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Level 10, came to pick roles...and I was a bit stumped...
Decided to go brewmaster, mistweaver and 3 windwalkers, found out quickly that the first ability the brewmaster has requires mouse targetting and might be better suited to being led with..
Has anyone got any experience on these yet?
How do 5 windwalkers fair against dungeons? early days I know but as people try things, let me know.
All the guides I have read say windwalkers for leveling, but thats probably not taking into account boxing. Bleeding edge, guess we get to figure it out :) I plan to do 3x windwalkers to start and will see how that goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dancook
Ok so I am doing this now and experimenting. I tried 5x dps and for dungeons it was no go. Just take too much damage. Then I tried 1 healer and 4 dps, still too much damage. I have swapped to 4 tanks 1 healer and it takes forever to kill shit, but at least I stopped dying. Monks are proving hard to 2 step macro so far. I'm not sure I will be able to use them well at 90.
If 5 DPS is fast kills, but you take too much damage.
And 1 Heals and 4 DPS is still too much damage taken..
And 1 Heals and 4 Tanks is too slow to kill things...
Maybe somewhere in between.
Trying 1 Heals, 1 Tank and 3 DPS, would be my suggestion.
If a two-step approach is not working for macros, you could try a priority based system instead.
Also, without key abilities... some classes are a lot weaker at lower levels, than at maximum.
I haven't seen other Monk boxing threads, so you're one of the pioneers...
Anything that does or doesn't work for you, would definitely help others.
Well I did a theory craft thread, but got no responses as far as help.
http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/4...stem-for-Monks
and yes they are only 16, so missing a lot of abilities. I guess I could try the 3 dps route, was trying to keep it simple between all the monks.
you get a lot more tools that help.. with talents, glyphs and abilities, you end up with a TON of passive healing and healing orbs dropping on the ground. And you will use them up because of the way melee boxing works. I am using the Tank..healer and 3 dps..healer only has the channeled heal so far ( got 15 to 22 in one ragefire chasm clear with quests ). I am owning it so far.
how are your hotkeys setup? Are you using a priority system?
I am doing it on separate keys for now. Jab..tiger palm and blackout kick 1,2 and 3. But later, when they have more skills, ill do macros and priority mix. I just have my healer jabbing for now..a macro with just jab and [nochanneling] in it because the only heal is that channeled one for now. My tank I doing the kegs to pull and the same 3 skills as the DPS for now.. it works fine. At 80+ they have a TON of skills and will need a refined system. They play a lot like feral and rogs, they have talents that give them free chi ( monk combo point type thing ) So it will be next to impossible to be perfect. It will be fun figuring it all out though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
Ok that is exactly what I am doing to heh. Except healer can also blackout kick and Tiger Palm. I think I might start my priority system now so its not a huge pain in the ass come 80.
I tried a priority system, it works ok, its just hard to use any chi abilities efficiently I think it might be better to do a macro with jab, jab, tigerpalm, jab jab, blackoutkick.. or some such. If you put chi abilities in a priority it will just use the one chi cost ability and never do ones that cost more chi. So i guess long recast spells and separate GCD would work?
Multi-step might be the way to go as well.
I checked out elitist jerks for a good monk tank priority and I left completely confused. The stagger mechanic is something I'm not looking forward to... after fooling around with my 4 tank setup i've been able to one shot every boss except that first ghost one in Scarlett Monastery. Too much movement, doesn't work well with low level monk healing.
Overall I'm not too hopeful that monks will work well at 90, but the expansion is young and I need lots more testing time.
Good info in those posts. I do however user ISBoxer, so I just put a bunch of cast sequences together and make one dps key spam them all. The difficulty comes in with using procs and no cooldown abilities that can lock it up with just that key being spammed. Now monks as you know have combo points and energy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khatovar
This provides another layer of complexity in that you can be resource starved and never launch your big CD moves because your 25 energy weak hit goes off before you get to your 75 energy big cooldown.
Just takes some clever use of cast sequence, I need to map it all out
I went with brewmaste, 3 windwalkers and I lead from a mistweaver. Cleared rfc and deadmines very quickly. Setup for a one button spam doing about 100+ dps at 16 with windwalkers, average throughout instanc
Can you give a little insight to people that don't have monks or don't have them > lvl 5? You lead with the healer since he has channeled spells or why? You treat the DPS as shammies since they need to stand and cast mostly with a few instants thrown in, but mostly stand? You use roll for the tank like charge to get him out front and next to the mobs, or do you just all walk up together? You think out a normal amount of chi/energy and just ignore it, it should work it self out, or do you put procs on the Jamba proc showing thingy? What about movement, if you need to move, do you just drag your tank following your healer and he gets pounded in the back (less defense)?
