AV Stratagies

With AV weekend starting tomorrow I'm wondering if anyone can share good multiboxing strategies. I'm hoping to use this weakened to get all four of my characters (horde priests) PVE gear so the goal of course it to win, and win rather quickly.

A couple thoughts I have are as follows:

Force the turtle: Shouldn't be too hard, just wipe them at Galv (is this still possible?) and go into full DoT mode. The only problem here is the time.

Rush Offense: In this scenario, I take my team and rush North, cap the Gyd and start the bunkers. The goal here is to beat the Alliance before they can take our south towers/gyds and hopefully kill Vann with two towers up. The problems I see with this are when Stonehearth is capped and the Alliance spawn near the bunkers.

Rush Defense:
Similar to the offense, the goal here is to prevent the Alliance from turning the gyd. The idea here is, if you can get the North GYd and Bunkers you will already be winning the race. Of course every player you kill is one more player that can defend their bunkers.

These are the ideas I have thought of, but I would love to see more.

What I did in alterac valley's is capture iceblood tower (im alliance) and defend till burned.. This point is crucial bcause of iceblood graveyard.
Hordies respawning at the graveyard attempt to recapture IB tower
After burned I assist on towerpoint, if not yet burned..
After TP just going for boss and hoping my ally's captured fw towers. (whitch not always happens though)
I never assist at galv bcause evryone is going there..

If possible and no hate is in the game i try to get an extra healer to run with me, and try to convince some people to go TP, FW west and east

For me i find defending at balinda just plain dumb bcause they come with at least 20..
I tried it alot of times but really, its just a suicide.

For the rest.. You cant really carry this IMHO
If ur team aint active enough or wont work as a team, u really are scr*wed

Greetings

Seems like a good idea, go for the guaranteed honor rather than have a situation where the game ends and you're still waiting for towers to turn. I'm running shadow priests at this time, but I might consider going disc and just spam bubbles/holy nova.

When farming honor what counts is honor per hour imo. If you are horde (map favor's alliance a lot) it's key for a win to cap the DB towers asap. As a boxer that's rather easy to do imo, at least easier than counting on 1-2 players). Another option is to play the defensive game and make sure you recap the frostwolf towers. Keeping your base towers from getting burned down and / or burning down their base towers seems like the deciding factor in most AV games I've played in cataclysm.

I allways defend Balinda as Alliance. Then I ping pong back and forth to the towers cleaning them up

With between 400 and 500 AV games played, I feel I can give you some decent advice. My way is always to try and 'failproof' the AV as much as possible.
Few scenario's:
1. If you attack, you can only defend 1 assaulted bunker, so you rely on the other teammates to cap the other 3. If they don't, you lose.
2. If you defend Galv and turtle it, the alliance will respawn and probably recap their bunkers which turns the game in a complete grindfest. You have 2 options here, either defend your towers or farm Alliance and hope other people defend. If they don't defend you lose. If they're failing at the grinding, you lose.
3. Join your raid to make sure Balinda dies and that the alliance raid moves into your base. You should now be able to recap 2 towers/bunkers and hopefully IW/FW GY's which gives the alliance a tough time at Drek. Thus buying your raid more time at capping the alliance base, which in most cases is needed since Alliance seems to rush south a lot quicker then horde rushes north(partially due to NPC's in the alliance base)

I always try to go with option 3. Your burst damage is most usefull since you need to wipe the alliance quickly in your towers to recap them. Defending 2 towers should be very doable. Where trying to assault 2 bunkers at once is not possible. You do need to feel comfortable inside buildings though and keep a close look on your slaves.

On the main team, 4 shamans I have 238 AV battles played, 157 won. Taking note of the ~50 battles I lost at lvl 60, that's quite a good win ratio if you ask me.

If you have four priests, I'd think you'd make a larger impact on the battle healing the swarm than killing with them.
Almost all of the losses (as Alliance) is to horde who turn the game into a grindfest by turtling near the Iceblood Graveyard.

If the sides race towards the generals, the alliance wins most of these.

