ruh roh

PvP

• Yes. We'd like to do make queuing for random bgs better by ensuring some semblance of healer balance between alliance/horde. For example, having no healer on your 15 person team when the opponents have 3 can have a huge impact on your team's chance of success. Also, we're considering more aggressively separating players with entry-level gear from everyone else (unless they're grouped with a player with non entry-level gear).

Curious how this would affect boxers, specifically the ones who box 4 or more.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

PvP

• Blizzard would like to make queuing for random bgs better by ensuring some semblance of healer balance between Alliance/Horde.

Curious how this would affect boxers, specifically the ones who box 4 or more.

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So if I queue as 8x healers to a wsg, horde will get 8x healers as well? Then I quickly switch to ele right before the game starts. Sure it will take ages to kill them, but they will never kill me lawl

I updated the actual quote as the one I first quoted was an excerpt. Valkry - I am sure blizzard wouldnt make it so anybody could just bypass the system otherwise hybrids would just get instant queues.

I don't think it will prevent a group from getting into a BG; if anything I think this will benefit those 4-5 boxing in randoms since you're more likely to actually get healers from other 5. Nothing is more irritating than a 10-15 man group of which you are 1/2 or 1/3 where there are nothing but drooling DPS idiots to follow you around and not help.

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Originally Posted by heyaz

I don't think it will prevent a group from getting into a BG; if anything I think this will benefit those 4-5 boxing in randoms since you're more likely to actually get healers from other 5. Nothing is more irritating than a 10-15 man group of which you are 1/2 or 1/3 where there are nothing but drooling DPS idiots to follow you around and not help.

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Aint nothing like a healer to solo guard a flag from 3 dps until help arrives 2 mins later... if it's even needed :P

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Originally Posted by valkry

Aint nothing like a healer to solo guard a flag from 3 dps until help arrives 2 mins later... if it's even needed :P

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Unless those 3 dps are dks... that chain silences, deathgrips :P

Exploit for goblins: queue up with your good gear in the bank and greens equipped. Enter bg with fellow noobs, pop the bank dude, equip good gear, have fun.

Wanna bet this will be possible when this will go live? :)

Probability, 80%.

I also noticed, and it something to consider, is that in that reddit Q&A, they where going to be looking at hybrid healers IE. Ele Shaman, and may reduce healing by them up to 50%. I'll have to find the blue quote again, But let us hope they do not do that.

Stephen

If that ever becomes a true concern, I'm sure the will make it so you cant pop bankers in BGs.

The random bg gear gap is not a big problem during the start of an expansion, much more after a patch. If you are a freshly dinged lvl 85 with 320 item level, you'll meet people in 400+ gear who can do 3,4 & 5x your damage, and have much more durability. If I ding an alt I want to learn how to play it in random bg's once I have all my spells available. Now you just need to eat shit for 2 weeks till you are geared, and then you can start to farm. There is no scaling.

A separate queue for lower geared people is a bad idea. It will be twinked, just like anything in the game.

A much better solution is an ilvl scaling buff like they do with dungeons on the ptr. If 371 is the ilvl from last season honor gear, 390 is the honor ilvl from the current season, and 403 the ilvl for the current conquest gear, make it so that if a quest green geared player joins a random bg he/she will have 371 stats. The player can actually start immediately to play/learn his character, and if someone takes a break for a patch he/she isn't way behind.

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Originally Posted by zenga

The random bg gear gap is not a big problem during the start of an expansion, much more after a patch. If you are a freshly dinged lvl 85 with 320 item level, you'll meet people in 400+ gear who can do 3,4 & 5x your damage, and have much more durability. If I ding an alt I want to learn how to play it in random bg's once I have all my spells available. Now you just need to eat shit for 2 weeks till you are geared, and then you can start to farm. There is no scaling.

A separate queue for lower geared people is a bad idea. It will be twinked, just like anything in the game.

