Week ban

We are contacting you regarding your account XXXXX for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.
We wish to notify you that you are continuing to violate our Terms of Service.
From an investigation of your Account we can see that your character has carried out the following violation:
Charactername: XXXX
Server: XXXX
Violation description: Third Party Software
As you have violated our Terms of Service we will be applying a suspension on your account. We are suspending your account for 1 week (168 hours) with immediate effect.
If you continue to violate our Terms of Service it may result in a permanent account closure. We encourage you to familiarise yourself with our Terms of Service which can be found here:
http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/


Thank you for your understanding.

isBoxer?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkmod

We are contacting you regarding your account XXXXX for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.
We wish to notify you that you are continuing to violate our Terms of Service.
From an investigation of your Account we can see that your character has carried out the following violation:
Charactername: XXXX
Server: XXXX
Violation description: Third Party Software
As you have violated our Terms of Service we will be applying a suspension on your account. We are suspending your account for 1 week (168 hours) with immediate effect.
If you continue to violate our Terms of Service it may result in a permanent account closure. We encourage you to familiarise yourself with our Terms of Service which can be found here:
http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/


Thank you for your understanding.

isBoxer?

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Lax would be the one to offer insight here.Forward the email to Lax@lavishsoft.com and make sure you include your Lavishsoft account name / email. Not sure if he's traveling for Christmas or not, but he'll look into it as soon as he can.

Edit:

It's odd that "Third Party Software" doesn't appear in the document they linked. And even more that document doesn't seem to cover third party software. (just did a very quick search for "third")

We didn't ban you, so we can't tell you if it was ISBoxer or if it was something you were doing with ISBoxer or keyboard or mouse macros or whatever. I'd suggest you contact their customer service to ask for details.

ISBoxer has been confirmed as OK, so it may be a misunderstanding. I suggest talking to the customer service and seeing what they say.

Looking at my running apps. I do have a custom Autoit tool i use for launching custom batch files. It might be flagged but never touches SWTOR. They must have a generic process list for flagged running apps. o-well i just wait my week out.

for the benefit of everyone, i would ask that you contest the ban and specifically say what you were doing and ask how it is bannable. unless there is more to it.. and you just want to wait it out...

I Sent an email to there customer service. I tried there support number with no luck. Endless loop of menu options. If anyone know a ways go get a real person let me know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkmod

I Sent an email to there customer service. I tried there support number with no luck. Endless loop of menu options. If anyone know a ways go get a real person let me know.

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Try again on a day that isn't Christmas?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkmod

Looking at my running apps. I do have a custom Autoit tool i use for launching custom batch files. It might be flagged but never touches SWTOR. They must have a generic process list for flagged running apps. o-well i just wait my week out.

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I hope that's not the case, I was planning on using AutoIt w/ ISBoxer when i finally set up my DB. Though not in the same capacity, just to enable or disable auto attack so i don't have to keep spamming 1 for hours on end.

Let us know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Svpernova09

Lax would be the one to offer insight here.Forward the email to Lax@lavishsoft.com and make sure you include your Lavishsoft account name / email. Not sure if he's traveling for Christmas or not, but he'll look into it as soon as he can.

Edit:

It's odd that "Third Party Software" doesn't appear in the document they linked. And even more that document doesn't seem to cover third party software. (just did a very quick search for "third")

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Number 6 mentions 3rd party, but the meat and potatoes is in sections 11, mainly this line:

- Use or distribute unauthorized "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software program or applications.

notice that they covered macro software programs as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleBladed

I hope that's not the case, I was planning on using AutoIt w/ ISBoxer when i finally set up my DB. Though not in the same capacity, just to enable or disable auto attack so i don't have to keep spamming 1 for hours on end.

Let us know.

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Automated is automated. I would advise against using anything to automatically do anything in SWTOR until we finally get some sort of answer on what is and is not allowed in the game. If it requires physical input to do, then use physical input, especially since you're posting this in a thread talking about someone being banned.



And yes, I did send one of my trademarked long-winded emails to them this morning asking for them to get off their asses and clarify what is and is not allowed as far as multiboxing/mouse/keyboard functions. Now we get to play the back and forth game as they send me to the support site a dozen times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleBladed

I hope that's not the case, I was planning on using AutoIt w/ ISBoxer when i finally set up my DB. Though not in the same capacity, just to enable or disable auto attack so i don't have to keep spamming 1 for hours on end.

Let us know.

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I don't think there's any question at all that doing so is against the rules of SWTOR and most other MMORPGs. It's pretty explicitly stated...

From the Rules of Conduct for SWTOR, as linked by Darkmod, you may not:

Quote:

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- Use or distribute unauthorized "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software program or applications.
- Use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools.

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AutoIt is clearly an "auto" or "macro" software program.

I don't understand people to be honest ... you know that multiboxing is already balancing on a very thin line. Using a software keyboard broadcaster is basically automating in the strict sense, they just don't ban the use of it. The more if you take dynamic keymaps, up/down state, repeater regions, ... into account, And then you plan to use a macro tool in conjunction with that?