I lead with the healer, and use clique for click healing on grid 2 - and play the game of whack a mole. The channeled healing is pretty awesome at these low levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectronDF
When I hit space bar my tank and 3dps spam their energy/chi abilities along with 'interact with target'. I also use another key to roll just those four, which speeds up progress through he dungeon.
The tank is currently using key smash, jab, jab, jab, jab (reset=8) and another macro just for tiger palm
The dps use a combination of jab/kick and fist of fury. However fist of fury is channeled, so I think you might need to be standing still to activate it.. so to stop the monks circling the enemy, I have the arrow keys designated to controlling the movement of the 'slaves', so I just tap the down arrow.
The tank does pretty well to keep aggro and I have not had any o-crap moments yet, after combat the slaves auto follow healer.
What I am not doing is building up 30% ignore defence through tiger palm on my dps, and I'm not using the kick on my tank - this is ONLY because I'm being inefficient - but that's probably ok this early on, I've not long realised tiger palm buffs you and does not debuff the target.
I'm still rolling 4 tanks and 1 healer out of laziness, but I'm hoping to switch to 3 dps soon. Currently level 44, steamroll most dungeons except Lilian Voss. Jesus they made her hard, the last phase where she has physical and ghost form up she throws out this AOE that kills my guys in like 2 seconds. I think maybe I need to spread out before that phase hits, but my healer is nowhere near the tanks and he still dies as fast too. It's crazy.
Oh one thing to add: When you start doing the monk daily at the training grounds (teleport spell) you get a 2 hour buff that gives +50% xp! Freaking amazing when you are hitting dungeons fast.
Hi all. Bunk here. Long long long time lurker, first time posting. I wanted to jump into the Monk discussion.
- Loving 5x Monks at 52. 1x Brew, 1x Mist, 3x Wind. I mix questing and instances to level. Drive the tank. I like to one button mash a rotation an have one-off heals, aoe, or specials on other keys. It varies a lot based on teams and/or questing vs instances.
- Overall Brewmaster seems a little weak in instances. Mistweaver is looking very interesting. On tanking I'm not sure if this is lowbie Brewmaster or 5.0 "active mitigation" changes or bad down-scaling issue. In a lost longer post I detailed say ogre trash packs in DM being a little too hard hitting on the tank requiring blowing a lot of cooldowns. Healing seemed solid. I prefer Surging Mist vs the channeled heal.
- From around 30-41 group seemed kind of weak. At 42 Spinning Crane Kick giving both AoE damage and AoE heals transformed the group to epic fun. Example fun are elite/non-elite trash packs in Strat. Open with Dizzying Haze and then SCK away! Strat body pulls and adds, MORE SCK!
- Glyph of Surging Mist and Surging Mist at 34 is very interesting. For me this made "melee healer" (plus the SCK at 42) work much much better. It will be very interesting to see if a Mistweaver with this glyph will be my go-to multibox healer.
- Here are the rotations I'm running with now. Not perfect but...
Windwalker: /a focus /castsequence reset=combat/target Jab, Tiger Palm, Tiger Palm, Jab, Blackout Kick, Jab, Chi Wave, Disable
Mistweaver: /a focus /castsequence reset=combat/target Jab, Jab, Blackout Kick, Jab, Jab, Chi Wave, Surging Mist
Brewmaster: /castsequence reset=combat/target Tiger Palm, Tiger Palm, Tiger Palm, Disable, Jab, Jab, Blackout Kick
- With 5.0 and MoP 5x boxing continues to be super fun me. I love having the new Monk class team and the other Bunks are just starting to chip away at Pandaria.
- Of note is the vendors that sell ilvl 372 gear "sets" in MoP. Items named "Faded Forest". A lot of my teams were either geared poorly or I wanted to change specs say melee to caster. Heck for fun last night I wanted to take a break from the Monks so I picked up a full set of faded forest gear for a holy priest, 3x hunters, and prot pally and ran TotJS. Wiped a lot on final boss but fun nonetheless.
