Ugh, PUGs, stupid, stupid, stupid ...

Rant on.

So, I thought I'd PUG a little to gear up my healer. All of us in the PUG are level 82 in normal vortex pinnacle. I don't play too much, but I figure I can heal. But it really, really irks me when a tank pulls when I'm out of mana after a long fight and then is surprised when he dies. I said oom in party chat. Of course he quits group, right at the last boss. FFS, can't anyone pay attention to mana bars anymore?

Or is it the case, that despite me being able to keep everyone alive, other healers at level have oodles of mana. Bah.

Anyway, back to boxing for me. At least my failures are my own. /sigh

Rant over.

I don't feel your pain as I've never done a PUG dungeon since 2008.

:D

Haha. My mistake trying to PUG! (I needed to vent. People like that are rude.)

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Originally Posted by Jafula

Or is it the case, that despite me being able to keep everyone alive, other healers at level have oodles of mana. Bah.

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Not you at all. At least my healer didn't have oodles of mana at 82. Even with all sorts of buffs and offhealing from my other toons, I leaked mana like a sieve in tough fights. Failtank didn't want to admit he couldn't read, IMO.

Tank's a moron, that's obvious.

I pug with my 3 frostDK's as triple dps. Can't say that hasn't been succesful. Had 1 crapgroup, where the tank waited so long before every pull without any reason (healer full mana, everyone close to tank) that the pulling took more time then the actual killing of mobs. Then I tell him that he should speed up a bit and on the next find the the tank dies without no reason. After waiting over a minute after combat ended (I tanked after he died) the Healer still didn't ress the tank. I quit then.

That was the only negative group so far. Quite amazed myself how well it went, so far people really know what they're doing and we're rushing through the instance. Tank pulling multiple packs + me AoEing = profit.

To look on the bright side, bad players often quit the groupe by themselves before you have to kick them and without even having said a single a word (no hi but no insult either).

if the tank leaves your group, just let the dungeon finder replaces it for you, you'll be at the top of the queue so it will usually be a matter of seconds before you get a new one.

That being said, I've been avoiding pugs like plague for a while, because I hate "rushing" stuff without anyone ever saying anything. If there is to be no social interaction at all, I'd rather play alone :D

Might I recommend a really cool hobby. It's called multiboxing! It's crazy! You don't ever have to pug again and you keep all the lootz!!

Heheheh, just kidding ya Jafula. Doubt you could pay me enough to random pug again my friend.

I did some PUGs with a low 80 warrior tank and healer (solo one at a time) to catch up with my already 85 teams and that reminded me why I started multiboxing in the first place. Out of the maybe 25 dungeons I did there were only 2 groups that actually played together and in the end those groups stayed together and queued up for 3-4 more dungeons.

Queing up my warrior tank for heroics just to have a look went even worse - after explaining that its my first heroic dungeon I got voted out. That is with 20-30 minutes time waiting for another tank.

Levelling up my warrior tank through dungeons so far, currently through outlands. During the day / early evening chances to get utter morons in my group seems to be way higher than during the night. I've had mostly decent players. Yesterday I got the top, a disc priest who outdps'd the 3 other dps... still made it without a problem. There is zero skill involved to clear the lower dungeons.

When Cata came out I levelled a brand new character from 1-85 instead of taking any of my 80s the last 5 levels.

After hearing that Bliz were actually going to make dungeons hard, and that CC would be required again, I made a survival hunter, for the ability to CC 3-4 mobs by myself (even though I wasn't impressed that Bliz had given the spec the most CC plus the most damage at the time).

I did 1-58 by questing, to see what all the new areas were about (meh, linear, lo real choices about how to go through a zone, so none of the replay value we had before).

I did 58-68 pugging dungeons in Outland, in between doing the Alliance quests (new alt being my first real alliance character), and thoroughly enjoyed some of those dungeons, once I'd worked out that I should save all of my cooldowns for myself, wait until the rest of the party had managed to kill themselves by pulling too much and breaking each other's CC (and plenty of OOM pulling of course).

