Restarting - Upgrade PC or New?

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05-02-2011, 01:10 PM
Sturmy

Restarting - Upgrade PC or New?

Hey guys,

Been a long time lurker, and used to box back in TBC. Recently decided I'd like to get back into it, and been trying to catch up on the computer specs needed for a 5Box (WoW) on a single computer.

Currently running on a (crappy):

(Packard Bell iXtreme M3720 Desktop/PC)
CPU: Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q8300 2.50GHz
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 220
Monitor: LG W2243(Analog)
HDD: WDC WD64 00AAKS-22A7B SCSI Disk Device (596 GB)
Memory:DDR2 PC2-5300, DDR2 PC2-6400, DDR2 PC2-8500
Memory Type: DDR2 PC2-5300, DDR2 PC2-6400, DDR2 PC2-8500, DDR2 (non-ECC)
Maximum Memory: 8GB
Currently Installed Memory: 4GB
Total Memory Slots: 2
Available Memory Slots: 0

As you can see, It's pretty bad, used to run ok back in the days, but with cata being all "overgraphiced" very much doubt it'd run at all well with 5 clients. (Bad enough FPS on 1). Running near enough 80% RAM (bloated services atm :P)

So on to my actual question, Is it worth sticking a new graphic card, and bumping the RAM up to 8gigs (Will have to be 2x 4GB as only 2 slots), or really do I want over 8gigs, and as such need to upgrade motherboard, and GPU anyway, so might aswell get a new rig in the first place?

(Also as a side question, I notice "Most" went over to ISboxer, instead of keyclone. But am I right in thinking ISBoxer needs constant access to their servers? So if they're offline you can't use it?)

Thanks
05-02-2011, 01:14 PM
Sajuuk

I would do another build, but if you can get another similar system cheaply, and I mean very cheaply, use two systems to five box.
05-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Sturmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajuuk

I would do another build, but if you can get another similar system cheaply, and I mean very cheaply, use two systems to five box.

Thanks, Only question with that is would that not render features like quick-switches etc unusable? I'm assuming isboxer can't switch between different computers, just windows?

Thanks again
05-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Sajuuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmy

Thanks, Only question with that is would that not render features like quick-switches etc unusable? I'm assuming isboxer can't switch between different computers, just windows?

Thanks again

Yeah, you wouldn't be able to hot-swap windows between computers. There might be some other things, but I'm unsure.
05-02-2011, 02:11 PM
Sturmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajuuk

Yeah, you wouldn't be able to hot-swap windows between computers. There might be some other things, but I'm unsure.

Mmm ok. Will have to take a look at this a bit closer. Any suggestions on minimum specs if I buy a new rig?

Thanks
05-02-2011, 02:24 PM
Ualaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmy

(Also as a side question, I notice "Most" went over to ISboxer, instead of keyclone. But am I right in thinking ISBoxer needs constant access to their servers? So if they're offline you can't use it?)

Thanks

IS Boxer does call home; it seems both when you launch Inner Space and when you use Inner Space to launch your team.
Once in game and playing, their server could be down and it would not impact you.

However, Keyclone also calls home, when you launch the program.
Ditto for KC, once you've launched the program you can continue to use it even if their server goes down.

If either of their servers are down, then neither program can verify your copy is legitimate and neither will let you start to play.
On the plus side, the servers are not down often but in those rare cases when they are... they're brought back up fairly quickly.
05-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Ualaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmy

Mmm ok. Will have to take a look at this a bit closer. Any suggestions on minimum specs if I buy a new rig?

Thanks

If you're doing a system from scratch...

I would go with an i7 2500k or i7 2600k.
Looking at benchmarks, Intel blows AMD away for performance in Warcraft.
Ram is fairly cheap, so I'd probably go with 12GB, but you'd box five toons on 6-8GB easily.
Video won't be a bottleneck, just about any card you can buy new would work.
A solid state drive is a huge boost, it doesn't even have to be that good of an SSD if you're using it purely for the gaming folder.

You could 5-box on an i7 920/930.
But the 2500/2600 systems aren't that much different in price.
And are a massive performance upgrade -- ahead of the i7 980 Extremes processors.
05-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Sturmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ualaa

However, Keyclone also calls home, when you launch the program.
Ditto for KC, once you've launched the program you can continue to use it even if their server goes down.