This is how I feel as well.. not sure what it is but the bosses in instaces in the 30s take my team out fast, due to the tank being squishy. I have run those same instances with warrrior,paly and druid tanks many times during this, and past, RaF runs, and never felt so squishy with any of those tanks. I have a feeling that this was a balance issue of them balancing this new class for level 90. Hell, i remember doing teams in some of these instances with all dps and doing better lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk
That being said, i am having a lot of fun with them, and will keep checking back to see how yall are doing 8)
If you keep clicking 'healing mist' it seems to heal quicker, like you keep resetting the tick. Let me know what people think
at level 30 my spam priority hits these macros
Brewmaster
Code:/castsequence reset=8 Jab, Keg Smash, Jab, Jab, Jab, Jab
/startattack
Code:/castsequence reset=combat Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, Blackout Kick
/startattack
Code:/cast Touch of Death (x 8)
Code:/castsequence [combat] Guard, Expel Harm, Zen Sphere, Expel Harm
Windwalker
Code:/stopmacro [channeling]
/cast Fists of Fury
Code:/stopmacro [channeling]
/cast jab
/startattack
Code:/stopmacro [channeling]
/castsequence reset=combat Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, Blackout Kick
/startattack
Code:/stopmacro [channeling]
/cast Touch of Death (x 8)
Code:/stopmacro [channeling]
/castsequence [combat] Zen Sphere, Expel Harm
Starting to wonder whether i should just give them all chi wave...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancook
I like this setup..going to give it a try. Putting the Chi abilities in a macro might help keep from watsing Chi.
what is this? "/cast Touch of Death (x 8)" the x8 at the end? .. you just shorting a castsequence? ie.. /castsequence ToD,ToD,ToD......etc?
In isboxer I repeat the macro 8 times, to increase the likelyhood it will go off when I'm spamming all the macros at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyonheart
Just to explain a few macros.
Since I spam this as I'm going towards the target with IWT - I don't want Keg Smash to blow before I get to the mob, so it will wait for the jab which requires melee range. It also gives the mobs a moment to come closer.
Just realised this macro doesn't work as expect, I need to put Zen Sphere AFTER Expel Harm, so that it doesn't go off again for at least 15 seconds. I'll also have to take a quick look at the brewmaster's version....Code:/castsequence reset=8 Jab, Keg Smash, Jab, Jab, Jab, Jab
/startattack
This may not be perfect, but the reset on combat helps keep the tiger buff stack going if you move from mob to mob quickly enough.Code:/castsequence [combat] Zen Sphere, Expel Harm
Code:/castsequence reset=combat Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, Blackout Kick
Good stuff.. im on my main team for now.. but I'll mess around with these later. Thats what this thread is for..prob wont get a good one, that is worthy of Khats macro thread, until we have some tried and tested 90 Monks..work in progress 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by dancook
I think this will do for the tank, for now.Code:/castsequence [combat] Guard, Expel Harm, Zen Sphere, Expel Harm, Zen Sphere
I also use Chi Burst on my healer.
I just hit 46-49 tonight and got SCK! its OP.. i mean you go from having to pull packs all safe like, to just mowing them down in seconds and staying healed the whole time..the healers SCK is the best emergancy heal as well at this level. I'm using your macros Dan, and they are working great so far. I took expel harm out of them, seems to waste energy. Dont really need it now. I have it as an emergancy self heal now on seperate key. I also have chi wave on every toon..does nice damage and helps keep everyone topped off 8)
I finished vanilla by doing LBRS. Was very painful. Dinged 58 and headed for Outlands. Swapped out about 3/4 of my non-BoA vanilla gear via questing and decided to hit Ramps and BF at 61/62. Indeed as Lyonheart notes Spinning Crane Kick is amazing. Here is my new rotation on Brew, Mist, and Wind:
/cast [nochanneling] Spinning Crane Kick
When I started getting the Outland gear SCK felt good. But the real fun was going start to finish on all trash and bosses in Ramps, BF, UB, SP just AoEing everything. EVERYTHING! I'll still open with Dizzying Haze and Keg Smash but then it's all SCK on all 5 toons. Tank seems to hold agro fine, heals are good even on bosses, and the DPS might be a tad slower than single target but the fun factor is just over-the-top. The SCK glyph lets you walk at normal speed while channelling SCK. With DH you can do a lot of range pulls and just AoE away which is very nice for questing.
