Basically i'm just interested on what people think of boxing in Cata compared to boxing in Wrath.
If you could go back to any point in Wrath, would you? when and why?
I started boxing properly late in wrath and would like to go back to release and box from the on set.
i'd love to go back to vanilla and box that
I started several months into BC if I recall. I would love to go back to that point in time with what I know now. Hell with even half of what I know now.
And I'd also know to skip buying the Cata expansion until it's on sale somewhere. lol
I also started boxing during wrath and even though Cata is okay I still get annoyed by zone phasings and Cata dungeons seems (my experience so far) a lot more unfriendly for boxers.
So I do hope the next expansion will be more boxer friendly...
That's a tough one.
I started boxing in Burning Crusade, and that is my favorite era of Warcraft.
But my current favorite team is Death Knights, which weren't around back then.
I wouldn't mind if it was the BC world, with tough heroics and the raid content which I loved the most.
But with all the race/class combinations that are available up to and including Cataclysm.
Still a level 70 cap, and the old style of talents that did not force very cookie-cutter builds, with the exception of the final 10 points.
only problems i have with Cata are the healthpools.
As a boxer at level 40-60 you could get lucky and take down a level 70-80 toon. Now its like trying to kill a raid boss.
Sad thing is its only going to get worse.
Vanilla hitpoints = max of about 2200-3800 hps
Burning crusades = max of about 5000-11000 hps in epics and chants
Wrath = max of about 18,000-32,000 hps with pvp gear
Cata = max of about 110,000-160,000.
Thats a huge jump.... i just dont get it.. .its only 5 levels.
I imagine that I still had another 18 months of exploration to enjoy with a couple of friends. /shrug
I think they definitely overdid it with the jump in health pools. I get the feeling that they wanted to cut down on healing a bit without affecting WotLK levels and content, so they decided to increase healing a bit and increase health by a large amount. Because the increases were so large, it didn't feel as if the gear was making the improvement happen. On the other hand, it makes powerleveling even faster for a longer time, as you can absorb huge amounts of damage while rounding up mobs and then blast them to smithereens within one or two cooldowns.
From a single-player perspective, the more restrictive quest format wasn't so bad until you start leveling alts. From a multi-boxing perspective it is a bit of a problem in two ways-- you can't skip quests you don't want to finish (collection quests in particular) and the phasing can be a real headache. WotLK had phasing issues but Cata uses a lot more of it. The water zone was cleverly done but it can be a pain to navigate with a single player, much less a group.
I think that for any future expansions, they need to do what they did with the old world in Cata. Lots of small quest hubs that do not require pre-requisites and each tell a small part of a larger story. You can pick and choose quest hubs and skip the quests you don't want to do, and you only lose out on a few follow-up quests that don't affect anything else you do later on. Forcing us down a linear path with random phasing thrown in makes it less fun.
Well I've seen some Wrath characters with health pools of 45-60k of health with heroic raid gear on, and even maxxed out with epic PVP gear. really quite disconcearning when you start out with 10-15k of health when you first hit 80 if you're lucky. when my hunter hit 85 he was sitting at a cool 105k health!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oatboat
Now as to what point in wrath, I'd say roughly when the tournament came out. I started boxing 3 toons shorly after I hit 80 on my hunter and got into raids and what not. But then I saw a character known as Ace. A paladin with 4 mages all named Ace with alternating accented E's or C's.
I was first thinking to myself "Hey thats hacking" then uppon searching forums and chats, I came to realize it wasn't. So after getting capped toons at 80 in LK content I was able to raid with my pally and 2 mages, but I was really wanting to do 5 toon box, so I bit the bullet and when cata launched and I saw wow had a sale on the vanilla, BC and LK I just snapped up another two (don't know why I didnt' get another 20!!!!) and proceeded to level 85 with my first Pally/Shaman5 team!
But I wanted to have that compilation back with my first 3's team in LK but instead when the Tourney came out so I could farm those dailies and pull in tons of gold! However now in cata gold farming especially with 5 toons is like breathing air now lol.
Plain and simple i'd love to go back to wrath.
I am still in wrath, I never bought cata. So glad I didn't buy it because I would feel obligated to play.
So, I would take wrath at the patch where interact with target was added. That was a pretty good sweet spot for me.
It's kinda funny now, but I miss wintergrasp. So ya, Wrath.
The reason for the huge health pool increase in my opinion at least, is when enlist jerks or whoever the top guild was back at lvl 80 finally hit lvl 80, they did all raids in the game and cleared them before bliz could release the next set of raids.
They did this in level 70 epics, so a huge gear increase would almost force them to follow the 5 man>heroic 5 man> raid, chain we've all gotten used too.
That's my two cents anyways.
