you wanna skip to it.

The emailer states he agrees it's up to the player's choice in regards to money spent; he disagrees with the lack of skill argument. Octale gets it wrong in his reply again though, saying 3 melee shamen would be easy to do while running 3 seperate classes would be hard due to hotkey limitations lol

He goes on to call us social misfits because we "can't field members" for groups/raids...I think it's time to go to their particular forums or email the show and set 'em straight, Vyn? =)

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When does their show actually air? I'd be happy to "call in". ;)

I find that people generally have a hard time calling me a loser to my face. Particularly since I am anything but the stereotypical wow geek -- female, job, relationship...

I think they air on Saturdays, should be listed on their Show Info page on the left side of wcradio.com ;p I'm not too fond of thm now...only listened cuz I heard every other show's archives already, I get more enjoyment out of Vendor Trash and Max Speed lol

Either email 'em before/during the show, or hop on their IRC(I forget the address but it's #wowradio on their own network, not sure if it's still irc.wowradio or not, but they have a java chat link somewhere on the site lol) and PM to whoever they say is taking the questions/comments, usually Emtee.

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Originally Posted by 'Eteocles',index.php?page=Thread&postID=46127#post 46127

The emailer states he agrees it's up to the player's choice in regards to money spent; he disagrees with the lack of skill argument. Octale gets it wrong in his reply again though, saying 3 melee shamen would be easy to do while running 3 seperate classes would be hard due to hotkey limitations lol

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Yeah, that made me go "lolwut?" I play 5 different classes, and am working up the other 4. The only relevant difficulty is in melee positioning, and all the really requires is an extra /follow in one of the macros.

I think what you guys are forgetting is how easy the game is when not multiboxing. While we have an objective view of both single an multiboxing, other people just have no clue. I remember before I started really researching, and specifically testing things out, I had a lot of incorrect assumptions about boxing. Things I can do in my sleep now seemed impossible (5 mans) and things that seemed easy are much more difficult for me (bgs). (*not elitist, just going on my own experience pre-post multiboxing)

Sent off this e-mail a few hours ago: http://vboxing.net/blog/webs.php/200...ordak-of-wcrad

(formatting is better on the blog page, and includes links)

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Happy Monday,

It's come to my attention that the subject of multiboxing has come up a couple of times on your show, and shortly thereafter a post on the wcradio forums.
Radio Show #1: http://wcradio.com/archives.php?sele...783&autoplay=1
Forum Post: http://wcradio.com/forum/index.php?topic=3181.0
Radio Show #2: http://wcradio.com/archives.php?sele...791&autoplay=1
I disagree with a few of the points made in these shows/posts, so I'm here to offer you an alternate perspective. I feel that many of the opinions generated during your show may have been made out of misinformation or lack of information.

My name is Jennifer. I'm a 22 year old software engineer at Microsoft (yes, the evil empire), female gamer (they EXIST?!), and owner/administrator of VBoxing.net. I currently multibox a combination of 5 from my 7 level 70's: 4 elemental shaman, 1 resto shaman, 1 protection paladin, and 1 holy priest. I'm also in the midst of leveling 5 warlocks (level 45), and 5 hunters (~ level 20). Yes, I am an altaholic.

I was also "the girlfriend" as mentioned in WoWInsider's report on the 2 multiboxers running Karazhan (quote from radio show #2: "If you're multiboxing, I can't imagine that you're raiding"), and the original poster who illicited this forum post from GM Belfaire on the official forums.

Now, on to the interesting stuff.

First of all, multiboxing does not make efficient money off of account sale, regardless of the fact that account sale is against the terms of use. It's just doesn't make sense. If you can afford the computer setup and account set up and subscription fees, then you really don't need the miniscule amount of "profit" you would earn. It's just a complete waste of time to work for half of the federal minimum wage. Not to mention against the game rules -- and who WANTS to get banned?


