Arena are now ruined for boxers.

Is anything changing with Arenas?

Yes, actually. Players will be able to see their opponent’s class and specialization before the match begins. They won’t be able to see the specific talent choices or glyphs being used, however. From there, it’s a bit like playing poker. You won’t know what exact abilities your opponent is using, but you’ll be able to modify your own talents in the staging area before the match starts to try to anticipate what they could be using.

This really actually pisses me off. It makes the act of surprising your enemy with a whacky and fun team composition useless. 5 hunters? forget it. healers are going to know exactly what's coming. 4 DK and pally team? jokes on you now, no more crusader aura sprints to the other team.

/wrists

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Originally Posted by Mokoi

Is anything changing with Arenas?

Yes, actually. Players will be able to see their opponent’s class and specialization before the match begins. They won’t be able to see the specific talent choices or glyphs being used, however. From there, it’s a bit like playing poker. You won’t know what exact abilities your opponent is using, but you’ll be able to modify your own talents in the staging area before the match starts to try to anticipate what they could be using.

This really actually pisses me off. It makes the act of surprising your enemy with a whacky and fun team composition useless. 5 hunters? forget it. healers are going to know exactly what's coming. 4 DK and pally team? jokes on you now, no more crusader aura sprints to the other team.

/wrists

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I really don't want to put myself on a pedistal but for this particular issue I am going to do so.

As a 2400+ rated arena player (2375 max 5's, 2419 3s) I'm going to tell you that this makes VERY LITTLE difference in 5's. This actually helps us more than it helps them in my opinion. I know for a fact that I have certain kill orders for team comps and the ability to know what stealth classes there are will be huge.

The days for 4x dks + crusader aura is over? Crusader aura never did anything for the actual death knights... and your paladin needs time to position correctly in order to not get CC'd out the ass to begin with. If you are playing by yourself then yes it might make a bit more impact due to that lack of surprise factor.

All my characters (i know not everyone does this) have the same name with different accents. This will still result in confusion for the most part anyway for targeting pre 2k rating due to most people not calling out arena target numbers in those situations (multiple of X class). 4x shaman, they get to pick who to focus? Really? It's no different than now because you have to set your shaman up in a place you deem suitable and most teams won't just charge into that. 5x hunters or something like that? Yeah that won't be as effective but IMO gimmick comps shouldn't really work anyway.

This really effects triple DPS though in 3's more so than it does 5's. Everyone in 5's has CC and will use it regardless of if they know the classes or not. It gives ME a distinct advantage by seeing their team comp and being able to pick target orders beforehand. They get to go "hey, kill the dk/paladin first!". We are affected by this it the same way everyone else is, if you can target someone and make them the focus target in 5's any team can basically zerg down another team's healer/dps if the CC is done right.

Is it an annoyance? Sure. Is it game breaking? Maybe for comps like 5x hunters but things like quad ret/healer or quad dk/healer it is not because it is basically the same as any other quad DPS comp, you either zerg a kill in the first 30 seconds of the match or you lose regardless if you are multi-boxing a single class or not.

I don't like the change as much as everyone else, but its not an extreme hinderence to us. If you were going to get high rated then you still will, skill matters more so than gimmicking out wins but those do add up over time as well.

On a good majority of battlegroups the talent pool is so low that you will run into the same 5-10 teams above 2100 anyway. Essentially this become cross server Arena Spy addon without the addon, and you can pretty much guess whats going on and come up with a strat after the first game vs us anyway. On a good majority of battlegroups (ruin, nightfall, rampage, cyclone) particular server/faction are what dominate the brackets... so Arena Spy does the EXACT same thing as this currently if you are in those sort of situations (bloodlust and other varying server bgs this will help the cross server teams though)

Lets be honest here though. Other than myself and VERY FEW others no one really takes 5v5 seriously and just does it for points.

Not to be a dick, but if this is going to stop you from boxing in PVP then good, it gives the rest of us a better chance even with this change. (Dan this is NOT directed at you)

Meh.

I used arena spy addon anyway so it doesnt change much for me. If you could change specs then I could see it being a bigger deal, hell I would have a lot of fun with that. Only talent that stands out is the pally talent that absorbs 70% of dot damage. If you know your facing a lock etc, switching to that gives you an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

Meh.

I used arena spy addon anyway so it doesnt change much for me. If you could change specs then I could see it being a bigger deal, hell I would have a lot of fun with that. Only talent that stands out is the pally talent that absorbs 70% of dot damage. If you know your facing a lock etc, switching to that gives you an advantage.

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DKs vs mages and other similar things... switch to desecrated ground. Melee teams switch to winter.