I tried to A/B "normal" DPS and healing with SCK and it's far easier to just SCK than to do melee healing. Both work but SCK is just a hoot. I'm still iffy on melee healing due to GCD issues and cutting the healer out of the DPS key rotation. Amazingly healer is doing DPS on par with Wind. Tank DPS is about 15% lighter than other.
Vanilla LBRS made my monks cry. Outland is...kicking!!! lol
I got this glyph, not tried it yet
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=112463/...g-serpent-kick
It might make it more usable for boxers.
I used it in beta. it helps for sure!
Update at 74. Outlands finished strong with questing and MT, Crypts, and Durnholde all falling victim to 5x SCK (1x Brew, 1x Mist, 3x Wind). 68 Northrend. Did the usual questing to update non-BoAs to NR ilvl gear then did single instances runs as they became available in random dungeon finder. Otherwise continued questing. UK, Nexus, and AN all easy enough. I did feel when I ran UK that the tank was taking a lot of damage on trash so I just kept the SCK rolling on all trash. The DPS from SCK now feels somewhat lighter and for single targets (bosses et. al.) I'm now doing a standard rotation. For questing and trash SCK spam is still a lot of fun. On say Nexus and AN a little later with a full transition to NR ilvl blues/greens I felt that melee healing was working pretty good. I have the 3x Winds doing Chi Waves which helps a out.
Couple random things:
- A full "standard group" (Tank, Healer, 3x DPS) that can pour out AoE dmg and have the tank maintain agro trivializes a lot of stuff. Example, last boss in AN the little adds, any non-elite spawns say in Crypts all the "clones" that appear.
- Jab on Mist takes mana.
- Enlightment is the best buff ever. Trying to really use it wisely everyday or on the mod-10 double dips.
So far, I have to say of all my teams that overall Monks are very high on the fun list. It's kind of like a DK tank, holy priest, and 3x mages. DK dropping DnD vs Dizzying Haze and then AoE threat with SCK. Mist doing SCK aka Priest spamming Prayer of Healing. Mages doing Arcane Explosions vs Wind SCK.
good stuff guys, i really appreciate the hard work and research you guys are putting in, it sure will make my life easier.
KUDOS 2 u guys!!!!
Update at 82. Finished Wrath feeling that the Monk team was still looking good. Historically I had to push teams through most of Icecrown to ding 80 but with the XP changes I finished 80 in the Storm Peaks at the end of the long quest chain(s) “They Took Our Men”. In addition to the Wrath instances mentioned above I did single runs through OK, DTK, Gun and HoS. Final boss at Gun was difficult.
80 Hyjal picked up two plus levels. Oddly fully questing Hyjal does not yield a full set of replacement Cata ilvl gear for either DPS or caster. I kept waiting to fill out my kit before doing any instances but it didn’t happen. I purchased a couple items for healer and then hit BRC and I’ll probably do VP at some point. BRC at 82 was easy enough sans Corla. I messed up and didn’t get agro on the one zealot I let transform. Wipe but second attempt was fine and other bosses were normal. Both tanking and healing seem pretty solid with maybe the tank still feeling a bit squishy. Single target DPS on bosses and AoE on trash continues to work nicely. I do think AoE healing feels a bit weaker now but AoE dps on trash still is fun. After all these levels I’m still a bit iffy on melee healing. Works fine on trash but hard to mix in on a boss so I have healer not DPS on bosses now. But it does work okay on some bosses depending on incoming tank damage. Hard to put my finger on it…squishy tank? Healer GCD?
I did make a short trip to Deepholm right after 82 to say hello to the Verlok Stand troggs. Was getting about 1.2k per kill. Doable but can’t be too aggressive due to tank. I wiped playing around when healer got stunned and was out of AoE range for a second or two. I think I’ll wait to hit 83 and then twink the tank with the MoP ilvl “Silent” gear available at 83. With Enlightenment the Troggs should be a good (but risky) XP grind. It’s harder to use Enlightenment effectively in Cata due to the whole “Questing on Rails” sequential questing you are forced to do in Cata.
Anyway, so far so good. I really like the Monk team thus far. Post vanilla they seem solid with a good balance of single and aoe abilities.