On a couple of occasions I was the only person to survive a pull (even with feign death on cooldown), thanks to knowing the PvP basics such as CCing the crap out of everything to even the odds, kiting, and juggling both targets and CC. In Setthek halls I think I cleared another 2 packs while the rest of the group ran back, to save myself the pain of watching them do it. I died on the last boss in there, (guess which arcane nova the rest of the party died on, after being told to LoS) but also managed to survive long enough to kill him with Serpent Sting.

Back in Northrend I went back to Questing (at least there's still some choices you can make there in each zone).

Cata?

Urgh, nasty! I don't think a single attempt at a dungeon made it past the 2nd pull thanks to the usual drool-proof-keyboard crew trying to tank and AOE several packs at once with no CC at all. (Not even playing at 4am got rid of them).

A couple of months later I tanked one of the new dungeons on my 80 tauren druid, with my guild's new 80-something goblin alts, expecting it to be tough thanks to the swipe nerf. No CC was needed anywhere anymore. No-one died. I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to be doing, and wasn't keeping aggro, but my guild know how to play, and could solo the mobs they'd pulled. Even the healer.

GG Bliz. Nice nerfs. The retarded developer for retarded players.

I guess we all had bad experiences in pugs, I once had a paladin that refused to use mana. And I don't mean to off heal when he was ret I mean plain and simple no skills used ever :confused:

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Originally Posted by Mukade

Cata?

Urgh, nasty! I don't think a single attempt at a dungeon made it past the 2nd pull thanks to the usual drool-proof-keyboard crew trying to tank and AOE several packs at once with no CC at all. (Not even playing at 4am got rid of them).

A couple of months later I tanked one of the new dungeons on my 80 tauren druid, with my guild's new 80-something goblin alts, expecting it to be tough thanks to the swipe nerf. No CC was needed anywhere anymore. No-one died. I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to be doing, and wasn't keeping aggro, but my guild know how to play, and could solo the mobs they'd pulled. Even the healer.

GG Bliz. Nice nerfs. The retarded developer for retarded players.

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Well, arguably, people liked it the way it was in WotLK judging by the accelerated loss of account subs. So A) people liked it that way and B) Blizzard trained people to do it that way, so it's no surprise that people were surprised when Cata dungeons didn't react well to the same style of play. If they'd roll back the 4.0 talent homogenization in addition to the other recent changes (read: nerfs), I might actually re-sub.

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Originally Posted by Jafula

Rant on.

So, I thought I'd PUG a little to gear up my healer. All of us in the PUG are level 82 in normal vortex pinnacle. I don't play too much, but I figure I can heal. But it really, really irks me when a tank pulls when I'm out of mana after a long fight and then is surprised when he dies. I said oom in party chat. Of course he quits group, right at the last boss. FFS, can't anyone pay attention to mana bars anymore?

Or is it the case, that despite me being able to keep everyone alive, other healers at level have oodles of mana. Bah.

Anyway, back to boxing for me. At least my failures are my own. /sigh

Rant over.

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There are only two things I feel compelled to write here.

Jafula, dude, you got a craptacular tank. Unfortunately, (and I know this is like preaching to the choir), we all know that you're playing Russian roulette when you PUG. Very good experienced players know how to tank, watch for key triggers, dps and know how to drop aggro, or stop dpsing to save a tank or healer or CC if needed, and healers who know how to manage mana effectively and generally keep themselves out of trouble for the tank AND dps. Those good players are few...

which seugways into the few. I have seen, and continue to see, from my experiences from beta wow, to today, a multiboxer has the standard understanding and skills to do what is needed to accomplish a task, and ignore the noobish tactics of , as an example "being top dpser". I have stated and continue to maintain through so many examples, how Blizz's cater to its client base shows us, the more than average player is a complete bafoon. They are there for themselves, focused on the instant gratification of their own toon, and worried solely about what they are doing and how they top a chart, or pull fast, or generally blow shit up.


I do find myself on occasion to have to level a toon solo to keep up with a particular team. Its almost unavoidable.

When I heal solo, I warn the team early on. "if Im 30% mana or more, please pull, if not, you risk your own toons death."
If I get kicked. fine. it was a group I neednt be in, in the first place.
If I stay and they do it anyway, I continue to drink as each one of them perish. "Inc rez."