Ah cool. Didn't realise KC used to do that. Always assumed once a code was registered (as it wasn't a time limit/sub) it was available always.

Thanks!
05-02-2011, 02:58 PM
Sturmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ualaa

If you're doing a system from scratch...

I would go with an i7 2500k or i7 2600k.
Looking at benchmarks, Intel blows AMD away for performance in Warcraft.
Ram is fairly cheap, so I'd probably go with 12GB, but you'd box five toons on 6-8GB easily.
Video won't be a bottleneck, just about any card you can buy new would work.
A solid state drive is a huge boost, it doesn't even have to be that good of an SSD if you're using it purely for the gaming folder.

You could 5-box on an i7 920/930.
But the 2500/2600 systems aren't that much different in price.
And are a massive performance upgrade -- ahead of the i7 980 Extremes processors.

You'll have to excuse my component knowledge :P

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/252535 (Intel Core i7 2600k 3.4GHz Socket 1155 8MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor £237.04)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225415 (OCZ 60GB Vertex 2E SSD 2.5" SATA-II Read = 285MB/s, Write = 275MB/s 50,000 IOPS £96.93) (Either 1 for WoW folder, or 2 for OS + Wow)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/183971 (Western Digital WD20EARS 2TB Hard Drive SATAII 64MB Cache - OEM Caviar Green £64.59)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/255699 (MSI GTX 560 TWIN FROZR II 1GB GDDR5 Dual DVI HDMI Out PCI-E Graphics Card £189.99)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/248759 (Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 1600Mhz CL9 1.5V Non-ECC Unbuffered £164.99)

Not to sure on GPU, Never been one to understand them :P Thinking it's probably overkill for WoW!

Anything majorly stupid I missed, or shouldn't mix from those? (Besides case/power blahblah) Also I know it sounds stupid, but I swear my current monitor doesn't actually have DVI input. Is there any reason not to use VGA converter, or best just look for a screen that does have DVI? (Maybe I'm imagining it, but swear it doesnt :P)

Thanks again
05-02-2011, 04:38 PM
Sajuuk

I think you forgot your motherboard. Otherwise seems fine to me. Maybe get a better SSD. I can't make any recommendation, just look for higher read/write speeds.
05-02-2011, 05:07 PM
d0z3rr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmy

You'll have to excuse my component knowledge :P

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/252535 (Intel Core i7 2600k 3.4GHz Socket 1155 8MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor £237.04)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225415 (OCZ 60GB Vertex 2E SSD 2.5" SATA-II Read = 285MB/s, Write = 275MB/s 50,000 IOPS £96.93) (Either 1 for WoW folder, or 2 for OS + Wow)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/183971 (Western Digital WD20EARS 2TB Hard Drive SATAII 64MB Cache - OEM Caviar Green £64.59)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/255699 (MSI GTX 560 TWIN FROZR II 1GB GDDR5 Dual DVI HDMI Out PCI-E Graphics Card £189.99)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/248759 (Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 1600Mhz CL9 1.5V Non-ECC Unbuffered £164.99)

Not to sure on GPU, Never been one to understand them :P Thinking it's probably overkill for WoW!

Anything majorly stupid I missed, or shouldn't mix from those? (Besides case/power blahblah) Also I know it sounds stupid, but I swear my current monitor doesn't actually have DVI input. Is there any reason not to use VGA converter, or best just look for a screen that does have DVI? (Maybe I'm imagining it, but swear it doesnt :P)

Thanks again

Looks good. You could downgrade the proc to a lower speed and save some money. The i7's overclock very well on air cooling.

You'll definitely want to upgrade to a DVI/HDMI monitor. VGA is terrible.
05-02-2011, 05:29 PM
Sturmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0z3rr

Looks good. You could downgrade the proc to a lower speed and save some money. The i7's overclock very well on air cooling.

You'll definitely want to upgrade to a DVI/HDMI monitor. VGA is terrible.

The i5 2500k is about £100 less, but do you think there will be any noticeable difference?

Thanks
05-02-2011, 05:42 PM
MiRai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmy

The i5 2500k is about £100 less, but do you think there will be any noticeable difference?