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Not to be a dick, but if this is going to stop you from boxing in PVP then good, it gives the rest of us a better chance even with this change.

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Shodoken, wtf was that? are you high? that was a dick move at the end there. I am your friend, dude. remember who you are talking to... perhaps you can recall the times I have stood beside you when the others wanted your blood. There's no reason to lash out for nothing at this community. Simmer down.

Not everyone plays DKs with a pocket paladin healer.

Yes, DK Pally will probably do fine for your level of skill, no matter what. Good for you, I'm quite excited to see what you can do in MoP.

I don't play ANY team competitively in Arenas. What I do like, is being able to surprise a team while im getting my points with 5 arcane mages, or 5 druids, or hunters or whatever... and kill them. It's fun, and given the 2 hours a week I get to play, it's about all I can do in arenas. Those PvPers who are really good in arena, will be good no matter what they do to the game, but for the other 99% of us out there who just play, and have fun with comps that are strange or just plain ridiculous, it puts us at a DISTINCT disadvantage.

As soon as ANY regular team has time to prepare for a boxing team, we are at a disadvantage. Especially for teams who can stealth / camo / invis.

So, if you turn off your "my team only" goggles, and think about the community as a whole (low-rated, strange team-playing, "friends" of yours) you will see what I mean.

Anyone else with an intelligent comment? What do you guys think, and why do you think Blizz has added this? It sort of goes against everything we have been given for so long.

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Originally Posted by Mokoi

Shodoken, wtf was that? are you high? that was a dick move at the end there. I am your friend, dude. remember who you are talking to... perhaps you can recall the times I have stood beside you when the others wanted your blood. There's no reason to lash out for nothing at this community. Simmer down.

Not everyone plays DKs with a pocket paladin healer.

Yes, DK Pally will probably do fine for your level of skill, no matter what. Good for you, I'm quite excited to see what you can do in MoP.

I don't play ANY team competitively in Arenas. What I do like, is being able to surprise a team while im getting my points with 5 arcane mages, or 5 druids, or hunters or whatever... and kill them. It's fun, and given the 2 hours a week I get to play, it's about all I can do in arenas. Those PvPers who are really good in arena, will be good no matter what they do to the game, but for the other 99% of us out there who just play, and have fun with comps that are strange or just plain ridiculous, it puts us at a DISTINCT disadvantage.

As soon as ANY regular team has time to prepare for a boxing team, we are at a disadvantage. Especially for teams who can stealth / camo / invis.

So, if you turn off your "my team only" goggles, and think about the community as a whole (low-rated, strange team-playing, "friends" of yours) you will see what I mean.

Anyone else with an intelligent comment? What do you guys think, and why do you think Blizz has added this? It sort of goes against everything we have been given for so long.

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Dan that wasn't directed at you dude, and i edited my post to say that before i even saw this post. I'm also not really lashing out at anyone, I'm being brutally honest and some people simply don't like that. We're already a dying breed and the less there are of us the more successful we get in comparison. It's almost back down to BC numbers because of the difficulty of the past expansion, the community as a whole was far more active back then too. This adds another "level of difficulty" to another aspect of the game that previously didn't have it until Jordon released Arena Spy... So just making the point of the trend of the game getting harder and people here running away from the challenges.

Also I don't have "my team only" goggles on either. Plain and simple this will require adaptation for those who are serious about it. Might force us to move to multi-class harder to control setups which ultimately I believe might be better in the long run. This is something that can be done with people who have a bunch of 5x teams they want to play. Mix it up and possibly have a better chance at winning.

As far as the vast majority of this community is concerned it might add a few extra games to your weekly point cap. It does leave you at a disadvantage with random team comps if you are just going for points. Each class has so many tools to do damage/CC that you can still win stacking things, it's always been hard to win with 5x mages, hunters, rogues (minus fan of knives patch), spriests etc etc... Will this change make it impossible to win? No.

As to WHY do I think they added this? They want to remove the random factor of wins based on unviable comps gimmicking out wins (which i agree is part of why 5's is so fun, running 5 dps is fun), or allow you to better strategise against teams to have a better chance at winning. If I know I am playing against RLS I play one way, RMP? Different, Paladin teams? Completely different. They can't really stop addons like Arena Spy so they seemingly just implemented it into the game to make it so those with the addon do not have an advantage. This certainly was not directed at us as other than a few QQ on blizz forums about my team I haven't seen any at all (not trying to be narcicistic here).

I really don't think it will have a huge impact, like i said it might take a few extra games but nothing extreme. I know a lot of us are pressed for time though so that can be a hinderence to the "fun factor" of a specific group you are trying to play though.