Ive had to adapt my play style some, to play in the "all for me" game. Especially in PUGs.

Greedy Goblin has a good post today titled 'The fact of the bad group'.

Quoting: "With 2 hard mode kills I'm a fairly good WoW player, up in the top 5%. Your chance to bump into me at a random Zandalari heroic is exactly 0 as I never go with a non full guild team (actually I don't go at all). On the other hand the worst players are rejected from every teams, so they are overrepresented in random groups where they cannot be booted instantly after their first stunt."

There is a lot of truth in that statement, many good players avoid using the lfd tool and run with premade groups.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jafula

Rant on.

So, I thought I'd PUG a little to gear up my healer. All of us in the PUG are level 82 in normal vortex pinnacle. I don't play too much, but I figure I can heal. But it really, really irks me when a tank pulls when I'm out of mana after a long fight and then is surprised when he dies. I said oom in party chat. Of course he quits group, right at the last boss. FFS, can't anyone pay attention to mana bars anymore?

Or is it the case, that despite me being able to keep everyone alive, other healers at level have oodles of mana. Bah.

Anyway, back to boxing for me. At least my failures are my own. /sigh

Rant over.

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Welcome to my world. Attitude's like your tank's are predominant in PUGs. Most don't have any patience or pay attention. Give me back the good old days where you had to spam trade chat to get a group, then travel 20 mins to the instance portal. That taught people patience. It was also ridiculously annoying, but at least people didn't drop group at the first wipe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fuzzied

I guess we all had bad experiences in pugs, I once had a paladin that refused to use mana. And I don't mean to off heal when he was ret I mean plain and simple no skills used ever :confused:

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Oh my goodness... This person auto-attacked everything? That's even worse experience than what a normal PUG would provide. That's a poor raider's worst nightmare. NOOB's auto attacking in a boss fight! My Condolences.

The thing that bothers me the most about these encounters with utter retards is that these people are real. They live somewhere in the world, go to work, drive their cars, etc. How do they even accomplish those tasks if they can't follow simple instructions in a video game? It astonishes me at how stupid people are in WoW, I really wonder how they function in real life without professional help or mental support.

Amazing.

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Originally Posted by d0z3rr

The thing that bothers me the most about these encounters with utter retards is that these people are real. They live somewhere in the world, go to work, drive their cars, etc. How do they even accomplish those tasks if they can't follow simple instructions in a video game? It astonishes me at how stupid people are in WoW, I really wonder how they function in real life without professional help or mental support.

Amazing.

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Consider that some folks have a very hard time with situational awareness. Others have a cognitive block in understanding the concept of a virtual avatar. The same folks who suck at video games would also probably make terrible aircraft pilots. My mother can't think in cardinal directions to save her life, yet we got along fairly well.

Point being, there are other considerations. ;)

A famous quote I once read:

"Every guild has good and bad players, and every guild has awful scrubs that you'd think couldn’t exit their room in the morning because operating a door handle might be too challenging for them"

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Originally Posted by Kang

Welcome to my world. Attitude's like your tank's are predominant in PUGs. Most don't have any patience or pay attention. Give me back the good old days where you had to spam trade chat to get a group, then travel 20 mins to the instance portal. That taught people patience. It was also ridiculously annoying, but at least people didn't drop group at the first wipe.

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/shudder - I really hated those good old days. I remember spamming trade chat and traveling to the instance portal, it took ages to get to SM, running through Hillsbrad, Alterac, Silverpine and Tirisfal...

Actually had to run there recently with my 5 shammys since they can't use the dungeon finder; this time going through Western Plaguelands; was kind of nostalgic, but still a PITA!

PUGs are the reason I started to multibox. I only dual boxed in vanilla before I quit. I did PUGs back then, and people where more considerate and it wasn't go go go go from the moment we stepped into an instance. When I came back it was hell. I couldn't remember any of the dungeons, and read up on them, but people just started running the moment the instance loaded and chain pulled the entire dungeon(2-3 packs at a time), granted we never wiped. Granted I died a lot since I did not have a fat bankroll to outfit my toon, nor any heirlooms.