A much better solution is an ilvl scaling buff like they do with dungeons on the ptr. If 371 is the ilvl from last season honor gear, 390 is the honor ilvl from the current season, and 403 the ilvl for the current conquest gear, make it so that if a quest green geared player joins a random bg he/she will have 371 stats. The player can actually start immediately to play/learn his character, and if someone takes a break for a patch he/she isn't way behind.

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Is it too much to ask someone who wants to PvP to get the crafted set?

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Originally Posted by MiRai

Is it too much to ask someone who wants to PvP to get the crafted set?

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On my server, crafted pieces sell on the AH for 1k+ gold per piece (when they're even available). What do you think a freshly dinged player would rather spend their gold on, 300 and 325% flying skill or gear that will get replaced in 2 weeks' worth of losing battlegrounds?

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Originally Posted by Peli

On my server, crafted pieces sell on the AH for 1k+ gold per piece. What do you think a freshly dinged player would rather spend their gold on, 300 and 325% flying skill or gear that will get replaced in 2 weeks' worth of losing battlegrounds?

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* 2 nights of losing AV or IoC in BG weekends. :P

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Originally Posted by Shodokan

* 2 nights of losing AV or IoC in BG weekends. :P

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Exactly.

The PvP blues are a sick joke from Blizzard. You can either farm for weeks to get the recipes yourself or pay through the nose for someone else to make them for you. Why they don't think that they shouldn't be standard recipes available to everyone (like the 333 tank/dps/healing PvE sets) is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Peli

On my server, crafted pieces sell on the AH for 1k+ gold per piece (when they're even available). What do you think a freshly dinged player would rather spend their gold on, 300 and 325% flying skill or gear that will get replaced in 2 weeks' worth of losing battlegrounds?

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Kind of how an addict would rather spend the little money they have on drugs, as opposed to something useful like the rent or groceries?

You mention freshly dinged but, how freshly dinged? Someone that just started playing a week ago with no friends and no money or someone who is on their third, or fourth, or fifth level 85 character of the expansion? There's quite a difference.

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Originally Posted by Peli

Exactly.

The PvP blues are a sick joke from Blizzard. You can either farm for weeks to get the recipes yourself or pay through the nose for someone else to make them for you. Why they don't think that they shouldn't be standard recipes available to everyone (like the 333 tank/dps/healing PvE sets) is beyond me.

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I don't find what you've stated as a valid argument because you're saying people don't have a gateway into battlegrounds to slightly even the playing field, when they clearly do (the Vicious crafted set gave over 3,000 Resilience). Then the argument turns into, "That's stupid. Does Blizzard really expect people to pay money for that equipment?"

If you have limited money you obviously need to weigh your priorities -- Would you rather fly around at the speed of light and get your ass handed to you for a few weeks while you build up Honor Points to purchase gear or would you rather start off with over 3,000 Resilience by paying a few thousand gold and fly around a little slower?

My Blacksmith/Miner was able to buy every single one of those Vicious patterns in a single week of casual mining on a high population PvP server with plenty of competition from players and bots; and from there on forward, she supplied the equipment needed to both my Paladin and Death Knight before they ever stepped foot into any level 85 battleground.

An alternative route from that would be to, I don't know, maybe find a guild with other people in it and try to meet someone who might happen to know the patterns... I'm just throwing things out here.

I mean... just because your neighbor owns a BMW doesn't mean that you deserve a BMW as well. If you were a carpenter/plumber/whatever, you wouldn't have to pay someone else to fix your house when it breaks. If you were a <insert profession here>, you wouldn't have to pay someone else to craft the gear for you.

Pay the market price, level the profession, or suck it up and take the cheap route.

(In before, it's just a game and it shouldn't be hard like real life.)

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Originally Posted by MiRai

Kind of how an addict would rather spend the little money they have on drugs, as opposed to something useful like the rent or groceries?

You mention freshly dinged but, how freshly dinged? Someone that just started playing a week ago with no friends and no money or someone who is on their third, or fourth, or fifth level 85 character of the expansion? There's quite a difference.


I don't find what you've stated as a valid argument because you're saying people don't have a gateway into battlegrounds to slightly even the playing field, when they clearly do (the Vicious crafted set gave over 3,000 Resilience). Then the argument turns into, "That's stupid. Does Blizzard really expect people to pay money for that equipment?"