Also, you CAN change specs when you see the other teams comp. You can't see their talent choices, but I think in PvP most of them will be pretty obvious, ESPECIALLY if they have knowledge that they are fighting a boxer group.

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Originally Posted by Shodokan

Dan that wasn't directed at you dude, and i edited my post to say that before i even saw this post.

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It doesn't have to be directed at me, it certainly looked like it was, since it was the only other post at the time.

It shouldn't be directed at anyone in this community.

What Mokoi is saying is exactly what I thought about when I read that change. Most of us here are not 2400 players, hell even ~1800 is prob pushing it. My fail self is 1500.
I relied heavily on the surprise zerg at the start, and could visually see a little confusion on the other teams part. I need any help I can get and this is not a helping gesture as far as I'm concerned

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Originally Posted by cmeche

What Mokoi is saying is exactly what I thought about when I read that change. Most of us here are not 2400 players, hell even ~1800 is prob pushing it. My fail self is 1500.
I relied heavily on the surprise zerg at the start, and could visually see a little confusion on the other teams part. I need any help I can get and this is not a helping gesture as far as I'm concerned

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I understand that. But just like any aspect of multi-boxing. Its a challenge to be overcome. That should be embraced.

Also they can change specs in arena currently anyway. A good example of this is a rogue/spriest/shaman who went double healer to beat me.

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Originally Posted by Mokoi

Anyone else with an intelligent comment? What do you guys think, and why do you think Blizz has added this? It sort of goes against everything we have been given for so long.

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It's a change that benefits the smarter ones. If you are able to adapt your talents based on the opponents comp, regardless of the level you play at, the change will benefit you. If you are not capable to adapt, the change will most likely have a negative impact on you. And that is pretty much a ranking based arena game is supposed to be in my opinion. I never understood why people assume that a 'deathgrip target in 1 button smashing macro' play style should be waterproof.

Either way it will open up plenty of creative opportunities, for boxers and for solo players. If you play ele's and see you are up against melee cleave, you can swap around some talents, which can only be a good thing.

You've been able to see your opponent's spec (HP/MP levels iirc) before a Rated BG match starts since they were added. Why not arena? I don't see how this 1 thing ruins arena for boxers. People like Shodokan will still do well regardless. People like me will still be stuck ~1800.

Knowing what 5x or 4x+Healer comp your facing before the match starts doesn't limit the DPS that team does against you. It doesn't limit their targeting accuracy. If you can't adjust your strategies on the fly and adapt to win, arena isn't the place for you.

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Originally Posted by Svpernova09

You've been able to see your opponent's spec (HP/MP levels iirc) before a Rated BG match starts since they were added. Why not arena? I don't see how this 1 thing ruins arena for boxers. People like Shodokan will still do well regardless. People like me will still be stuck ~1800.

Knowing what 5x or 4x+Healer comp your facing before the match starts doesn't limit the DPS that team does against you. It doesn't limit their targeting accuracy. If you can't adjust your strategies on the fly and adapt to win, arena isn't the place for you.

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Also have been able to see enemy team specs and comp in regular bgs as well for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Mokoi

Also, you CAN change specs when you see the other teams comp. You can't see their talent choices, but I think in PvP most of them will be pretty obvious, ESPECIALLY if they have knowledge that they are fighting a boxer group.

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If they allow that then that ability alone hard counters alot of comps. It kills triple dps because any hybrids will spec healing and go double healer. I wonder if it updates as the person changes spec.....

Personally, I like the change, it could be alot of fun trolling people. Everyone spec healing then at the last second switch or vice versa.

Edit: err this is 5v5, my bad. delete

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

If they allow that then that ability alone hard counters alot of comps. It kills triple dps because any hybrids will spec healing and go double healer. I wonder if it updates as the person changes spec.....

Personally, I like the change, it could be alot of fun trolling people. Everyone spec healing then at the last second switch or vice versa.

Edit: err this is 5v5, my bad. delete

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They already can change spec man. Happened to me, got farmed from 2453 to 2380ish because of it. Spriest/Rogue/Shammy turned into Rogue with legendaries + Disc priest + shammy.

It was one thing to have teams implement a couple changes at high rating knowing that they were likely facing a boxing team. It's another to have all 5 classes trivially respec to every aoe cc possible, even the healers, just before the match.

I don't know if this will ultimately affect your rating cap, but I think it will make the entire experience significantly more frustrating. Being cheesed and gimmicked to death isn't fun

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Originally Posted by heyaz

It was one thing to have teams implement a couple changes at high rating knowing that they were likely facing a boxing team. It's another to have all 5 classes trivially respec to every aoe cc possible, even the healers, just before the match.

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Good thing everything DR's really fast.