*shakes head*

Come on people use your heads please! ANY automation is NOT allowed, period. Don't do it, boast about it and then complain about it when you get banned. You just create more reasons for people to dislike boxers and more reasons to get boxing banned altogether.

Simple rule: Press a button, and do nothing else as your actions continue = AUTOMATION

No No No No!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vecter

Come on people use your heads please! ANY automation is NOT allowed, period. Don't do it, boast about it and then complain about it when you get banned. You just create more reasons for people to dislike boxers and more reasons to get boxing banned altogether.

Simple rule: Press a button, and do nothing else as your actions continue = AUTOMATION

No No No No!

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I never used any Automation with SWTOR . As i said i had a custom Autoit GUI running in the background that i use for batch files and im guessing Autoit was the cause of my suspension. I should know more when customer service emails me back.


I'm not crying over spilled milk. Knowledge of prevention is not a bad thing for the community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax

I don't think there's any question at all that doing so is against the rules of SWTOR and most other MMORPGs. It's pretty explicitly stated...

From the Rules of Conduct for SWTOR, as linked by Darkmod, you may not:

AutoIt is clearly an "auto" or "macro" software program.

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well that sucks. i used it in city of heroes for years and it worked great.

i dont understand why they can say you cant use macros but at the same time they sell a $250 SWTOR official keyboard (made by razer) that's main selling & advertised feature is macros.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/...kie%288%29.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleBladed

well that sucks. i used it in city of heroes for years and it worked great.

i dont understand why they can say you cant use macros but at the same time they sell a $250 SWTOR official keyboard (made by razer) that's main selling & advertised feature is macros.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/...kie%288%29.jpg

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Because people would like to use that functionality for games that actually allow it. Would you like to switch between
multiple keyboards so that you could use features from one keyboard for one game and features from another keyboard
for another game? Seems kinda tedious...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleBladed

well that sucks. i used it in city of heroes for years and it worked great.

i dont understand why they can say you cant use macros but at the same time they sell a $250 SWTOR official keyboard (made by razer) that's main selling & advertised feature is macros.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/...kie%288%29.jpg

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Because Razer is not Bioware just like SteelSeries is not Blizzard. Like MiRai said, no one is going to spend that kind of money on a keyboard that's only useful for one game that you may only play a few weeks. Macro features are useful for not only other games, but non-gaming, too. I've never used my Naga's macro feature in a game, yet I use it every day for other things.

Average single boxer can automate stupid stuff [like spamming 1, for instance] and probably get away with it ad infinity. although technically [ and this technicality might get you banned, make no mistake] these devices allow actions outside the TOS, reasonable use would be pretty hard to catch. [and most GM's would feel pretty silly enforcing it, I imagine, unless they had an axe to grind against the violator...]

The problem comes from the fact that as boxers, our visibility is obscenely high. Ergo, for better or worse, we are held to a higher standard of conduct. Not to sound negative, but because we can't get busted for boxing, we will be busted for any technical violation that they can hang on us, like it or not. [negative community feedback, if nothing else, places a microscope on our actions].

This is all pretty obvious, but, the main point is that the tool is just a tool. Hammer can be used to drive nails, or murder someone. The burden isn't on the manufacturer to make the hammer only viable as a tool and not as a murder weapon. This is impractical, at best. The context of the hammer makes it 'ok' or 'not-ok'. The 'one action per key-press' is a technical stance that blizzard took, and must be honored as such. The spirit of the law is 'no automation.' I can't imagine simple combinatorial macro's are punished very often [e.g. 2 actions per physical keypress, but no outright automation]. The legal definition allows them to punish them at discretion.

As was stated, it remains to be seen where the technical definition lies with Bioware.

As an aside, I imagine many, many players abuse the letter of the rules in various games with pauses/repeats/etc in macro software/hardware. They just aren't very visible, and aren't really violating the spirit of the rule [their character isn't really auto-reacting to anything, their just reducing their wrist strain], and ergo they aren't generally punished. That doesn't really apply to us, as boxers, though. [And it would be irresponsible to suggest someone tread that letter/spirit line. ]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ishar

Average single boxer can automate stupid stuff [like spamming 1, for instance] and probably get away with it ad infinity. although technically [ and this technicality might get you banned, make no mistake] these devices allow actions outside the TOS, reasonable use would be pretty hard to catch. [and most GM's would feel pretty silly enforcing it, I imagine, unless they had an axe to grind against the violator...]

The problem comes from the fact that as boxers, our visibility is obscenely high. Ergo, for better or worse, we are held to a higher standard of conduct. Not to sound negative, but because we can't get busted for boxing, we will be busted for any technical violation that they can hang on us, like it or not. [negative community feedback, if nothing else, places a microscope on our actions].

This is all pretty obvious, but, the main point is that the tool is just a tool. Hammer can be used to drive nails, or murder someone. The burden isn't on the manufacturer to make the hammer only viable as a tool and not as a murder weapon. This is impractical, at best. The context of the hammer makes it 'ok' or 'not-ok'. The 'one action per key-press' is a technical stance that blizzard took, and must be honored as such. The spirit of the law is 'no automation.' I can't imagine simple combinatorial macro's are punished very often [e.g. 2 actions per physical keypress, but no outright automation]. The legal definition allows them to punish them at discretion.