That is more of a reflection on the content that wrath was released with, I also remember clearing naxx 25 in two days with most of the people still wearing quest and sunwell gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kedash00
If you could, would you go back to Wrath? and Why or Why not?
No because I find the average level people play at in cataclysm higher than in wrath. The increased dungeon difficulty coupled with CC and actually having to pay attention to stuff might have to do with that. In wrath the lolkids where king and could tell you to shutup, now they shutup and try to improve themselves due to peer pressure, or they just stay far away from you. Long story short: I've noticed a change in attitude.
From a raiding perspective: the cataclysm raids are way more interesting and notably harder than wotlk dungeons. Bar ulduar I guess, but never raided ulduar when it was active content.
In cataclysm I don't like that whole trash & cc approach. I much more prefer having to maintain aggro on 5-6 mobs and chain pull than having to cc all the time. I don't see what skill is required to cc either. I was hoping that maintaining threat in cata would be more of a challenge, but unfortunately it's not.
From a theme / look and feel perspective I absolutely love the icy/winter theme of icecrown & icc. In cataclysm I can't say I particularly like a zone/instance/raid besides the new updated orgrimmar and to some extend uldum. But then again, I'm not really interested in lore nor do I have a clue about it.
In cata we have 2 wonderful BG's, but Tol Barad clearly loses it from wintergrasp in my book. The rated bg's add a whole new dimension to pvp as well.
Questing: I hate the fact that bliz takes us by the hand and leaves us no choice in quest progression. The phasing totally blows but they seem not to understand that.
The fact that we can fly now everywhere is a huge addition to the game.
So ... no way I want to go back to wotlk. Too many good things in cata.
WotLK was by far my favorite MMO expansion, ever! Just barely beating out Velious and Kunark from the original EQ.
I loved the setting. I loved the storyline. Loved the main villain. I loved the difficulty level, and the ease of progression with each patch. Loved Wintergrasp, hated Ulduar. And to me, ICC was the perfect difficulty level for an end-game raiding zone. Getting that Lich King kill before the launch of Cataclysm (though I was not actually multiboxing at the time) was the greatest thrill and most exciting moment of my entire WoW experience to date.
I didnt start boxing until around when Ulduar came out, and didnt get my first team to 80 until ToC was out for a bit. I would love to go back and start boxing LK from the beginning.
I feel exactly the same. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Khatovar
The good old days of stacking totems, chain bloodlust. AWW do I miss those days :S
Unfortunately you also had to stack shadow priests and we were always short on those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat
Edit: Gear progression in TBC was also absolutely garbage for certain classes, resto druids and shadow priests come to mind who went from crafted primal mooncloth healing set and the shadow weave thing to 4p t6, for most of ssc/tk and during bt/hyjal progression they wore the same gear.
Prot pallys were not viable either till t6 and even then they were wearing warrior pieces.
Yeah, me to! I really loved those wintergrasp battles. The new Tol Barad battles are very boring in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acidburning
Nope, I'd rather go back to Vanilla
BC > Was a pain (loved it though) but i was suck on kara full time and nerver moved up as we was in a small guild and each time we got the member we raid kara for 3 to 4 months getting them gear ready to move on and They would all Guild Hop in BC this happoned a lot you had to do 5m>5mhc>kara>BT>TK>Sunwell makeing alts was a pain you allways had to go back to the old raids the new system is better that you get the old tair from Hc's and when weekey quests come back you will see the older raids still.
Old out-door pvp in BC was crazy! but it was more of a pvp game. in BC and a lot of players used pvp gear in Hc's and dungons becouse the fact you had no choice unless you was to spend 6 weeks framing 5 mans for that one itam that would nerver drop. ok it was nulfed you BoJ started to droped from Hc's and Kara.
Wotlk Hell ya it was easy there was no normal mans they was olny used for leveling right in at 80 hc/naxx level all the same gear was a nice choice to do Raids or 5 man hc's. Getting to level 80 i would nerver nerver nerver do this becouse its nuts and even then i would like to take out my eyes. even now its a pain in harlooms and Guild xp and etc.....
PvP in Wolk i nerver did after being focsed to do it in bc for a few itams i did not do a lot of pvp ok arena you could lose games and get points. WG was great when it was a open pvp zone they had a really really good plan for it but it killed the systems so much it got changed,.........
Dara Lag No thanks
Cata pvp am loveing it. Ok dungons are a pain but even in Wotlk i was olny rolling Dungons like in ToC gear level so i was very very over geared for it. Very! i think cata is far to slow this is the longest pvp season ever so far i swar!
i like cata like someone said flying old world new quest chains if makeing alts guild peeks is nice i like them it makes you try and do stuff more as a guild.
Oh and i fooking hate TOL!!!! and the fact blizzard said they would add more Ballegrands each patch and we yet to see a new arana map even one they said is fixxxed is not fixxed!!!