As a DPS spec, you can cap bunkers/towers and backcap your own.
Belinda is much easier than Galv, so once you have some gear you should be able to solo her if she's up.

I've always said map favoured horde a lot. There was a reason the horde cave was moved back further south...

I think if you're pushing to win via objectives, the map favors the alliance.
You only get into the alliance base, via the bridge... which is easy to defend and has the npc archers supporting it.
Far more of the npc's in the horde base can by bypassed compared to alliance npc's, and you can capture the flag in a tower without killing any of the npc's.

However, if you want to force a long drawn out battle, where reinforcements will be the determining factor...
The alliance's best chokes are either the bridge (giving the horde two bunkers) or the area around Stonehearth Graveyard / The bunker a little north of there (giving the horde one bunker).
The horde can turtle at Icewing Tower / Icewing Graveyard, which is a closer graveyard to the choke point and no towers surrendered.
So the horde has the advantage in choke point defense - reinforcements type game.

What I usually do is defend Balinda, a lot of people realise 10 shamans are defending and keep running up to Dun Baldar. When the majority are up there I slowly go up re-capping IB tower and then the GY by the bridge and then hopefully, dun baldar itself.

Won 3 times in a row doing this so far.

I start the game by picking off stragglers from the main alliance group. Then I recap our towers. Usually results in a win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by valkry

I've always said map favoured horde a lot. There was a reason the horde cave was moved back further south...

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We not gonna have this discussion again, are we? :D
It's factually proven that the alliance can reach & cap the frostwolf towers faster than horde can reach and cap DB towers. Even more, it's factually proven that alliance can kill the horde captain faster than horde can kill the alliance captain, at equal dps and speed buffs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zenga

it's factually proven that the alliance can reach & cap the frostwolf towers faster than horde can reach and cap db towers. Even more, it's factually proven that alliance can kill the horde captain faster than horde can kill the alliance captain, at equal dps and speed buffs.

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Truth

Quite a few less players are required to down Belinda than Galvatron.

In full conquest gear, during 4.1, my 4x Frost DK's with the support of an equally geared Holy Paladin could not down Galv on several dozen attempts.
The fear and the AoE attack sucked.

My group would easily take out 2-3 Horde who were successfully half-grouping Belinda.

Stopping my toons (on mounts) 2-3 times for the stragglers (on auto follow) to catch up... to not lose a toon enroute to Galv...
That results in Galv dying before my team can get there (in 4.3), and that is only maybe a 10-15 second delay compared to the first alliance to reach Galv.
So in the current patch, there's a great chance my team would be able to down Galv or Belinda solo and with ease, once geared.



Not saying the map favors one faction over the other.
But being able to get to Galv faster than Belinda, does not make the encounters equal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ualaa

I think if you're pushing to win via objectives, the map favors the alliance.
You only get into the alliance base, via the bridge... which is easy to defend and has the npc archers supporting it.
Far more of the npc's in the horde base can by bypassed compared to alliance npc's, and you can capture the flag in a tower without killing any of the npc's.

However, if you want to force a long drawn out battle, where reinforcements will be the determining factor...
The alliance's best chokes are either the bridge (giving the horde two bunkers) or the area around Stonehearth Graveyard / The bunker a little north of there (giving the horde one bunker).
The horde can turtle at Icewing Tower / Icewing Graveyard, which is a closer graveyard to the choke point and no towers surrendered.
So the horde has the advantage in choke point defense - reinforcements type game.

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You are fighting uphill along a narrow path into the horde base. The towers hit you all the way up, and the NPCs are all along it which aggro as soon as you go near them. you go through 4 bottlenecks and finish with a blind crest. The horde base is FAR harder to get into than the Ally base.

And the best Ally choke point is the Slope just south of SP GY in that canyon, fighting uphill against people who can see you but you can't see them is one of the hardest positions to take. As well as the horde GY is very far away, making reinforcements for Alliance much closer.

End of the day, the team that will win any turtle grind is the team with the most healers. Without a boxer, dmg is spread and making a kill against 6 healers aoe healing is nigh impossible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ualaa

Quite a few less players are required to down Belinda than Galvatron.

