Arena Group Viability?

Heya guys. i have 4 shamans, IM an Ellay wannabe, i know.

I have 4 hunters, 4 Mages and 3 Warlocks all in the process of sucking up Rest exp while I lvl them in spurts to minimize my actual time invested in these groups.

I had the opportunity to use the PTTR (the arena tournament test realm) recently, and I have tried the following groups at length:

4 Warlocks (Affliction Destro and Demo Specs)
4 Mages (AOE and burst dmg Specs)
4 hunters (BM Spec)
4 Druids (boom boom spec)
3 Warlocks (3v3 arenas solo)
of course, i tried 4 shamans in better than i have gear.

with every arena team, I got the following results:
90-100% losses.
I got lucky with my hunters a few times, i got lucky with warlocks a few times and I got lucky with boomkins a few times.

With my Shamans, I got unlucky a few times, and raped almost every single team i saw the other times.
90%+ win ratio.

Now, i have to account for the fact that my LIVE Shaman team is currently gearing up and crawling from the 1500 cap i had hit with the crap gear I had 3 weeks ago, and I am getting better at fighting with them, so allowing for a margin of "newbness" on the other classes, I don't see that the other teams had anything close to the viability that Shamans have, even given that I was relatively unskilled with the other classes.

Now, i have played all of those classes, i have raided with them competively in 25 and old 40 mans, i know the classes inside and out, and from what I knew i took the best approach to the arenas i could. hunters shadowmeld and blast single targets down with traps all around me, hunter pets pwning casters etc. Warlocks dotting like mad running around aoe fearing, pets on casters etc etc

I Think i had good plans for each group, and made sure to bring healer that suited each group that knew what was going on, but with every other group makeup except Shamans, I wasn't able to pull off a win against even unorganized skirmish players on the test server. and theres a lot of people who are playing classes they have never touched before on that server.

However, with my Shamans, i was constantly winning and lost only to very well organized horde premades with good strategies on how to crush a multiboxer. I'm impatient and don't like waiting an hour for a stupid PTR arena group to run away from me and I usually ended up ramboing those smart groups because I wanted to get it over with and not waste my time on a non rated server lol. i won a number of 4 on 5 with good groups because my Shamans are just the best setup I think.

Has Anyone had a moderate amount of success in the ARENAS (I understand that Hunters, mages warlocks and Druids in the BGs would be pwnage, but i am after results in rated arenas) with non Shaman setups? I would like a new multibox group but I fear my success will be limited not by my skill but by the limitations of the groups that have potential.

any ideas?

First off, thanks for testing this and throwing some results out there. I thought Boomkins were a possibility, and I might have to test this myself, but thanks for sharing your results, pretty much confirming my beliefs.

I'm afraid the sad fact is that all the other ranged classes require some sort of "skill" to stay alive in an arena enviroment, (kites, fears, frost novas, roots, traps, cyclones, ice blocks, feign deaths and so on and so forth), where as the Shaman have it pretty passively (Grounding totem, Shields and Mail armor). I can't see four of those micro intensive classes doing well unless you spend A LOT (emphasis on LOT) of time practicing, and even then you'd have to be madly skilled to pull it off.
Add to that the fact that Shamans have the better burst damage, with possible exception of POM mages, and I think it's pretty clear why Shamans are the "easier" and better choice. They just function better with less of a brain and micro devoted to each.
To put it in another way, with a group of Shaman you can use nearly all their abilities to full potential. With a group of Mages/Warlocks/Whatever, you really can't. Individually, the Shaman is weaker than any of the others, but once you strip the micro from the classes, as you do when multiboxing, Shamans still have most of their abilities, either passively, or to be plopped down in form of totems affecting the whole group. The other classes have more individual skills, and without them they are left fairly defenseless.

I've given this a fair bit of thought myself, because I'm thinking along the same lines you are. With Multiboxing becoming more popular, I don't want to be "Just another noob shaman group". I'd want to be different. But in Arenas, I don't think you have a lot of choice, sadly...
Maybe 4-5 Shadow Priests? Their passive healing might offset some of the incoming damage. But then, I doubt this is viable.

Frost Mages. If the other team is clumped together as they usually, are, you could do some Water Elemental ranged freezing with FB's and lances, Frost Nova and four CoC... Bind Ice Block to four keys next to each other somewhere. It could work. Less burst damage, and less survivability, I think, but sheeps might tip the scales. Meh, I'm just speculating here.


I'd really love to hear it if someone thinks I'm wrong on this, by the way. I seriously do. Throw your thoughts in there ;)

yeah, regarding Shadow priests. I tried 3 shadow Priests in the 3v3 arenas a few times, and it didnt take long to figure out that they just have WAY too little dmg reduction. as a Shaman, I can let a rogue and a MS war beat on my guys for 45 seconds with a healer BOP and healing me through it (poison totems ftw) with Priests, they just got ownd WAY too fast. i tried some 3 Spriest action in 5 v5 too and it was just as horrible. i did a lot of DPS initially getting my dots down and a few good MF's in, and could take one guy down pretty quick with good volley of dots and Mind Blast : SW:D but because MB isn't spammable, i was usually left with a standing angry warrior in my face ready to Whirlwind all my bubbles away and sweeping strike all my HP away while his resto druid cycloned my healer and his Pally bomb healing him. bad news for Priests.

The Moonkins actually weren't that bad. They did pretty good at the burst DMG, I don't think Wrath does near the DMG that Lightning Bolt does, and the lack of a chain lightning is huge.. that and the main reason Shamans PWN is Heroism. Stealthing around to the back of the other team and getting the jump was nice, but after they see no team they tend to do the defensive bubbles and hot up the team thing, which sucks lol.