I found Kara and SSC to be immensely fun raids.
And liked the BC progression Max Level > Dungeons > Max Level Dungeons > Heroics/Kara > Gruul's > SSC/TK/Magtheridon's Lair.
My main raiding toon (Felguard-Warlock) was in a guild that defeated Vash'j and Kael'Thas a little before Hyjal/BT was opened without needing to defeat those encounters.
Being stuck behind them might not have been quite as fun.
My other toons were in a friendly/family type guild.
Had close to twenty toons across the accounts in close to full Kara level gear.
My first post here in quite some time, as I haven't 5/6-boxed in about 2 years. My reason for no longer boxing? I no longer found it fun due to changes in class mechanics and dungeon design. I actually welcome these changes - every class should be a priority-based system instead of strict rotations. I have no idea why Blizz didn't start Vanilla WoW in this manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by valkry
My ideal WoW?
- The original XP progression from the Nov.2004 release. Yes, being level 60 used to actually mean you played the game quite a bit for a long time, but it also meant that from 1-60, you met a lot of people grouping up for quests. I actually really miss old school mage AoE xp grinding for levels. Took some skill to do it fast & right without a pocket healer.
- Current class/race combinations and skills.
- Current 85 level cap, but streamline gear, skill power, health, and enemies in a more linear fashion.
- Current content, but spread it out over levels 1-85 better.
- Current fly-anywhere world. Lower the level requirement for all mounts even more. This game shouldn't be a travel time-sink any more than it already is.
- Removal of current cookie-cutter one-tree to 31 talent point restriction. Bring back true hybrid builds, damned if they're not ideal for raiding/PvP - they were more fun.
- Removal of freebie epics. No honor/badge/seal/whatever rewards for running content X number of times. As far as epics go, you get what drops, what's crafted, or pay for those few ultra-rare BoE drops that are sometimes found on the AH.
- NO CROSS-REALM DUNGEON FINDER. That implementation was great for boxing, but terrible for the community. Keep it single-realm ONLY if it must be used. Make people earn a good/bad reputation within their community.
- NO SERVER/FACTION transfers. I really miss this one. Want to play with other friends? Reroll on their server.
- No resiliance. That single addition really screwed over PvE and world-only PvP players. I love PvP, just not in staged BGs and arenas.
- No PvP BG/Arenas. If you want PvP, *world* PvP vanilla style pre-PvP gear. Those were the fun days of WoW.
- No RAF.
- No daily quests. This game shouldn't feel like a job of running the same damn thing repeatedly.
- Double the character slots. 10 was fine for a year. I bought a 2nd account 6 months into WoW's release just to have more variety in characters.
- Open up 3rd skill spec. When I play my paladin, I may want to tank some, heal some, and dps some. Same goes for my druid.
- Pre-endgame crafting still sucks for the most part (as it always has). Make most crafted gear actually usable for the level requirement. Lower all level requirements on crafted gear by at least 5 to see the difference, especially for pre-lvl 60 gear.
I'm really hoping that the WoW2/Titan team talks to some original WoW-release players and gets their opinion on this. I know I'm not alone here on many of these opinions. I'm not alone in my opinion that while they've implemented some good changes, they've implemented many that really killed the community of the game. Many of my opinions could be established based on a server type instead of changing the game.
Call it a hardcore world PvP server. No transfers. No cross-realm BS. No freebie epics. No staged PvP BGs/Arenas. Etc.
Won't happen, even in Titan/WoW2 I'm betting. Blizzard has already shown their hardware/software/implementation can't handle the loads of popular World PVP.Quote:
Originally Posted by -silencer-
And world pvp isn't competitive... It's who can throw more bodies at who.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ughmahedhurtz
And to the OP's original question:
No I wouldn't go back that's not progression. The same content gets old over long periods of time no matter how fun it is in that moment. Nostalgia causes a false sense of "better".
I'm not terribly thrilled with Cata, but atleast it isn't facroll ICC ><
I have been playing since beta but didn't do much until TBC, had my Warrior Smalltanker grinding through normal and heroics to get gear to tank Karazhan. The whole rotation thing was much harder back then with CC required in raid content and heroics. TBC lasted long enough for me to get to 70 a warrior, priest, Shaman (for SSC) and then my paladin tank. The mechanics changed dramatically in there. It went from being a pain to get through Kara to solo-tanking it with little to no CC by the end of TBC with the Paladin tank.
Wrath was fun and I did some limited boxing.
Cata is challenging but doesn't feel epic. I am sitting 9 levels away from max on my Shaman team and have tried a mixed PVE/PVP team unsuccessfully.
I wasn't too impressed with basic-WOW but loved TBC. Wrath had such a great line and beautiful zones. Cata, well it has the water zone.