[Theorycrafting] optimizing Team Beeq

Heya ;)

I've been using Rawr for a long time, but since it is still buggy as hell, I'm asking your opinions to push up my team's dps (5x arcane mages) even higher.
When it comes to relative stat values, and when my max target levels are 87, I think the following prios on stats are the best.

Hit rating +6% -> Intellect -> Haste -> Mastery -> the rest

Because of my plan is just to blow all the cooldowns and then AB spam down my target, these stat values seems correct (More ABs in less time while cooldowns are still up).
I think there won't be situation where mastery would be better than haste (famous haste caps on many classes..), but I'd like to hear this from you.

Download Simcraft, and run each of your character through it. It will tell you everything you need to optimize for each character.. Rotation, stat weight etc.

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Originally Posted by deadca7

Download Simcraft, and run each of your character through it. It will tell you everything you need to optimize for each character.. Rotation, stat weight etc.

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I chaged the region from options tab, but the importing fails :(

mastery seems almost useless to me, as it is a spec in which all of your mana is in a state of almost constant run-out-ed-ness.. I find anyway..

Ok haste has usefulness until you drop AB below 1.5 seconds and then it's not as useful because you are global cooldown limited. Unless they fixed that, been a long time since I read EJ forums on mages.

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Originally Posted by Elitist Jerks

With the Patch 4.1 reduction in the AB cast time and given the levels of Haste present on current raid gear, it is now once again feasible to encounter the game mechanic of the Haste Cap; where under stacked spell haste conditions (such as Heroism/Bloodlust/Berserking) your AB cast time hits the 1 second GCD hard limit. Current analysis indicates that excess Haste be reforged to Hit or Mastery as required. Tools such as Rawr can calculate this for you if your appropriate raid buffs and spell haste effects are set correctly.

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So with lust you are haste capped. For bosses we are always using lust. I would reforge haste to mastery to a point that your haste + blood lust = 1.0 AB cast time.

just tested in game and 15% haste with lust is approx 1 sec cast time for AB (with full AB buff). I would convert all haste to mastery and crit after that.

When I single box, I raid on my resto druid or arcane mage.

Haste is okay, but is mostly useless after your AB cast time is already at 1 second which is very easy to get with 4-piece tier 11. So I usually stack hit to 17% > mastery > crit > haste.

But raiding is of course a very different environment than multiboxing with 5 mages. With no tank, of course you will be wanting maximum burst and mastery won't take as much effect, and you need a much smaller hit cap.

It matters a lot of if you have Heroism or not. Since you could stack a lot more haste without it.

I think Haste is most effective, then Mastery, then crit. (hitcap is must obviously.)

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Originally Posted by Littleburst

It matters a lot of if you have Heroism or not. Since you could stack a lot more haste without it.

I think Haste is most effective, then Mastery, then crit. (hitcap is must obviously.)

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the only time it matters is when you are killing a boss, so you will always have time warp. That means 15% haste is cap since less than 1 second ABs are haste capped. Mastery is the best stat after that. BTW most bosses last around 20-30 seconds, with the higher health pool bosses taking almost 40, which is perfect for time warp.

edit: and the fastest kill I have for a heroic boss is Corborus, with an amazing 10 second kill =D

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

edit: and the fastest kill I have for a heroic boss is Corborus, with an amazing 10 second kill =D

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10 seconds ?? My best is 12 with flasks and feasts :(

Got some 372 loot on them already? :P

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

the only time it matters is when you are killing a boss, so you will always have time warp. That means 15% haste is cap since less than 1 second ABs are haste capped. Mastery is the best stat after that. BTW most bosses last around 20-30 seconds, with the higher health pool bosses taking almost 40, which is perfect for time warp.

edit: and the fastest kill I have for a heroic boss is Corborus, with an amazing 10 second kill =D

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Oh yeah, mornin'. Forgot Time warp >.>

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Originally Posted by runtu

10 seconds ?? My best is 12 with flasks and feasts :(

Got some 372 loot on them already? :P

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I think I was really really lucky with crits on all my guys. Unfortunately I forgot to reset my recount before engaging so I have no idea what dps they were doing. I can only do 12 sec kills now. Just really really lucky I guess.

Got my other mage team to 85 today.

10 mages in BoT = :D:D

Here are some AB casting times with different stacks and other stuff.

AB = Arcane Blast stack amount
TW = Time Warp
WH = Witching Hourglass heroic (+1710 haste proc)

Gear = +15.08% haste (1502 haste rating)

0AB = 1.74
1AB = 1.65
2AB = 1.56
3AB = 1.48
4AB = 1.39
4AB+WH = 1.24

0AB+TW = 1.34
1AB+TW = 1.27
2AB+TW = 1.2
3AB+TW = 1.14
4AB+TW = 1.07
4AB+TW+WH = 0.955

As we can see here, even though the trinket is awesome, at certain point the proc just goes useless.
Tooltip shows AB casting time 0.955 at fastest, but if it is 1.000 sec actually, then that trinket proc gives only 0.07 sec haste, which is nothing.

ya I have found that for heroic instances trinkets with a use or proc +spellpower gets the best result on boss fights. I have alchemy mages for the epic trinket (+341int and haste) and my mage that is not an alchemist has +spellpower proc trinket instead. He always wins the dps race. I thought the extra mana pool and spell power from 341int would win, but nope.

