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I`m ready to run a nice melee pvp team with my holy paladin. I`m looking into 3 different melee classes to go with:
4 rets (at 80 allready but will cost me some transfers)
4 warriors
4 dk`s
The warriors really looked like something good however after the innitial hype a month ago or so I barely seen any info on it anymore :(
Anyone running them at 85 allready? PVP and or PVE
Thanks
4 warriors kinda work for PVE, not very well. 1 tank 3 arm + 1holy, it is not made for heroics. You can only do it when you overgear the cata heroic (which is not that hard to do, 371 pvp gear from BGs).Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I was talking about warriors a month ago. I am now running them at level 85. ALmost done with collecting PVP gears. I am not as confident as I was a month ago though lol. Warriors have some issues:
1. Warrior damage is pretty decent. Probably highest burst as melee with that 1 shot macro (if you don't know what that is, google "one shot macro warrior", swifty has a video explaining it)
2. Warrior needs support/management. Playing 4 warriors + 1holy paladin by yourself would not work, at least in arena. Warriors don't have that 15% walk speed. and you can't use heroic leap effectively when boxing. So if you don't kill your target with bladestorm, you will be kited. (even DK can kite you). You need healers to dispel you to continue dps.
3. If you play 4 warriors only, and let someone else handle the healing. This would work somewhat. But for me personally, I still replace with 1 DK to play 1 DK + 3 warriors. Just for deathgrip. You will go crazy in arena (dalaran sewer) if the other team keep abusing the ledge and your warrior have to go all the way around to chase someone.
Rets and DKs are not without their own problems. But if you plan on playing all 5 by yourself, I would not recommend warriors.
How about 4x enhancement, anyone knows the state on those? They look soooooo good on paper but I`m still doubtfull on them in practice. Course with a holy pala
Well i was just talking about enhance yesterday.
Melees. I got them all with raf!
I firmly believe, if you play all 5. DK + 4Rets is the only way to go.Quote:
well. I did some 5 boxing with Rets/Enhance shaman. Funny I keep going back to shaman thinking it would work. Reality is : enhance shaman doesn't work. All teams (I mean all teams) focus fire shaman when they see that blue bar arena frame vs pink.
And melee, I need at least 1 DK. Otherwise the other team is going to abuse the ledge and its over for me when I fall off due to IWT spam. So TSG here I come.
and everything looks good on paper until you get stunned and output no damage(enhance shaman), or rooted without a range attack (warrior), and Rets damage are kinda shitty.
That leaves like only 1 option of you know what.
Remanz is sorta right.
Warriors
Warriors have a lot of problems but their burst is absolutely fucking retarded. A single warrior if left to reck + bladestorm + pop trinkets will do more than 50% of someone's HP.
Catching up to your targets who have run speed boosts isn't as difficult as its been pointed out, you can abuse the larger range of Piercing howl for AOE slow at 10 yards. Heroic leap is usable while boxing if you can set the camera angles and make buttons to go to those angles when you are about to do it... keep in mind though that your slaves will be a few feet behind your main when you do it because they won't be 100% stacked on the move. Another thing about warriors is that they are sitting ducks for mages... if you do not get a 4-5 on 3 then game should be over if they have any mages. Their damage increases over time as well which can make them do some huge numbers... and that "one shot" macro will kill someone no matter what.
Rets
Simply put you do not want 4 rets... you want 3 and either a DK or a rogue. Main reason being... you have NO slows whatsoever. Their wings are easily spell stolen so you better kill someone FAST if theres a mage on the opposing team. They rely heavily on procs and that is very hard to coordinate (though not impossible). On the plus side every 10 seconds you can save a teammate from dying (healer or 4th dps) and you have loads of utility. You are a one trick pony though and as soon as bubble and wings are used you are a sitting duck as they have very little sustained damage.
My opinion
Only play 5 in bgs. Level and gear either warriors + rets or dks + rets. Lead from the ret, grab yourself a disc priest or resto shaman healer and do 3's.
I'm sitting around 2100 on my quad dk team... its much harder now that the hungering cold nerf went through.