Secondly, in response to the radio show #2 comment, "I don't know why you would want to multibox anyway". WoW is not rocket science. Granted, certain aspects of WoW are challenging, but after you've seen all of the content there's really not much to do. I'll quote a little bit from my FAQ:
"From what I've come across, the majoriy of multiboxers don't see much of a challenge in the solo game, or even the raid game for that matter. WoW isn't exactly rocket science. In order to spark a little interest in the game again, they put challenges in front of themselves to make gameplay more interesting. It's not just multiboxers who do this. Like the naked troll project, or Noor the pacifist.

Anyway, back on topic. Multiboxers can use their characters for all sorts of things -- from making their lives easier by leveling with their own dedicated healer, to running 5-man instances by themselves, to PvPing in battlegrounds and arenas."


Playing a healer, dps, and tank is certainly possible. I've been doing it since Stockades, and my first WoW video was my 5-box run through RFK (4 shaman, 1 warrior). The reason why most multiboxers choose to minimize the number of classes/specs in their group setup is certainly in-line with what was said on your radio show. It is much easier to manage identical cooldowns and abilities rather than trying to synchronize multiple cast times, cooldowns, and abilities.

Most successful PvP teams stick to 1 or 2 classes/specs. However, there are PvE groups that are also very versatile in heroics and instances. Because PvE is scripted, you have time to set up various /focus macros and positioning prior to a pull and per each encounter -- however, there is still quite a bit of skill involved to recover when something goes wrong. Because PvP is less forgiving and more dynamic, it helps to cut out any distractions and stick to a singular role as you will almost never have time to prepare your macros for each individual encounter.

As for your enhancement shaman example, it's just not possible. If you didn't know, /follow breaks upon melee attacks, which means your positioning is just not going to work -- particularly in PvP. You almost never see more than 1 melee class in a multibox set up due to difficulty in /follow, the melee hitbox, and melee breaking /follow.


Finally, "social misfits". Just because you multibox does not mean you can NEVER break your group up to play with other people. Here are just a few examples of my personal experiences.
My paladin tanks Karazhan every week for my guildies.
I've run Gruul's Lair with 1/2/3 of my shaman.
I've done PvP premades with my friends/guild.
I regularly heal 5-mans with my resto shaman.
I do SSC/TK with my resto shaman.
I've sometimes pulled one shaman into an alt run of Karazhan when they're LF1M.
I've also been able to help out many of my friends' alts complete the Ring of Blood quest and Ogri'la daily attunements.
I've done Karazhan with just me and my boyfriend.
Just because you multibox doesn't mean you're alone. WoW is a social game, and multiboxing doesn't prevent you from being social. It just offers you an alternate playstyle that might work for some, might not work for others. Just because you leveled/quested/instanced/raided as a multibox group does not prevent you from splitting them up and playing with other people.


In finality, multiboxing is a playstyle choice that appeals to some people who otherwise would have been bored and/or quit. Multiboxing does not determine your social caste (I would say I'm a living example, being as far from the stereotypical WoW geek as possible). Multiboxing does not make you antisocial, or ugly, or banished to your mother's basement (in fact, it's more likely you've got a steady job in order to afford the computer setup/account costs). Multiboxing is not "ezmode" and requires quite a bit of thought not only to set up macros, but to execute them in dynamic situations such as mis-pulls, PvP, breaking CC/aggro, healing/tanking/dpsing at the same time, positioning, and reacting to multiple character's unique situations (ever had JUST ONE character get hamstrung/curse of tongues?) while in a self-limited set of controls (macros and /follow).

Hopefully that gives you a starting point to educate yourself a bit more on multiboxing and what it is before you begin commenting on misinformation. I'd be happy to do an interview and/or answer any follow up questions/comments you might have if this is a subject of interest.

Thanks for reading the wall of text. And if you didn't read it and just skimmed all the way to the bottom, shame on you.

-Jennifer
Velani / Velath / Velathi / Velarie / Velavi / Velatti / Vyndree of VBoxing.net

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Eloquently put, Vyn, me likey :p I'll keep an ear out and see if he replies on a future show, or if he replies via email, be sure to post it here for us =)

what i find funny is that u can actually powerlevel 1 character to 70 in less than 2 days.

multiboxer to hit 70? not 2 days.

if u were doing this for the sole-purpose of selling accounts, multiboxing is the most wrong way u can go.