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Originally Posted by runtu

Here are some AB casting times with different stacks and other stuff.

AB = Arcane Blast stack amount
TW = Time Warp
WH = Witching Hourglass heroic (+1710 haste proc)

Gear = +15.08% haste (1502 haste rating)

0AB = 1.74
1AB = 1.65
2AB = 1.56
3AB = 1.48
4AB = 1.39
4AB+WH = 1.24

0AB+TW = 1.34
1AB+TW = 1.27
2AB+TW = 1.2
3AB+TW = 1.14
4AB+TW = 1.07
4AB+TW+WH = 0.955

As we can see here, even though the trinket is awesome, at certain point the proc just goes useless.
Tooltip shows AB casting time 0.955 at fastest, but if it is 1.000 sec actually, then that trinket proc gives only 0.07 sec haste, which is nothing.

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Is this including the 3% haste from Netherwind Presence?

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Originally Posted by Akoko

Is this including the 3% haste from Netherwind Presence?

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Yes, all the goods from arcane talents included.

Mastery is superior to haste for Arcane. The point of Arcane is that you should only ever below 95% mana during your burn phase, after which you Evo back to full and start using missiles again.

95 % mana? So like 3 casts of AB and then use your evocate? Seems unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

95 % mana? So like 3 casts of AB and then use your evocate? Seems unlikely.

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AM is free. You use AM whenever it procs. You'll generally get an AM proc every 1-3 casts of AB (sometimes several in a row, with no AB's at all). With mage armor regenerating your mana, you can easily stay above 95%. The only time you use Evocate is after your cooldowns are finished, because you should have been spamming AB during cooldowns and be at around 40% mana, so Evo will fill your bar so you can begin your conservation phase again until your cooldowns are back up.

I'm sorry but you are not understanding how we run boxing mages. The point is to never use AM as we want to do as much dps as possible in the 30 secs that our images last. Using AM will reset your AB stack and kill your dps. I never use AM and have hit 50k dps on each Mage for the 30 sec duration. I'm curious how badly the AB nerf hurt us, but I haven't done any dungeons since 4.2 was launched.

I have been farming JPs with 2 new group compositions, AABBB and AAABB, where A is my first mage team, B is second.
Been clearing Blacrock Caverns, Stonecore and Shadowfang Keep fully, Deadmines 3 first bosses, Lost City Husam and Augh, also in Vortex Pinnacle the first boss.. and ZG bosses except Jin'do and haven't seen any effect on this so called "AB nerf" ;)
Goal is to farm JPs for 3x T11 and Soul Casket and probably ring upgrade.. and going to see if I can get my hands on T11 4set bonus later on and see if the bonus is that awesome that it might be..

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Originally Posted by runtu

I have been farming JPs with 2 new group compositions, AABBB and AAABB, where A is my first mage team, B is second.

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Probably faster to do AV and convert to JP while its still AV weekend. I'm looking at 8.5k honor generated after 9 hours.

Nerf was AB damage reduced by 5%. I dont crit over 100k anymore, like I used to...

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

Nerf was AB damage reduced by 5%. I dont crit over 100k anymore, like I used to...

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>.<
Just ridiculous...

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

Nerf was AB damage reduced by 5%. I dont crit over 100k anymore, like I used to...

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I suppose you're honored with the avengers already? The cape and the belt works nice on all my 10 toons! After some intense JP farming to get those 3x t11 and two more volcano trinket, I'll focus on farming 10 staves off the firelands.. that would "fix the 5%" and even more ;)

Just dunno.. Maybe I should start bringing the hit rating up where it really belongs.. 6% hit in 10man raids is no good, since the enemy I wish to kill are always the boss levels now, except the trash ofc.. 6% works for them..

btw, today my guild shat their pants at once..

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7759/...1173549.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Holy fuck. Heroic Shannox down 5 days after 4.2 release.

That's it, I'm rolling mages. I'm already working on my first set of 5, which were at level 60 collecting dust.

Once I'm finished, I'll consider doing 5x more and 10-boxing.

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Originally Posted by daanji

Holy fuck. Heroic Shannox down 5 days after 4.2 release.

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Well. Firelands heroics are not available atm, and even if they were, there is no way you could down even non-heroic Shannox with 10 mages. :P

But when 10 mages does "/g have earned the achievement" on the same second, for a while it looks real :D

So it turns out the new arena gear has better stats than T11. Also very sad but the T11 bonus is pathetic when arcane power is active, it works out to like 85 mana per 5 seconds. Woo woo.