Shaman or healers are dead just that quick. I feel like we're on a different page, but maybe things are a lot different with DK's or a melee team. My experience was with shaman and they were very easy to shut down.

ok we have an own thread for this /copy

I'm sure many warriors would rather use avatar/safeguard instead of shockwave/mass spell reflection, same goes to warlocks as I dont see why anyone should use shadowfury instead of onr of the other 2 talents, I would also assume that some dks would choose descerated ground over remorseless winter ... guess you know how that list continues

now whats in for me? hm I see warrior/lock/mage/double heal and I assume they will all use their aoe abilities to keep me as long as possible cc'd while they are going to kill my healer ... well ... oh there are no talents that could improve my chances of winning

in fact is doesnt really matter if I play against a melee or caster team there is nothing essential I could change (shaman perspective)

maybe it helps you as a dk boxer but its utterly shit for shamans

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Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4

ok we have an own thread for this /copy

I'm sure many warriors would rather use avatar/safeguard instead of shockwave/mass spell reflection, same goes to warlocks as I dont see why anyone should use shadowfury instead of onr of the other 2 talents, I would also assume that some dks would choose descerated ground over remorseless winter ... guess you know how that list continues

now whats in for me? hm I see warrior/lock/mage/double heal and I assume they will all use their aoe abilities to keep me as long as possible cc'd while they are going to kill my healer ... well ... oh there are no talents that could improve my chances of winning

in fact is doesnt really matter if I play against a melee or caster team there is nothing essential I could change (shaman perspective)

maybe it helps you as a dk boxer but its utterly shit for shamans

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DKs are actually squishier in general than shaman after you blow your "oh shit" buttons. I guess the fact that we have an o-shit button matters. But if you are staggering your grounding totems it shouldn't be super difficult to deal with some of the up front AOE CC. Lots of the AOE cc is on DR though so you might get hit with 2-3 things after your grounding rotation is done. You can also trinket them and a good majority of them are 1-2 min cooldowns (shockwave is an exception).

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Originally Posted by Shodokan

You can also trinket them and a good majority of them are 1-2 min cooldowns (shockwave is an exception).

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afaik ring of frost and shadowfury are 30 sec cd, disrupting shout 45 sec (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...t-calculator#e!) although I'm not sure if those numbers are still accurate I'm not up to date regarding the beta, I know most of them share dr but since the cooldown is that low it doesnt really matter because everything is ready again once dr is resetted

and so far grounding doesnt absorb aoe effects

And I'm not sure if blizz is going to change that as its logical to implement more aoe cc because of RBG

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Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4

afaik ring of frost and shadowfury are 30 sec cd, disrupting shout 45 sec (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...t-calculator#e!) although I'm not sure if those numbers are still accurate I'm not up to date regarding the beta, I know most of them share dr but since the cooldown is that low it doesnt really matter because everything is ready again once dr is resetted

and so far grounding doesnt absorb aoe effects

And I'm not sure if blizz is going to change that as its logical to implement more aoe cc because of RBG

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They might, as they are pushing for MLG to take WoW under their banner again with MoP.

Also warriors in 5's will use those abilities you listed as they are just too strong against multiple targets.

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Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4

afaik ring of frost and shadowfury are 30 sec cd, disrupting shout 45 sec (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...t-calculator#e!) although I'm not sure if those numbers are still accurate I'm not up to date regarding the beta, I know most of them share dr but since the cooldown is that low it doesnt really matter because everything is ready again once dr is resetted

and so far grounding doesnt absorb aoe effects

And I'm not sure if blizz is going to change that as its logical to implement more aoe cc because of RBG

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You know what is cool that I like alot is ring is 30sec cd and has a cast time 1.5 sec or something but it doesnt take time to build up like on live, its instant. Its pretty fun.

This change isn't a big deal for me. I don't like arenas and I STILL won't like them. They already have this in BGs as well. But yea, if you see you are versing a certain team, you can change from 2dps1healer to 2healer1dps, etc, to combat it, so I don't think it's a good change.

Only things arenas are good for are quick points if near the end of the week and still short.

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Originally Posted by valkry

This change isn't a big deal for me. I don't like arenas and I STILL won't like them. They already have this in BGs as well. But yea, if you see you are versing a certain team, you can change from 2dps1healer to 2healer1dps, etc, to combat it, so I don't think it's a good change.

Only things arenas are good for are quick points if near the end of the week and still short.

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For a lot of people here that is true but some of us do it for getting or attempting to get elite gear.

For elite PvP(Not just for fun) I see no problem. Its not like people are going to use an entire spec just to defeat boxers. It will be the same as it is now. We both have the same advantage.

Unless even at the top levels you are using the surprise factor well good now were on par with the rest.