To Vyndree and the Dual-Boxing.com community:

First, disclaimers and apologies. Ordinarily I wouldn't necro a month stale thread, but this thread in particular has demanded my immediate response for three reasons. First, there's an ad hominem against my person. Second, said ad hominem is an accusation against me for being a hypocrite. Third, a member of my listerbase sent me feedback, and I can't find it in our email box. This email points out that I have done this community a disservice. I won't sit back and wait until Sunday to address this (even though I am going to address this Sunday). So allow me to at least save a little face by dealing with some of the constructive points before I deal with this on Sunday.

Based on the timing of the statements on the show, I said what I said during the "cleanup" segment of the show. As some of you show vets will know, the cleanup segment is usually us reacting to emails. Now that I've heard the statements in question, I can at least try to answer for making the statement. Strangely enough, I can't. I took what was more or less a shot in the dark and missed by a mile-and-a-half. Listening to it in retrospect, I more suprised I didn't mercilessly taunt the guy who got owned by the multi-boxer and went to whine on the forums. That said, I do think the greater point was missed in all of my hyperbolizing (or ignorance, if you prefer). The point was this: It's *your* money, and if you choose to spend 75 dollars a month multi-boxing 5 chars, that is 100% your perrogative. Do I think you're a fool for doing it? Yep, and that's not going to change. Do I think there's nobility in being able to solo instances or 2-man Kara on 10 toons by multi-boxing? Nope, not one shread; that's not going to change either. If you choose to do it for the sake of doing it, by all means, do so. Ordinarily, I wouldn't jump on something like that, but for whatever reason, I did. That was wrong, and it's my intention to fix it Sunday on the show.

Vyndree, I'm quite concerned that I can't find your email in the show's inbox. We generally don't delete anything excpet facebook invites, and I've looked 5 days in either direction from 24 Mar, when you said you sent it. If you wouldn't mind, please send it to the show's email address again, so I can star it appropriately so as to not forget to deal with this. It's important to myself and Hordak that we get things right when we talk about them. Sadly, RL gets in the way of us knowing everything about everything, even about WoW. I freely admit to not giving credit where it might be due, and making some inflamatory statements toward the multi-boxing community, even though I suspect, based on my inflection and tone, it was done with some amount of tongue-in-cheek behind it. In any event, I've certainly done this community a disservice, and in one of the traditions of OnHVW that I'm most proud of, I'll call attention to it on the show, and correct it as best I can.

Regards, and Flame on!

Octale

Well-stated Octale and np on necroing it :p I don't really think it was TOO derogatory of a remark at first(and I'm one to talk about when someone voices their possibly inflammatory opinions...lol), but yea it did come off a little uninformed, mostly, and you admit that, much respect :p

I'll see if Zin can get ahold of Vyndree to re-send the email, she doesn't troll around here much anymore(that I know of, anyways) for reasons I won't go into here; will definently be listening to the sunday show to see how that goes ;p Most of us aren't really out to be "lololol look at me I can solo raid content in an mmo"(though there is at least some "nobility" as you put it, in doing so, because it's done differently; just like 3manning ony and being the world first of something from 70 to raid boss kills...and noone gives 2 shits about it a few days/weeks later in ALL of the above cases), but more that we're...trying to dispel uninformed perceptions, I suppose is the best way to put it.

Legality, time and skill are the main issues thrown at us and most of the time:
Legality: It's legal, bottom line; sure, it's 5v1, but people for some reason think the # of players behind that matters; you're gonna get ass-raped till you bleed if you try to solo 5 people, whether it's 1 person playing 5, 5 people playing 5 or even 10 people 2-manning each of 5 character(lol reverse multiboxing, multi-playering?)
Time: We spend no more and no less time on it than anyone else would, which varies from person to person; people play all day, sleep, and play more; most of us have jobs and play in our spare time, some play all day too, others rarely play at all. Boxing doesn't change that ;)
Skill: In Arenas, a 5-player 5man team will win more often than a 1player 5man team, simply because they can multitask and individually move, not be AOE fodder. The only thing boxers in arenas have going for them is focus fire which is easily broken via rogues stunlocking one and running around alot(alts don't turn on their own most of the time; stun the leader and the alts're stuck facing one way); in pve, it's like RTSes...micromanagement of mass amounts of skills in a limited amount of time. Trying to tank, dps and heal all at once over 5 screens can be intense :p Blizzard's builtin Macros and conditions help ease this strain but it's still by no means a cakewalk.