If you have limited money you obviously need to weigh your priorities -- Would you rather fly around at the speed of light and get your ass handed to you for a few weeks while you build up Honor Points to purchase gear or would you rather start off with over 3,000 Resilience by paying a few thousand gold and fly around a little slower?

My Blacksmith/Miner was able to buy every single one of those Vicious patterns in a single week of casual mining on a high population PvP server with plenty of competition from players and bots; and from there on forward, she supplied the equipment needed to both my Paladin and Death Knight before they ever stepped foot into any level 85 battleground.

An alternative route from that would be to, I don't know, maybe find a guild with other people in it and try to meet someone who might happen to know the patterns... I'm just throwing things out here.

I mean... just because your neighbor owns a BMW doesn't mean that you deserve a BMW as well. If you were a carpenter/plumber/whatever, you wouldn't have to pay someone else to fix your house when it breaks. If you were a <insert profession here>, you wouldn't have to pay someone else to craft the gear for you.

Pay the market price, level the profession, or suck it up and take the cheap route.

(In before, it's just a game and it shouldn't be hard like real life.)

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Flying is helpful forever. The crafted set is helpful for a weekend. That's my point. Either the sets need to have a lower barrier of entry to bring down the cost or Blizzard and players need to accept that they're a waste of time and gold.

With 40% baseline resilience the starter set is irrelevant now.

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Originally Posted by Peli

Flying is helpful forever. The crafted set is helpful for a weekend. That's my point. Either the sets need to have a lower barrier of entry to bring down the cost or Blizzard and players need to accept that they're a waste of time and gold.

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It's usefulness really comes down to how much the individual PvPs and how fast they can farm whatever gear they're after. For someone that doesn't play very often and it's going to take them an entire month to acquire a handful of pieces, the set is phenomenal. For an avid BG'er like yourself (I'm assuming here), you should have everything you need within 48 hours after hitting top level so, the crafted set really doesn't apply to you and you shouldn't be concerned with it. No?

And for the record, I don't find 310% flying worth it as I'd rather spend the money on something else, but I have been known to be a pretty unique flower.

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Originally Posted by MiRai

It's usefulness really comes down to how much the individual PvPs and how fast they can farm whatever gear they're after. For someone that doesn't play very often and it's going to take them an entire month to acquire a handful of pieces, the set is phenomenal. For an avid BG'er like yourself (I'm assuming here), you should have everything you need within 48 hours after hitting top level so, the crafted set really doesn't apply to you and you shouldn't be concerned with it. No?

And for the record, I don't find 310% flying worth it as I'd rather spend the money on something else, but I have been known to be a pretty unique flower.

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The upgrade for 280% -> 310% is pretty lackluster, but the upgrade from 150% -> 280% is almost a requirement and is a pretty big gold sink at 4-5k gold.

I always buy the BoE set, cause otherwise I don't have any fun, and I just shut the game off. Especially when I'm on alts and it's late into the expansion.

Flying is more important now with HGWT removed, but I just leveled a team of 5 mages to 85, with 150% flying and it wasn't bad at all. I'd much rather have fun in BGs personally than fly faster. I have too many toons to be spending 5k gold on each one to fly fast... I'd go broke!

I hope they add some kind of change to pug bgs where healers are even on both side, too often on call to arms, smaller bg's there is 1 or no healers on horde side, and I have experienced this alot in the past few call to arms, smaller bg's. The unbalancement on healers needs fixing to make it even for both sides.

Thats only real change I'd love to see implemented for bgs (not referring to rated of course)

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Originally Posted by daviddoran

I always buy the BoE set, cause otherwise I don't have any fun, and I just shut the game off. Especially when I'm on alts and it's late into the expansion.

Flying is more important now with HGWT removed, but I just leveled a team of 5 mages to 85, with 150% flying and it wasn't bad at all. I'd much rather have fun in BGs personally than fly faster. I have too many toons to be spending 5k gold on each one to fly fast... I'd go broke!