Hunters were by FAR the most fun, because nothing is as good as watching 4 (in my case) red cats eat a paladin alive, while I ate their mages. then their melee ate me alive. and aoe sucks :P haha

yeah I hate to be stuck in the "You are Ellay wannabe" Role, but this truly is the best arena multiboxer setup in my opinion. at least for 5s. 2v2 there may be a clever combo i havent thought of, but 5v5 gives way more points =)

ok actually, i take back the hunter being the most fun. When you mentioned mages, my first thought was fireball spamming fireblasting pwnage mages, but the most fun was actually AOE mages rushing in and trying to aoe the entire team down before they had a chance to recover, that was fun. inneffective against glad gear players, but fun as you can have with your epiks on.

Im gonna try 3v3 with my mages as soon as i ding 70, i doubt tho that i will get over 1600+ rating :P but who knows ^^. Will also do some 5v5with a warrior and a healer :).

Thanks for the testing :) The other classes may take a little more finesse in mobility as a Shaman has the distinct advantage of being able to stand still and become a tank. I'd really hope there is another option out there for high end Arenas besides Shamans, but we will only be able to find that out when someone tries to push the limits :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=43164#post431 64

Thanks for the testing :) The other classes may take a little more finesse in mobility as a Shaman has the distinct advantage of being able to stand still and become a tank. I'd really hope there is another option out there for high end Arenas besides Shamans, but we will only be able to find that out when someone tries to push the limits :)

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Thanks for rewriting my post, simplify it and make it understandable at a glance :D

Sometimes I just can't stop writing. Anyway, I really hope someone is out there working on becoming the next you, with a different setup. Some choices would be nice, right now it seems PvP multiboxing = shamans. Damn you for showing how effective it is! You could have told me and left the others out of the loop! ;)

Something did actually cross my mind just now..

Ellay? by any chance would you mind commenting on a few things..

In the Arena matched where you do loose, what it the main cause for this? is it melee interruptions? or a mages spamming arcane explosions whilst you are being shot down.

The reason I ask Is cos i just realised something rather amusing :P

Destruction Warlocks are normally not considered a viable spec as they lack survivability.. but picture this :)
With this new macro targeting thing for AoE spells, If you set it to be at location 0,0 ie right on top of you.. anything that came within melee range would remain stunned for a very long time.. 2 sec stun per shadowfury, on roundrobin.. cast it every 2.5 secs means anyone caught close to you would remain stunned for 15 seconds out of every 20.. with 0.5 sec intervals, where they are unlikely to do much anyway.
This is of course diminishing returns dependant (not sure if there is any on shadowfury)

and for single target dps.. nothing beats an insane immo + confla + shadowburn x5 that combo being available every 15 secs means as long as you can keep melee off you and burst down ranged dps quickly, you should obliterate the opposition..
make sure you have the most threatening person on focus.. so say if its a hunter ur worried about.. chain deathcoils..

this setup would require some insane skills and alot of practice, but i get the feeling that provided you execute this perfectly whoever messes with you is in for the shock of their lives..

of course otherwise i would recommend SL/SL for survivability dotage.. or UA affliction locks for pure dotage.. having a healer not know what to do is probably the funniest thing i can imagine.. ermm dispel? Boom 5x UA proc.. erm heal.. with so many dots it's going to be hard.. not to mention 5 instant Howl of terrors, deathcoils, pets etc

also:

I like the idea of 5 mages alot.. and while i understand it that this is only really viable with inexperienced groups.. i get the feeling it has alot more potential then one might think...
so far what usually happens is that the team rushes in and tries to AoE down the opposition.. this is a fun tactic and works well against some setups, or when ppl just aren't ready for it.. however.. I always figured using proximo to set up a focus on the opposition (one for each of ur clones) would be amazingly viable..

instead of the shock and awe tactic, a few more seconds preparation could allow you to have the whole opposition sheeped, giving you enough time to burst them down one by one.. with the option for that amazing aoe damage too :)

I have been playing 3v3 with Elem Shaman and 2x Destro Warlocks. I have won about 75%. I mostly lose against hunter or dual rogue teams.

Here is what I do...

First, send both felhounds to the healer (or dps caster if 3 dps team). I have a round robin macro setup for felhound silence. Then I use this cast sequence:

Shaman Warlock
1) EM+CL Immo
2) NS+LB Conflag
3) ES or FS Shadowburn

Target 1 should be dead or very close at this point. I then start a fear cycle on one while I take out the healer / ranged dps. Then kill the last one.

When I lose a match, it's usually because I could of done something differently in order to win the match. That may sound a little vague but it seems to be how things fall into place for me now :)

Your chain stun idea won't work as well because of diminishing returns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=43264#post432 64

When I lose a match, it's usually because I could of done something differently in order to win the match. That may sound a little vague but it seems to be how things fall into place for me now :)

Your chain stun idea won't work as well because of diminishing returns.

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hehe no worries :) I think i know what you mean :) can't wit to hit 70 myself

as for the chain stun.. one could incorpoarte some howl of terrors into that kind of rotation :)

Ellay, have you ever done a write up on your basic strats with the 4x Shaman? I just did my first arena set last week with mine (Horribly geared of course; 6.5khp, 450 spell damage, 0 res) and I worked out a bit for some of the arenas and setups but... I was wondering if there was a primer :)

If not, is that something one could entice you to do? I'd rather pick up tips from the master to jump start the accumulation of arena points :D Thanks in advance either way!