In full conquest gear, during 4.1, my 4x Frost DK's with the support of an equally geared Holy Paladin could not down Galv on several dozen attempts.
The fear and the AoE attack sucked.

My group would easily take out 2-3 Horde who were successfully half-grouping Belinda.

Stopping my toons (on mounts) 2-3 times for the stragglers (on auto follow) to catch up... to not lose a toon enroute to Galv...
That results in Galv dying before my team can get there (in 4.3), and that is only maybe a 10-15 second delay compared to the first alliance to reach Galv.
So in the current patch, there's a great chance my team would be able to down Galv or Belinda solo and with ease, once geared.



Not saying the map favors one faction over the other.
But being able to get to Galv faster than Belinda, does not make the encounters equal.

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Defeating Galv and balinda has basically no impact whatsoever on the game. It is quite easy to come back to them. The REAL objectives that are the goal are the towers/bunkers. Defeating them makes the end boss much easier to defeat. And just saying, SH bunker is easier/quicker to get to than IBT for Alliance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zenga

We not gonna have this discussion again, are we? :D
It's factually proven that the alliance can reach & cap the frostwolf towers faster than horde can reach and cap DB towers. Even more, it's factually proven that alliance can kill the horde captain faster than horde can kill the alliance captain, at equal dps and speed buffs.

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And it's been proven the exact opposite as well.

Step 1: make one dk blood (if using dks + paladin)
Step 2: get two towers down
Step 3: pull with two dudes up
Step 4: Win

Step 1: get one tower down
Step 2: pop all totems 10x earth and 10x fire, drop 10x healing rain and some earthquakes too
Step 3: pull with three dudes up
Step 4: Make sure the rest of your team are human meatshields
Step 5: Win

This weekend i've been defending one of the dun baldar towers, which went pretty well.
With my 3 shadow priests and a friendly healer waiting inside the tower, killing the horde one at a time.
The trick is to stay inside, since the majority of the horde just runs into the base and starts idling at the entrance, if they see someone else already trying to cap a tower.
Assuming the rest of the alliance just rushes south and assuming the horde won't start fighting the endboss before both dun baldar towers are down, we'll win. and 9 out of 10 times that works.

It only works during the times the most kids are playing though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyrberus

This weekend i've been defending one of the dun baldar towers, which went pretty well.
With my 3 shadow priests and a friendly healer waiting inside the tower, killing the horde one at a time.
The trick is to stay inside, since the majority of the horde just runs into the base and starts idling at the entrance, if they see someone else already trying to cap a tower.
Assuming the rest of the alliance just rushes south and assuming the horde won't start fighting the endboss before both dun baldar towers are down, we'll win. and 9 out of 10 times that works.

It only works during the times the most kids are playing though.

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+1

I love how amazingly strong "the hill" in horde base is. here seen on the left:
http://images.wikia.com/wowwiki/images/2/2a/FWKeep.jpeg

Alliances eventually goes down to FW base and will group up and play conquer the top on that hill. As a stealth in many cases you're able to recap FW GY and/or both towers because they're undefended.

Since the Alliance base has a less clear overall view, Cyr's tactic should waste them a good amount of time.

You pass the Frostwolf Graveyard and go through the narrow choke point (an open gate essentially) into the horde base.

Rather than following the path and aggroing all of the NPC's, you move off of the path to the right.
As far right as you can be, but still able to run up the hill, essentially having run straight in from the choke instead of going to the left with the path.
Then you follow the road, without running on top of any of the horde NPC's.
You aggro a single horde NPC, who dies to 1-2 keystrokes of five toons doing DPS.
Then you're through the horde little hut, which is a safe point.

Exiting the hut, you have to sharply go right and then up a steep hill.
There is a narrow choke here, and both towers can shoot down at you.
It takes less than 10 seconds to move up and into either tower, at which point you're safe from both.
Unless you aggro the NPC's on the opposing tower, you're not shot on the way up the tower, and can cap the flag in the small room with all hostile NPC's (in both towers) still alive.