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My problem is that a few of my characters now have 310% flying, and mixing and matching comps means that some toons will fly ridiculously fast and others will be flying at 150%. Most of the 310% flying toons are on my main account (the one with Ultra settings), so that means that if I don't want to have to constantly stop and wait for my followers, I have to fly using an alt (with low video settings), and then everything is just ugly...

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Originally Posted by Peli

My problem is that a few of my characters now have 310% flying, and mixing and matching comps means that some toons will fly ridiculously fast and others will be flying at 150%. Most of the 310% flying toons are on my main account (the one with Ultra settings), so that means that if I don't want to have to constantly stop and wait for my followers, I have to fly using an alt (with low video settings), and then everything is just ugly...

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That was a problem for people running blood dk + 4 shaman last exp

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Originally Posted by MiRai

Is it too much to ask someone who wants to PvP to get the crafted set?

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Apparently it is for a substantial part of the playerbase. The reality is that many people run around in green/blue dungeon gear after they dinged. It's a problem for me as a fully geared player, both when they are in my team and in the other team. Adding a flat ilvl buff that scales with content is a simple solution for everything.

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Originally Posted by Shodokan

* 2 nights of losing AV or IoC in BG weekends. :P

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On alt number 7 I honestly don't fancy spending my weekend in AV/IoC just to acquire some points so I can play the game.

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Originally Posted by zenga

Exploit for goblins: queue up with your good gear in the bank and greens equipped. Enter bg with fellow noobs, pop the bank dude, equip good gear, have fun.

Wanna bet this will be possible when this will go live? :)

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Or, simply stand by the banker in the major city, que up and when the que pops, get gear from your bank before accepting the que.

I imagine they will set it up to detect gear in banks to prevent things like this. Or base it off of the "epic" and "Superior" achievements.

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Originally Posted by zenga

Adding a flat ilvl buff that scales with content is a simple solution for everything.

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An even better solution would be to just start everyone off at top level fully geared with a starter set that falls about 10 item levels below the current top tier. That way no one would really have to try or put any effort into anything.

If the objective in PVP is to get some human challenge that PVE AI(lol) can't give you, then you'd think all the PVP'ers would want everyone in the same gear with achievements shown by obvious visual cues. If that's the case, then you should be able to just go talk to your faction war leader and get a "default" set of equipment from the local armory, for a marginal rental/maintenance cost.

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Originally Posted by daviddoran

I always buy the BoE set, cause otherwise I don't have any fun, and I just shut the game off. Especially when I'm on alts and it's late into the expansion.

Flying is more important now with HGWT removed, but I just leveled a team of 5 mages to 85, with 150% flying and it wasn't bad at all. I'd much rather have fun in BGs personally than fly faster. I have too many toons to be spending 5k gold on each one to fly fast... I'd go broke!

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I love that they made it so if any character bought 300% flying then all characters on that account have it. Suddenly my druid party doesn't suck so much :)

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

I love that they made it so if any character bought 300% flying then all characters on that account have it. Suddenly my druid party doesn't suck so much :)

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What? Since when? That's not the case for my accounts...

No they din

i just checked on 3 accounts
no fast flying for my alts

uh what happened then? All my druids are 310% and they sure as hell weren't before. 2 had it and 3 didn't, made for some really annoying flying.


edit: I better go check :/

edit2: damnit I swear I looked at everyone's speed when I was surprised that they weren't losing follow. It was all the same. Poop.

QQ AV premades do not have gear requirements, go get carried in AV for a day, win 95% of your games and be able to afford half the current gear. What's the problem?

I heard druid chars get the epic flying shared, might be because their epic flying used to come from an achievement or something? I dunno

Stop making fun of me! :D

With the base resilience that everyone gets (I think 40%) it's not as bad on day one as it used to be. My pallies have a few pieces of cata and a few crafted and they hold their own (ilvl only like 340). They would be much better with good gear, but I capped my honor and justice for the expansion instead. The point is that with the new base resilience things arent as awful as it once was.