I personally am leveling shammies, warriors and rets because i like the challenge...plus the damage output of all three are retarded during a burst phase. Of the three teams you are best off running a dk team if you want to have the least stress possible. I do not think dk + 4 rets is the only way to go... dks require almost zero interaction once you set them up correctly the only thing i do is have set focus and then they are good to go for timed silences etc etc... so you CAN heal yourself (i did it to 1900) but it is not recommended.
My focus however is not really high rated arena. More BG`s(rated) and maybe a arena here and there for fun. And I would love to keep my holy pala active for it.
Are people still running 1dk with 4rets?
I guess for bg facemelting the holy+4dk setup still works?
Would be a waste to levelup a new melee team, going through gearing and finding out it sucks :-)
Maybe 4 ferals are worthy trying out since the 4.2 ferocious bite along with a healer? Just trowing something in :-)
If only 4elemental shamans still worked..........:(
Oh BGs.
non-rated, anything goes. you can pick a goofy team if you want. 5 druids or something.
Shodokan is pretty spot on those points. I am pretty biased on DK + 4Rets , as DK + 4Rets can do heroic. But that's just me.
I am currently on warrior for that 1 shot macro burst trick. Once that's nerfed, warrior is out.
i got my warriors at 85, gearing thema tm, the HUGE problem with this team is the fact that you get kited SO easy, tho i have to say 4x bladestorm VS a melee team is damn fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Healing with a paladin is ok, tho i would really suggest getting a solo healer for this setup, so you can control your Intimidatin shout / throw down timings correctly
im just a few epics so i havent unlocked the "true" potential of the team, but this is what ive gatherd so far..
Zool
Ioso / Grim Batol
I have 5 warriors and they suck. I cannot figure out a good dps macro to use and they get rooted and kited way to easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
i found maximizing ret dps to be a pain..what system do you use? And you do heroics with no dedicated healer? dk tanks and rets do all the healing needed?
yep. can do heroics with just 4 rets healing. Not all heroics though,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyonheart
I did about half of all heroics. and that was months ago. Right now with 371 gears, should be able to give ZA a try.
As for ways of DPS, no clear cut (or legit) way to maximize Ret's DPS. The window conditional block is the only way to max it. But that's sort of in the grey area for breaking the TOS. I'd not go there again, not worth taking a risk for such a small gain. Plus, you don't always use 3 holy power to dps. Sometimes you need it to heal.
So I use power aura classic to show a big icon in slave windows, just to give me an idea on number of holy powers I have. Then I make a judgement call there to spam TV or WOG.
Enhance shamans HAVE to be paired with DK(s). They absolutely HAVE to be.
1) You can rely on DK HB spam to keep people snared. If you run frost weapon on at least one guy, unleash elements will reduce their movement to 70%.
2) Shamans have limited root breaking and while they can put out a decent bit of DPS at range with shocks+unleash elements, grip solves a major problem for them.
I'd say those are the two main reasons why 2 DK's + 2 or 3 enhance shamans is going to work better than just enhance shamans.
Dks are the only melee class that does not get "kited." Also warrior DPS is the same way to "macro" as frost dks... a priority system. execute > colossus smash > rend macro (that has 6 mortal strikes after it, change on target) > over power a 2nd button for heroic strike for when you have too much rage. I two shot mobs (while leveling ofc)Quote:
Originally Posted by pinotnoir
If you are talking about bgs then go with dks. If you are going to do arena it is very possible to do well with dks, warriors and rets (though not 4 rets + healer... 3 + rogue would be better).
Warrior damage is high and yes they do have problems with being rooted but people continually play with paladins for whatever reason, a priest fixes that problem (i play 4 dks + priest in 5's)
If you want an honest opinion of warriors... they are a two trick pony that if it doesn't work you are going to lose. Unlike DKS you have a huge amount of burst TWICE. You are just as mobile as frost dks with the exception of death grip... which to be honest in arena is great vs teams with a mage but there are tons of them that have no mages. There are TONS of melee cleaves in 5's which you can roflstomp. Like my dks i will be playing with a priest on my warriors for the anti-AOE root you get with mass dispel.