FWIW. Current rotations:
Brew: /castsequence reset=combat Tiger Palm, Keg Smash, Jab, Jab, Blackout Kick, Breath of Fire, Jab, Purifying Brew
Wind: /castsequence reset=combat/target/5 Jab, Tiger Palm, Tiger Palm, Jab, Blackout Kick, Jab, Chi Wave, Jab, Rising Sun Kick
Mist: /castsequence [nochanneling] reset=combat/target Jab, Tiger Palm, Jab, Jab, Blackout Kick, Jab, Jab, Chi Wave
I'll probably take the "target" reset out of Wind due to spec'ing into Power Strikes. I rarely see them stuck now.
Had an interesting bug last night, enlightenment buff was stuck at 0 secs left, but never left my monks until they finished dungeon and zoned. Great 40 minutes of free xp bonus!
That happens, I assumed it was intentional.
Monks are now level 50, took a break and moved over 4 level 85s to grim batol for a change of scenary
Did Verlok Strand for an hour and went from 83-84 with the Enlightenment buff. As mentioned earlier I purchased MoP ilvl “Silent” prefix 83 greens for the tank which pushed him from 60k-ish HP to 100k+ HP at 83. This helped a ton here. Fun group to grind this spot with optionally using Dizzying Haze for adding to pulls. Finished Cata with questing and did a partial VP run. VP trash and first boss were fine but had to quit the instance due to bugged Howling Gales on the bridge that would “turn off” so I couldn’t pass.
At 85 I did the opening MoP quest chain and got my new green MoP weapon and then went to the NPC vendor that sells “Faded Forest” greens and upgraded the team to them. Did a few quests to check them out and things looked good so I headed for TotJS.
In TotJS I started and sadly ended with many wipes on Anger/Strife. This is only the second time here. Prior time was a one-shot attempt using Prot Pally, Holy Priest, and 3x Hunters. That team was also equipped in “Faded Forest” greens and cleared TotJS to final boss which was then a wipe fest. But the Monk team just couldn’t handle Anger/Strike. Brew tank was getting owned, lots of AoE dmg that Mist couldn’t keep up with while spamming heals on the tank etc etc. What had worked so nicely just a level ago in Cata was now fail.
It’s a new encounter so I’ll reserve judgment for now. Need to look at both Brew and Mist a little more to see what I can do to improve in my main rotation and also the special buttons. The Monk team ended Cata strong and VP seemed fine so this scaling change or whatever in MoP with Monks concerns me a bit. My short summary after TotJS would be Brew incoming damage seems high, melee healing doesn’t work then, and regular Mist healing seems weak and OOMs. I think part of the issue here is a Prot Pally’s Faded Forest greens are true tanking gear (tons of dodge/parry) whereas the Faded Forest leather +AGI gear via reforging are probably a lesser tanking set. So without improved gear the plate tanks just get a better starter set which makes them look better. I’ll try to run a group with same healer/DPS comp but with each tank class using Faded Forest tank gear to test this theory (Real Soon Now).
On a positive note the Monk team continues to be an AoE leveling machine. Easily one of the most stress free class comps to level 46-85 once they have Spinning Crane Kick.
Bunk..what kind of DPS are your monks pulling?
What are "MoP ilvl “Silent” prefix 83" items? ... Nevermind, found em :)
So I was informed in my guild chat that my monks are doing subpar dps. Sigh, I hate figuring out new macros. I noticed I occasionally get stuck where jab will not execute. I am moving all my macros to hotkeys in WoW to see if I can fix it. I assume its because I'm doing lazy mans priority system. It's not like I am having trouble completing dungeons, but I sure could be doing them faster. My monks are 70 now and as soon as they hit 80 I might shelve them a bit for some fun in MoP with a team that I know works. I really like being a monk healer though, lots of fun!
I am leveling a 5x monk team as well.
Dan is right in that spamming Healing Mist will cause faster healing, and when your tank is undergeared, that's the only thing keeping him/her up. I was wiping in low level dungeons until I figured this out.
Monks feel rather squishy in general, but I am way way way under geared. So I went with 1 tank 3x DPS mostly to guide damage onto one character and also to prioritize drops to the tank.
My concern at higher levels is the amount of micro-management that may be necessary. Still, it has been fun so far and it's always nice trying to figure out new mechanics for a class. Problem is I will have to take a hiatus at 80 as I am in RAF and don't want to waste it leveling to 90 :/
I shelved my monks at 80, I can see their shortcomings already. Just not sure about their boxing prowess. I'm now leveling my rets to 90.