As was stated, it remains to be seen where the technical definition lies with Bioware.

As an aside, I imagine many, many players abuse the letter of the rules in various games with pauses/repeats/etc in macro software/hardware. They just aren't very visible, and aren't really violating the spirit of the rule [their character isn't really auto-reacting to anything, their just reducing their wrist strain], and ergo they aren't generally punished. That doesn't really apply to us, as boxers, though. [And it would be irresponsible to suggest someone tread that letter/spirit line. ]

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Excellent post. To add my two penneth to the final paragraph - Most MMO's use the TOS as 'a line in the sand'. If they ban everyone that steps over the line, even once, then they lose 50% of their player base. So they distinguish between people occasionally taking a step over and people who jump across and run around on the wrong side on purpose. In MMO terms this tends to be summed up by the question "Are you at the keyboard?". I often use small Logitech G15 macros for repetitive keystrokes eg in EQ2 I get off my mount harvest a gathering node, then get on my horse again. That's a world away from the old style combat macros in SWG where you'd press the button, go away for an hour then come back to a bag full of loot.

I totally agree with Ishar's point that as multiboxers we are under particular scrutiny and our actions will be monitored more aggressively by a suspicious player base. But I've always found that people get confused between multiboxers and afk bots. Afk bots are an abomination, they are the people who jump over the line of acceptability without a damn. However, I'm sure that many of you have experienced players eyeing up your multibox chars and then saying "Hmm, another ^%$£ing bot! Reported.". A short polite conversation later, and the same person is falling over themselves to apologise for misunderstanding and wishing you well. The key point being, we are at the keyboard, we're not afk.

Even when we are reported I've tended to find that GMs are more than happy once I respond to a tell and explain that I'm multiboxing. "Ah! That's fine dude, sorry to have bothered you but we have to follow up on reports. Good luck!" is usually the response.

Having said all that, as Ishar says, we are going to get into potential issues more than single boxers, and we always run the risk of getting an ignorant GM on our case or an automated ban. So that's why it's essential that we don't run obviously suspect third party apps, we don't run long term, complex macros, we don't do ANYTHING whilst AFK, and we're always polite and informative when confronted by suspicion and ignorance from other players.

Blimey, I don't half go on eh?

From what I read in the OP's posts, he has AutoIT installed, but it is not performing any actions in-game. Unless there's more than he's saying, that seems like it'd be a point of contention to bring up with Bioware. As far as I know, Blizzard could care less if you have AutoIT loaded and running as long as you don't use it to automate gameplay. Bioware may need to be educated on this, and it's not going to happen unless bans are fought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiRai

Because people would like to use that functionality for games that actually allow it. Would you like to switch between
multiple keyboards so that you could use features from one keyboard for one game and features from another keyboard
for another game? Seems kinda tedious...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Khatovar

Because Razer is not Bioware just like SteelSeries is not Blizzard. Like MiRai said, no one is going to spend that kind of money on a keyboard that's only useful for one game that you may only play a few weeks. Macro features are useful for not only other games, but non-gaming, too. I've never used my Naga's macro feature in a game, yet I use it every day for other things.

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I understand what you guys are saying, but it's advertised as having macros for SWTOR. not just advertised as having the ability to macro.

http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/keyboard

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Whether engaged in deadly space combat in your starship or executing a critical mission on Coruscant, the rapid-actuating slim keys allow for shorter travel distance so you can reach key-binds and macros more efficiently.

Forge your utter domination of the game in full force with the Star Wars: The Old Republic Gaming Keyboard by Razer

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I'm not sure the exact nature of Razer's contract w/ SWTOR licencing; but i would imagine that their advertising claims would have had to be approved. In which case, if it's really not allowed, is a case of false advertising (unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising) on two counts: Firstly in that it causes a false advantage against their business competitors, & secondly that the claim causes a likelihood of harm to the consumer (a ban being the cost of the game(s), subscription cost & time invested).

If they didn't specifically mention deadly space combat in your starship & a critical mission on Coruscant directly w/ using macros, followed by SWTOR they could skirt the line. But this, to me, looks fairly deceptive if that's the case.

We don't actually know where Bioware drew the line in the sand; per WoW, macro's [existingoutside of wow that constitute more than 1 keystroke] are technically on the wrong side of WoW's line. See above post for more discussion.

For Bioware, we don't know yet; their line could fall on either side of non-game macro's. Until we know where they draw that line, using such is at best, risky.

Note that irregardless of where the technical line is drawn, generally speaking 'repeat infinitely' macro's are almost always a technical TOS violation. As was said, reasonable GMs probably don't care about that as long as you are at the keyboard. Nevertheless, doing so might get you banned, particularly as a boxer.

The usage of hardware/software macro's is completely possible [and helpful] without ever utilizing repeat functionality.

Also, simply because features exist, and are acceptable in isolation, it does not necessarily follow that all possible uses of these features are acceptable.