As far as rated bgs go? Theres too much control required and you'd honestly be better off with dks or shaman in rated bgs.
I agree with the gist of Shodokan. Warriors are really a one or two trick pony but too easily negated. What makes DK's really special is the reverse mobility of grip, and the constant ranged DPS generated by HB.
The thing with warriors is...Oh sweet baby raptor jesus what a trick or two they have.
Intimidating shout has no DR last I checked, and round robin Int shouting is going to cause serious problems for anyone caught in more than 1 of them.
Brostorm (reck+bladestorm) is just a wtfpwnagebomb you can drop on someones face. If you land those abilities with effect, they are going to win you the match. If you fail, you're up shit creek without a paddle.
Intimidating shout has no DR ?? Isn't it just fear ?
Or you mean Piercing Howl. 50% slow is 50% slow. You slowed him, but you had no 15% walk speed. That holy paladin or shaman are still likely gonna out run you after charge is used. Needs that knock down to do damage.
It is a horror and does not share DR with fears (as there are so few of them)... i'll check about the DR between themselves a bit later.Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
That 15% run speed doesn't effect other high warriors in 3's, why should it matter any more simply because we are playing more of them? If they out-range you... you get charge every 3 seconds on round robin.... plus you have throwdown and a horror.
Reck+Bladestorm in 3's inside a smokebomb while your rogue is controlling their healer so they can't come inside of it.... leads to a kill nearly 100% of the time... imagine 4 of those after you fear.... they trinket and eat another fear (from my healer)
Hell... double warrior + ret are at 2500, double warrior + spriest are at 2400... and there are many double warrior + healer above 2200.
Also... they have 8% increased movement speed from their boots, which is enough.
Why is 4 warriors not great in PvE? On my Druid I'm able to heal through a DPS warrior tanking most heroics, though would probably need one of them to go Prot for ZA/ZG. So for regular heroics, wouldn't 4 melee DPS be great with cleaves and such?
Might be better off with a 4 dk team with one in blood presence and taunt added into his rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoko
I faced a 3 warrior 1 rogue 1 holy pala team yesterday, and my 4 shamans died faster then I could react. Rogue stunned my priest, warriors popped reck and bladestorm. Got off 1 spell and dropped a warrior down to 40 %, by that time all shamans were dead. Warriors are too OP atm :/
Thats what i'm going to be running lmfao, if they aren't a paladin healer rogue can just kidney, if they trinket just blind and get at least two free kills, priest puts barrier down on the ground so you take normal damage while in reck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita
Warrior have no range attack (ok 2 range attack with long CDs). It supposes to do most melee damage. They are not better than DKs as HB is just too good. 1 Rogue 3 DKs would kill the shamans just as quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita
I ran DK + 3 Warriors + shaman healer (finally got a healer) now. This combo works somewhat unless the other team is like all wizards with kiting. Priest would be a better healer for this team as my warriors get kited a lot. Also my shaman healer dies a lot. Its hard to save him when I only have 1 DG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
Warriors are the bane of MB'rs ;p
Brostorm is just going to wreck your life.
I did some more matches with DK+Rets and Warriors.
I can conclude Rets ain't working too well either. Falling into the same catergory as enhance. My Rets had hella time killing any healers. The damage is just not there. They strip my wings every time. The Rets do last for a long time as I can stretch the match longer, but fail to kill the target every time also.
So this pretty much leaves us with DK/Warrior/ , and Rogues ?
Rogues are impossible to box with other classes because of the stealth aspect of it IMO... but smokebomb can really do well for you in specific situations (losing CC for the most part)Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
I'm not sure about warriors though... we'll see how it goes in like a week after mine are geared to the teeth. I may just gear a ret and run ret/dk and grab a feral friend... rotating the dks.
Just thought i should update... mostly geared... and i cannot pull a win if my life depended on it... it took me 4 hours to get 10 wins for the week.
Lol damn that's lame
My 5 warriors are fun to play in Tol.