And by all means you're quite entitled to your opinions that's it's a waste of money; I don't consider 5boxing worth it yet either so I 3box, and we all play the game differnetly, even amongst boxers and non-boxers. It all boils down to we're all just players and all do things our own way to have our own fun :p

Thanks for taking the time to post man, lookin forward to the show :p I'm usually idling in the wowradio IRC as Drayth too if you wanna yell at me privately for any reason ;p

Thanks for the eloquent response Octale. I don't have a problem with people that think we're fools for multiboxing, or that there is nothing "cool" about soloing instances. I only have a problem with people that think we're:
1) Selling our accounts
2) Doing something outside of the realm of Blizzards rules
3) Doing something that can't possibly be thwarted by a group of individuals

"Disagree" with it all you want, that is your opinion and your right. Calling us cheaters is the only thing we hate.

cheaters or skillless ;) Multiboxing does have inherent advantages(slightly better coordination, focus fire etc) but comes with it's own unique set of disadvantages too; it's like playing a different class from what you're used to and not easier or harder, just different :P

I don't care if they call me skill-less... I just melted their face, whats that say about them? I just don't like to be called a cheater when Blizzard is all for it.

I know people that think add-ons in general is cheating. Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56916#pos t56916

I'm sure if Octale (or anyone else!) posted some of his personal hobbies other than WoW I could use the "fool" stereotype as well.

$80 /m for cable TV? WTF?
$xx for alcohol? WTF?
$xx smoking? WTF?

$xx (insert hobby here). WTF?

Everyone has thier on gig. This is ours. :P

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How about $149.99 US for a Hellgate: London Founder's account 8)

I hope noone thinks that I said/think multi-boxers are cheating. I don't, for the record. It's quite clear what y'all are doing is inside the ToS, EULA, and the Code of Conduct, and that's all that matters to me.

Oh, and much <3 to all those who have responded. I was rather expecting to get my head chopped off (metaphorically, at least) for coming here. It's always nice to be pleasantly suprised. ./salute

I didn't imply that YOU said we were cheating... just the other asshats in that thread.

I don't see the need to respond to that. If we go around flaunting the fact that we can clear heroics, etc. it will just get people pissed off. The reality is that we are not as powerful as 5 people (even though we take up that many slots in a BG/arena/instance), but we are more powerful than a single person, and that will ignite drama.

I'd rather have people pass us off as no-skill weaker-than-one-real-player. If it makes them feel better to think that, good for them.

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Originally Posted by 'Octale',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56922#post56 922

How about $149.99 US for a Hellgate: London Founder's account 8

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I purchased and played HG:L upon release and was not impressed at all. Have they cleaned up alot of its bugs and 'statless' items? Might be worth a second glance.

Also a nice big /SALUTE to the host of a great podcast. Thanks for takin the time to stick your head into hostile territory to clear it up :D. Anticipate your show this weekend.

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Originally Posted by 'aetherg',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56927#post5 6927

but we are more powerful than a single person, and that will ignite drama.

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No, no we're not. Our FIVE characters are more powerful than their SINGLE character. Nothing is stopping them from doing the same if they so wish. Don't give me the money argument because they could choose to only ever play the game while in a group of four other characters... just find four other like minded individuals.

/chops off head
"WANT SOME MORE CAKE, BITCH?"