Thanks

Probably not unless you're editing/encoding videos or 10+ boxing.
05-02-2011, 09:29 PM
coglistings

ditch your "green drive" they are only green becuase they opperate at lower speeds to get the lower power usage without doing a thing to bost read/write speed, platter density, etc.
05-02-2011, 09:40 PM
coglistings

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmy

The i5 2500k is about £100 less, but do you think there will be any noticeable difference?

Thanks

there was alot of going back and forth in another post between if hyperthreading used in i7's is an advantage over i5's. I think that 4 real cores vs 6 real cores doesn't really come into play at 5 boxing if video settings are limited on slave clients. when 9 boxing on a singular client, the older i7 930 system performed better with hyperthread, than it did with hyperthreading disabled from the bios. but you aren't 10 boxing, so it may be a wash.

personally, I preffer fewer systems on my desk than multiple systems. ISBoxer's experience will be nicer with all of your clients on the same computer just like it was nicer for me to have 5 on one system back in the day, so stay away from multiple computers or running old hardware becuase you cheap out and think you can save a few bucks.

if you personally can't tell the difference between video played over vga vs DVI, then I wouldn't worry about it as you are the person who will be staring at the screen. Though there are some really nice monitor deals out there using better technology if you current monitor only has vga
gl on your setup :P
05-03-2011, 03:51 AM
Sturmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenril

Probably not unless you're editing/encoding videos or 10+ boxing.

Yeah doubt I'll be doing 10box for a long time, Need to get back into 5 first! :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by coglistings

ditch your "green drive" they are only green becuase they opperate at lower speeds to get the lower power usage without doing a thing to bost read/write speed, platter density, etc.

Only reason for that was it was a cheapish 2TB drive, just for random data etc :P But yeah could look at a non-green one if it's much better r/w

Quote:

Originally Posted by coglistings

there was alot of going back and forth in another post between if hyperthreading used in i7's is an advantage over i5's. I think that 4 real cores vs 6 real cores doesn't really come into play at 5 boxing if video settings are limited on slave clients. when 9 boxing on a singular client, the older i7 930 system performed better with hyperthread, than it did with hyperthreading disabled from the bios. but you aren't 10 boxing, so it may be a wash.

personally, I preffer fewer systems on my desk than multiple systems. ISBoxer's experience will be nicer with all of your clients on the same computer just like it was nicer for me to have 5 on one system back in the day, so stay away from multiple computers or running old hardware becuase you cheap out and think you can save a few bucks.

if you personally can't tell the difference between video played over vga vs DVI, then I wouldn't worry about it as you are the person who will be staring at the screen. Though there are some really nice monitor deals out there using better technology if you current monitor only has vga
gl on your setup :P

Yeah certainly think 1 "good" computer seems the way to go. Having multiple may seem logical but if it removes features from ISB seems a waste really.

In terms of VGA/DVI only reason I'm on VGA is I've had this monitor for a while, and for some reason LGs screens seem to miss DVI a lot on the older models. But seemed a waste replacing 22" just for DVI :P But obviously if new card doesn't have VGA makes a difference. No "real" reason for using VGA, just been cheap :D

Think I'll have to try knocking up a full system tonight on ebuyer and see what price it comes to, then decide between i7/i5

Thanks all!
05-07-2011, 12:49 PM
Sturmy

Apologies for the horrid ebay page link, but any thoughts on these systems:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SANDYBRIDGE-CO...item20b8de2a76

(£80 less for a 2500k, and £130 less for 8gb ram)

Main thing I'm not sure on is the graphics cards. Especially seeing it's only 1 dvi out.
And lack of SSD, but guess I could stick one in.

*Edit - or http://www.ebuyer.com/product/264503 but same problems in terms of lack of SSD etc

Or think it's better just to go down the build it yourself?

Just can't decide best way to go :P And don't really want to rush into one, then realise it's not suitable lol

Thanks
05-09-2011, 06:19 AM
alcattle

just to throw in my half quid, a 2500 would be fine for 5 boxing. Those CPU/MB use dual channel so you will want 8 gigs or maybe 16 gigs. I would double the size of your SSD, 60 g is barely enough to hold WoW.