Instead of going into the narrow choke point, between the two towers...
You can run up the steep hill and go to the right.
There is a break in the fence/wall, at the back of the right most (approaching the base) tower.
None of the archers on the tower hit you from there.
You can get into the right tower, send your Wing Commander back to the alliance base and ascend that tower without getting shot, aside from the 5 seconds or so of going up that steep hill.

You can ignore both towers, run up the steep hill, and continue onwards to the horde graveyard.
You can then cap that flag, outside of the range of the archers on the towers.

If I was a solo non-stealth toon, rather than a boxer...
Without opposition from a horde player...
I could enter the horde base, and cap both towers without any danger of dying from the NPC's if they are simply not engaged.



Comparatively, the alliance base has a very long choke point (the bridge), which cannot be circumvented.
The only way into the base is across the bridge.

Any class with a knockback effect (Druid - Typhoon, Shaman - Thunderstorm) can easily defend against a swarming or run past tactic with a keystroke.
Plus they take massive falling damage, which is a percentage of maximum health.
Meaning no matter how geared you are, if you were below 75% life you die, otherwise you're very hurt.

The alliance towers are actually bunkers.
The archers have greater line of sight, as you ascend.
You need to kill one of them at least, and position yourself properly to cap the flag with the archers still up.

The alliance archers have a much larger kill zone, or area where a horde is hit unless they're stealthed.
A solo non-stealth horde character will have a much harder time capping both alliance bunkers.



As a ranged boxer, or for that matter as a 4x DK + Healer boxer, alliance bunkers are generally easier to take or defend, because you can just stand on the ramp/stairs up, and Death Grip or cast freely at anyone at the top of the donut ring.

The horde towers are harder to get up into, but once you're there it is a smaller area.
Which makes them far easier to defend as a melee boxer.
But for casters you're in melee automatically, which can make things a bit harder.

In general, alliance bunkers are easier to defend than horde towers as a boxer.
As alliance bunkers are easier to take than horde towers, as a boxer.



Each AV is a combination of Player vs NPC's (PvE) play.
With a small mix of players pursuing opposing objectives and occasionally actually killing each other.

The PvE aspect of the game seems to favor the alliance, by a large degree.
The only serious edge the horde has, is that Galv is a lot tougher than Belinda.

In the later stages of an expansion, with the gearing relative to the NPC's, the PvE is more and more of a joke.
Galv is dead in 10-15 seconds, with only half the alliance force there.
Every AV I've run in 4.3 (granted not many), has been a PvE race and a short game.
Many of these featured highest total kills (honor kills, not killing blows) on either faction in single digits.

In the earlier stages of the expansions I've boxed (BC, WotLK, Cata), AV is a grindfest.
Most of the NPC's are much harder to kill.
The Generals are next to impossible, unless at least three of the towers/bunkers are burnt and many groups cannot kill them unless all towers/bunkers are burnt.
The vast majority of these (on my battlegroup at least) end with an attrition victory, rather than a slain General (by most, I mean 80-90%); in such an attrition match, 100 resources for a Captain slain virtually guarantees victory if your Captain survives.

Where you are in an expansion, or rather average gearing in relation to NPC strength... influences the play of AV to a very large degree.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I tried a numerous number of strategies with varied results. My first attempt at defending the Horde towers was met with failure. The Alliance liked to put 5+ people in each and by the time I made it to the top, I had lost one or two priests due to pathing. In the end my favorite strategy was to hide my team in one of our towers and prevent them from capping.

My favorite game occurred while doing the AV trinket quest. I collected quest item, and since it was to late to try and help the offence, I ran to Tower Point and tried to defend it. En route I lost all three of my slaves (due to pathing) and only got one to the flag where it was defended by a lone Paladin. I throw him off the tower with a mind control and proceed to cap the tower with >30 seconds to it burning. After which I book it on over to Drek, arriving just in time to fear bomb their entire raid. They kill my team and we win with Drek having 500k life. Which is how much HP my team had.