Joking aside, kudos for attempting to clear things up. Not everyone can conceptualize what we do, why we do it and how it fits into the grand scheme of our lives. We enjoy, suffer, whine, cheer and logoff in frustration just like anyone else. We just have some things we can do better and some things we canNOT do as well as solo or normal group players. Interestingly enough, we're right smack in the middle as far as capabilities. We're positively lethal to 1-3 man groups in PVP in almost all cases depending on surprise, amount of CC, etc. Conversely, we're starting from a healthy disadvantage against full normal groups again depending on surprise, amount of CC, etc. It's a niche hobby within a niche hobby. Which is probably why there are so few of us around. :)

One other point I might add to your list of things to discuss is the common whiny assertion that blizzard doesn't ban multiboxing because we pay them 5x the monthly fees and so we have some kind of "pull" with them from a monetary standpoint. This is patently absurd as we (we meaning people that multibox 3 or more chars; dragging a priest behind your 70 warrior is not multiboxing) probably constitute less than 1/100th of a percent of WoW's population (1/100th of 1% of 9million = 900; I'd bet there are less than 300 multiboxers worldwide). As such, we are statistically insignificant to Blizzard's WoW revenue. Face it: if the 20%+ of the playerbase that whines about them daily can't get hunters nerfed into oblivion, why would Blizzard kowtow to the few multiboxers that exist? :P

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Originally Posted by 'aetherg',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56927#post5 6927

I don't see the need to respond to that. If we go around flaunting the fact that we can clear heroics, etc. it will just get people pissed off. The reality is that we are not as powerful as 5 people (even though we take up that many slots in a BG/arena/instance), but we are more powerful than a single person, and that will ignite drama.

I'd rather have people pass us off as no-skill weaker-than-one-real-player. If it makes them feel better to think that, good for them.

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Most people will form an opinion based on their own view through whatever color glasses they wear and stick to that as "fact," despite empirical evidence to the contrary. Since you can't change someone's mind who doesn't want to learn or become enlightened, why worry the slightest about them? Hey, don't get me wrong. I understand your sentiment but I'm just not going to voluntarily give someone else that kind of power over what I choose to enjoy or how much I choose to share that enjoyment with others. ;)

Octale, your clarification is welcome and appreciated.

Now, perhaps this is me being petty, but what really got me confused and/or upset was a comment (and I don't remember if it was you or Hordak that said it) about how two enhancement shaman would be easy. First, the bigger issue, is that very few, if any, MBers are doing this for EZMode. This is NOT EZMode - it takes more gold, time, and other in-game resources than solo does. This is for fun. And second, (this might be the petty part), it bugs me that people think we just pick any old character combination that consists of a bunch of quite powerful class / spec combos because it would be, again, EASY. Multiple melee characters are the hardest to play and would generally result in the worst performance since they would need to be constantly moved and otherwise micromanaged. Of course, any combination of characters has those problems in certain situations. I guess what I'm getting at is my frustration at the general lack of understanding about what we do and that it is an IWIN button.

It's not.

Also, I'd be a little more careful with how you express your opinions of multiboxing. I'm from the Denver area (and if I remember properly, you guys are, too). I see plenty of people who makes quite a bit less than I do spend much, much more than I spend on WoW each year spend on a few hours of skiing and no one EVER calls them out for it. I honestly think that people's reaction to the money and other resources that we put into MBing is more or less a reaction to the fact that WoW has just barely gone mainstream and MBing is the new 'no life' target.

And while we're at it, I'm on Icecrown US along with you and apparently a few other WoW Radio hosts. Just thought I'd mention it while you're here.

Again, thanks for the clarification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Octale',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56861#post56 861

Do I think you're a fool for doing it? Yep, and that's not going to change. Do I think there's nobility in being able to solo instances or 2-man Kara on 10 toons by multi-boxing? Nope, not one shread; that's not going to change either. If you choose to do it for the sake of doing it, by all means, do so.

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I like the pot shot at calling us fools. Doesn't the same apply to most anyone playing WoW? The people spending 40 hours a week, half of it raiding, on a game? The people who put so much time and effort in to arena? The people who just grind their way to mounds of gold.?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Maat',index.php?page=Thread&postID=45381#post4538 1

Wondering if they ever thought about, what if someone doesn't suck at playing his main. I'm talking about all those multiboxers that have main in high end raiding guilds, or reached gladiator on more characters etc...
And they just multibox because it brings out so much more from the game.