So I decided I wanted to learn how to play these dungeons, and started five boxing. Never looked back since then. We sometimes do a "PUG" with two-three guild mates for heroics as not all my toons have iLevel to do heroics yet, but after I multiboxed two DPSers in our guild group to avoid randoms, the other guys said their PUG days are over. It went smoother, and nobody left group at the first wipe.

Now, I do want to defend the regular joes out there. With the exception of maybe one or two in my guild, the rest of them(RL friends) do worse or comparable DPS to me multiboxing. I sometimes scream at my walls because of their crappy understanding of the game, but it boils down to this. They want to log on and have fun not spend an hour or two perfecting their rotation at the training dummies, or get enough money to buy a certain upgrade. These are intelligent and fairly coherent people, not dumb monkeys who barely survive in the world. :) Granted my friends who play do not act like elitist jerks or dumb noobs when in pugs etc. They always tell people if we pug that we're not all that great so if you don't like wiping, you might just quit now.

Granted some of the classes do have a bit "confusing" abilities, also the interaction of the GCD on your dps it hard to get for some people. Even I was baffled. I included an instant cast fire spell in my rotation and my overall dps dropped. I was baffled, I thought I'd get a bit more dps. So then I got why Elitist Jerks didn't mention it in their fire mage rotation.

But then again, I'm the guy that reads the forums and various site related to wow, then goes tries what they say out on the training dummy. Most people just want to get into the game and play.

What I hate is that here isn't a step between normal and heroic. Normals are a faceroll for me and my guildies, but Heroics usually end up being painful, as most of my guildies cannot output more than 6-8k dps. So we don't kill stuff fast enough, and I think our healer OOMs a bit too fast. So since I have a disc priest just like him, I'm gonna gear her for heroics and ask to heal once, to teach him a few things.

Last but not least, in general people are just f... rude. I'm sorry to say I am loosing faith in humanity as a race. They(we) are more likely to bed down and rob you when you've fallen, then helping you up.

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Originally Posted by d0z3rr

The thing that bothers me the most about these encounters with utter retards is that these people are real. They live somewhere in the world, go to work, drive their cars, etc. How do they even accomplish those tasks if they can't follow simple instructions in a video game? It astonishes me at how stupid people are in WoW, I really wonder how they function in real life without professional help or mental support.

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I try to think as least as possible about things like that. Allthough I think a large portion is the gap in the last 2 generations. The people who grew up with PC's etc and the parents who didn't. And some people yeah well. The more time they spent in a game, the less chance there is they hurt people irl.

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Originally Posted by Kang

Welcome to my world. Attitude's like your tank's are predominant in PUGs. Most don't have any patience or pay attention. Give me back the good old days where you had to spam trade chat to get a group, then travel 20 mins to the instance portal. That taught people patience. It was also ridiculously annoying, but at least people didn't drop group at the first wipe.

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+1

I practically leveled my Feral in Instances. Running Sunken temple was close to raiding. You really needed people who were up for it, did some good dps and understood basics. Especially the healer. Those were times :D I'd love to see that Blizzard created 3 dungeons somewhere which would not be reachable through LFD due to some magical disturbance or whatever. So for people who'd like to have some more fun, they can go there and enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by d0z3rr

The thing that bothers me the most about these encounters with utter retards is that these people are real. They live somewhere in the world, go to work, drive their cars, etc. How do they even accomplish those tasks if they can't follow simple instructions in a video game? It astonishes me at how stupid people are in WoW, I really wonder how they function in real life without professional help or mental support.

Amazing.

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To me, it's the same thing as using proper grammar when posting to web forums. I've heard the excuse, over and over, how that particular person was just posting a quick message and doesn't want to think too hard about grammar, as their job during the day has something-or-other to do with grammar or spell checking.

If you really have to think that hard about grammar, then you are a moron. Period.

Same thing with playing WoW. I bet there are a lot of people who use the excuse that it is just a game, and they want to have fun and not worry too much about thinking, hence their fail-play. I guess they find it fun to die and run back to the instance. It really is NOT that hard to play WoW. That's why I multibox - at least it is a challenge (post-WOTLK anyways).