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Not trying to brag or anything like that but I was in a top 20 US alliance raiding guild prior to multiboxing. Point is that I am fairly decent at this game solo and by no means do I suck at playing only one toon. When I was introduced to this website roughly 6 weeks ago I was inbetween guilds as my former had just disbanded. My orginal intentions was to make a multiboxing team so I could start saving up badges for the new sunwell gear w/o having to rely on Pugs. Very shortly after I started multiboxing and realized the extreme fun and potential that was possible I more or less completely forgot about raiding altogether. I haven't had this much fun since I first started playing the game 3 years ago tbh.

Not to say that I don't ever plan on getting into another raiding guild but this adds a whole new aspect to the game that I hadn't ever experienced. For them to say things like "O Multiboxers suck so bad at playing they have to play 5 toons just to be as effective as 1 toon" is just completely ignorant blind hatred. They have absolutely no clue wtf they are talking about and tbh all of you should really just shrug things like this off. They are venting their frustrations at the w/e is easiest to attack. They have never multiboxed and thus their opinion on multiboxing means absolutely nothing to me.

Now if Ellay or Vyndree or someone who has multiboxed to a great degree all of a sudden started bashing multiboxing, that would be something to get pissed off about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Bigfish',index.php?page=Thread&postID=57091#post5 7091

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Octale',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56861#post56 861

Do I think you're a fool for doing it? Yep, and that's not going to change. Do I think there's nobility in being able to solo instances or 2-man Kara on 10 toons by multi-boxing? Nope, not one shread; that's not going to change either. If you choose to do it for the sake of doing it, by all means, do so.

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I like the pot shot at calling us fools. Doesn't the same apply to most anyone playing WoW? The people spending 40 hours a week, half of it raiding, on a game? The people who put so much time and effort in to arena? The people who just grind their way to mounds of gold.?

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I was going to try to ignore his "fool" remark, but since someone else brought it up, I'll have a go at it, too.

In my previous post in this thread, I pointed out that he needed to be a little more careful about expressing his "concerns" and I can't state that enough. Attitudes like this are the reason there is so much animosity - the people who understand what we do hate on us for no reason whatsoever which, in due course, gives the ignorant and the other various haters a reason to get on our cases. Even here, now, his statements could give someone else room to mock us. Really, that isn't the issue so much as is the rare (tee hee) occasion on which one of us is truly harassed for MBing.

Those with a bully pulpit should watch what they say when they are wrong and even more when they are right (not that Octale is correct here) since the truth can be put so poorly that it can never be set right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Bigfish',index.php?page=Thread&postID=57091#post5 7091

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Octale',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56861#post56 861

Do I think you're a fool for doing it? Yep, and that's not going to change. Do I think there's nobility in being able to solo instances or 2-man Kara on 10 toons by multi-boxing? Nope, not one shread; that's not going to change either. If you choose to do it for the sake of doing it, by all means, do so.

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I like the pot shot at calling us fools. Doesn't the same apply to most anyone playing WoW? The people spending 40 hours a week, half of it raiding, on a game? The people who put so much time and effort in to arena? The people who just grind their way to mounds of gold.?

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See, you're missing the point again. It's *your* money, do with it as you please. I am not going to throw myself at your feet crying "mea culpa" for thinking spending 30-75 dollars a month to play the same game on multimple characters at the same time is foolish. Does it really matter that I think it's foolish? You could just as easily look at any of my expenditures and say I am a fool for alloting financial resources in such a way. That's your choice, same as it is mine for thinking paying to mbox is foolish (or perhaps, "a waste of money" is a better phrase at this point).

So, by all means, pick the one slightly negative thing out of a post where I, again, state in no uncertain terms that it is *your money* and you point that out to everyone; a thing that isn't even really negative in as much as it is my honest opinion of mboxing. Now, I've been about as nice about this as I am going to be by coming here, admitting that I was wrong, and stating to Vyndree (regardless of whether she reads it or not) and this community at large that I am going to take some amount of the scarce resource that is my airtime, and try to, on some level, make things right with this community. It's bad that a month has gone by since this happened, and I wish we'd have received Vyn's email such that we could have dealt with it sooner, but we didn't. So, I'm going to do the best I can.