Jafula, don't feel bad at man. I am sure you did well given the circumstances.

now I'll tell ya the tale of LoupGarroux, the LvL 60 something Druid.

I hoped on to that toon, after having ran some pugs with my other toons, burning up rested. I hadn't played him in a while, but Knew, he was cool as a balance druid.

SO I hit the DF, and hit look for group, bam a dungeon is instant. . Holy crap, it logged me in as a healer, ok , I won't panic, I'll ask for a few seconds to switch specs.

Except my other spec is Feral.

So I continue with this group, using 3 healing spells trough about 5 dungeons, and the only loss was the Tank, when he pulled the whole round room in the First hellfire Dungeon.

But man, I felt like an ass, I was scared that someone would check my spec and boot me, but they never did. It was also a good learning experience for me, what with Nourish and being able to heal on the spot, should my group ever loose their healers.

I dropped Feral and grabbed resto though later that night.

Stephen

I must be in a good battlegroup or something. 90% of my PUG experiences have been good. I've been PUGing with single toons, since I can't seem to get the hang of 5-boxing most heroics.

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Originally Posted by Bollwerk

I must be in a good battlegroup or something. 90% of my PUG experiences have been good. I've been PUGing with single toons, since I can't seem to get the hang of 5-boxing most heroics.

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Dungeon Finder, like Battlegrounds, are region wide. We're all in the same general population of people these
days except I remember hearing something about the Dungeon Finder trying to pair you up with people from
your own realm. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Fenril

Dungeon Finder, like Battlegrounds, are region wide. We're all in the same general population of people these
days except I remember hearing something about the Dungeon Finder trying to pair you up with people from
your own realm. /shrug

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that's true. It prefers people from your own realm.

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Originally Posted by Atrocious

...Last but not least, in general people are just f... rude. I'm sorry to say I am loosing faith in humanity as a race. They(we) are more likely to bed down and rob you when you've fallen, then helping you up.

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I conquer. I've said as much in g-chat.

Too be completely fair to the subject, I have been rude and obnoxious in PUGs. I generally try to keep a level head, but sometimes the stupid is just too much and I need to say something. Lately, I've taken a higher ground and tried to remember that it may be a 12 year old on the other end who just doesn't know any better. It doesn't make the actually experience any better, but at least I feel like a better person. I also drop group a lot more frequently so I don't blow a gasket.

Maybe this weekend I'll buy parts for a boxing machine...

Pretty amazing ... went 62 - 66 today on my warrior tank. Until about 23h i had utter shit groups. A feral druid who wanted his own mob, telling me I couldn't aoe tank cause i screw up his aggro , a rogue who managed to pull 110 dps in mana tombs and won every roll. A disc priest who was top dps. I've seen it all tonight. Not sure how the saying goes in English, but translated it would be something along the lines of 'reality supersedes fiction'.

Once past 23h the amount of crap people started to drop significantly up to the point (3h30 am now) I'm only getting really decent players in my groups. Which makes me think that it's partially age related, but also partially raid related (the good players are doing bg's & raids on mains in the evening, and swap later to their leveling alt).

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Originally Posted by zenga

Not sure how the saying goes in English, but translated it would be something along the lines of 'reality supersedes fiction'.

.

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"you couldn't make it up"
"Reality stranger than fiction"

WoW today is a race between designers working to build a better idiot-proof game, and the player base trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the player base is winning.

The biggest problem I've had with pugs recently is that I keep getting blamed by the healer for pulling (which only seems to happen on my warlock, I'm wondering if it's because of my life tap they think that I'm being hit lots when no one else is in combat) sure I pull accidently sometimes as I'm sure we all do, but they flat out refuse to heal me... when did this stop becoming a fun game to play and turn into a real life or death situation?! people need to lighten up a bit :D

The life tap problem I've heard of before, and seen in group. Also the drink/eat between fights or I wont heal you stick. Granted that one I sorta understand, but since most people just want to go go go, and half mana is usually enough for trash mobs one has to choose between go go go or stop to eat drink, one cannot have both. :)